Quote:Just saw this on the homepage. I guess I'm not just imagining the transparency.
Quote:
“Ideally, we want everybody – not just our players, but our fans – to own it,” Bradley said. “To do that, I think you have to be genuine. I think you have to be open and as much as possible, be truthful. We can’t give them ideas who we’re taking with the third pick, but I think as best we can we owe it to our fans.”
(emphasis added)
Those in bold are the operative phrases.
I do not express doubt as to malign the integrity of the Jaguars brass, or for that matter, the OP. I believe on some level they want to be transparent.
But the Jaguars have a vested interest in not saying anything that would tip their hands. To that end, either their words have no real significance as truthful statements, or they are deliberately misleading.
The Atlanta trade debate is interesting- did they cost themselves needed depth and jars on the shelf or did they become more explosive and dangerous with a top playmaker? You could argue either side successfully. Certainly, whoever Cleveland subsequently drafted with the picks is irrelevant (it does appear they wasted them but they are the Browns; had that been Ozzie Newsome and the Ravens, or Seattle, we'd be looking at a dynasty).
I like the transparency of the organization too and agree that Mr. Khan has thus far done everything he said he'd do.
My point was ATL saw a guy who filled a need and went and got him. I don't think anyone would argue Dimitroff is a much better GM than Heckert was and he probably would have chosen better players than Cleveland did. They just didn't see anyone else in that 2011 draft class that was as sure a thing to transition to the next level. Their research said Julio would be a solid player for them and they went and got him based on that. Regardless of what they gave up. Again, i agree having depth is important, but its easier to manufacture depth than it is to acquire true difference makers. Julio has been playing at a top level, barring his injury.
Quote:My point was ATL saw a guy who filled a need and went and got him. I don't think anyone would argue Dimitroff is a much better GM than Heckert was and he probably would have chosen better players than Cleveland did. They just didn't see anyone else in that 2011 draft class that was as sure a thing to transition to the next level. Their research said Julio would be a solid player for them and they went and got him based on that. Regardless of what they gave up. Again, i agree having depth is important, but its easier to manufacture depth than it is to acquire true difference makers. Julio has been playing at a top level, barring his injury.
Truer words have not been typed on this forum.
Quote:Truer words have not been typed on this forum.
There's another viewpoint to that trade too. Yes, they went up and traded a boat load of picks. But one of the criticism isn't just because they traded up for Julio...but they traded it despite Julio's position. The common belief is unless you are getting a once in a generation player, that you typically don't spend that much on a wide receiver. Taking Jones also caused them to pass on two elite pass rushers: JJ Watt and Aldon Smith.
Pass rush is also a big need for the Falcons, which opted to sign expensive veteran pass rushers through Free agency to fill the void. To this date, they are still looking for that stud pass rusher.
The common belief is if you are spending that kind of trade chip, that you better be getting a franchise QB or DE. The Falcons got neither. Julio is good, and he has made that team explosive. But if their FO is that good as we are led to believe, then the better decision would have been to take Watt or Smith with the trade up, and invest in a WR in the later rounds...where quite a few successful WRs are being found.
That is a really good point. Though I don't think anybody expected Watt to be the player he has become at that time or he could have gone #1. For ATL, I think they saw New Orleans was a divisional opponent they were consistently in a shootout with and needed someone besides Roddy White to plug into the offense. Julio became an instant difference maker. They barely missed out on the division title his rookie year and won the division in 2012 (of course Bountygate factored in as well). Brees is a machine. He still threw for 300+ yards against the stout Seattle defense in the playoff game and it could be argued Seattle's defense is in the same discussion as the 2000 Ravens in terms of being elite. Having an elite pass rusher (or more than one) doesn't mean you're going to shut down that offense. Seattle really did a hell of a job that game, especially keeping New Orleans out of the end zone.
Quote:I agree about the lack of endorsement for this QB class. Am I the last one to weigh-in on this subject?
#33
I doubt you're the last. LOL. If I had to read between the lines (for what that's worth) - he seemed to like Bortles, but later than pick #3. He was really non-committal on Bridgewater and Manziel, although in his public Q&A he complimented Bridgwater, but seem concerned with his size. I really think if we go QB at #3 - he's going to sit for a year regardless. Either to get bigger, stronger, more experience or all of the above.
Quote:There's another viewpoint to that trade too. Yes, they went up and traded a boat load of picks. But one of the criticism isn't just because they traded up for Julio...but they traded it despite Julio's position. The common belief is unless you are getting a once in a generation player, that you typically don't spend that much on a wide receiver. Taking Jones also caused them to pass on two elite pass rushers: JJ Watt and Aldon Smith.
Pass rush is also a big need for the Falcons, which opted to sign expensive veteran pass rushers through Free agency to fill the void. To this date, they are still looking for that stud pass rusher.
The common belief is if you are spending that kind of trade chip, that you better be getting a franchise QB or DE. The Falcons got neither. Julio is good, and he has made that team explosive. But if their FO is that good as we are led to believe, then the better decision would have been to take Watt or Smith with the trade up, and invest in a WR in the later rounds...where quite a few successful WRs are being found.
Very good argument, but all things considered, I'm still not sure I fault the Falcons. They already had their young franchise QB. They made a move to provide their young franchise signal callers as many weapons as possible, and they succeeded with Juliio Jones. They saw a guy they liked, traded up to get him, and hit on the pick.
Yes, you could argue they missed out on two pass rushers, but you could argue neither guy fit their scheme (though I wouldn't necessarily be persuaded by that as I think either could play well in a 4-3). Besides, at the end of the day, Atlanta did what many wildly successful teams did-surround their young QB with some explosive playmakers.
Quote:
But the Jaguars have a vested interest in not saying anything that would tip their hands. To that end, either their words have no real significance as truthful statements, or they are deliberately misleading.
The problem I have with this statement is that, to this point, they've talked rather openly about what they would do - and they've done
exactly what they said.
Nonetheless - I understand the need to keep certain information "in house." I just think that the info they choose to reveal is genuine. I'm sure Caldwell isn't above a "smokescreen" if he thought he needed one - but it seems he doesn't right now. I guess we'll know more in a few months.
Quote:Truer words have not been typed on this forum.
Yep. You draft when available. Not when convenient.
I feel the same way about pre-draft information as I do pre-military operation information - I don't want to know anything that compromises my team 's/country's chance of success.
Quote:The problem I have with this statement is that, to this point, they've talked rather openly about what they would do - and they've done exactly what they said.
Nonetheless - I understand the need to keep certain information "in house." I just think that the info they choose to reveal is genuine. I'm sure Caldwell isn't above a "smokescreen" if he thought he needed one - but it seems he doesn't right now. I guess we'll know more in a few months.
To truly be hard to read, you have to tell the truth sometimes and lie sometimes. If you are always lying then you are really easy to read. If you are always telling the truth then you are really easy to read. Have to keep them guessing. Maybe Caldwell was setting things up last year to give them the okie doke this year.
Quote:To truly be hard to read, you have to tell the truth sometimes and lie sometimes. If you are always lying then you are really easy to read. If you are always telling the truth then you are really easy to read. Have to keep them guessing. Maybe Caldwell was setting things up last year to give them the okie doke this year.
Sure - it's possible. But why? If he likes his spot at #3 he takes his guy. If he wants to trade up - he's chummy with the GMs above him. If he wants to trade down he'll be speaking with a handful of GMs to find a partner and there's nothing to conceal. I don't think he has anything to hide.
Quote:Sure - it's possible. But why? If he likes his spot at #3 he takes his guy. If he wants to trade up - he's chummy with the GMs above him. If he wants to trade down he'll be speaking with a handful of GMs to find a partner and there's nothing to conceal. I don't think he has anything to hide.
But that's the thing.
He takes his guy at three ONLY IF HIS GUY IS STILL THERE.
If he tips his hand, a team coveting the same guy can jump ahead of him and take him.
If he wants to trade up, there are two GMs ahead of him in the first round, and one is a division opponent. Being chums with the GM ahead of him is no guarantee the chum will definitely look out for Caldwell's and the Jaguars interests. Is it worth Snead's while to take Jacksonville's offer of a 3rd and 4th to move down one spot over a trade of both of Cleveland's firsts to move down to 4? Would the Browns be more inclined to deal up with the Rams or Texans if they knew the Jaguars were only interested in giving up a 3rd to move up 1? Would the Browns be more inclined to reduce the bid if they erroneously thought the 3rd rounder is the max of what the Jaguars would give up in trade?
There is incentive to be less than forthcoming in these months leading up to the draft.
Quote:
... There is incentive to be less than forthcoming in these months leading up to the draft.
I think you
might be overthinking it a little bit - but I totally understand your (valid) points.
I value the reasons Caldwell may be deceptive or hushed on certain information - but I just hold the opinion that he's being genuine in his most recent discussions of the draft. Should be interesting to look back on in a few months. I guess I'm just going with my gut instinct on the matter and that's been wrong before, so....
I think its easier to be transparent the higher you're drafting....
Quote:Sure - it's possible. But why? If he likes his spot at #3 he takes his guy. If he wants to trade up - he's chummy with the GMs above him. If he wants to trade down he'll be speaking with a handful of GMs to find a partner and there's nothing to conceal. I don't think he has anything to hide.
You're talking about a 10 billion dollar a year industry. Nobody's getting chummy and he has everything to conceal. The draft is a huge poker game, why would anyone tip their hand?
Your posts are typically more informed than this; I'll just assume you're having an off day.
Quote:You're talking about a 10 billion dollar a year industry. Nobody's getting chummy and he has everything to conceal. The draft is a huge poker game, why would anyone tip their hand?
Your posts are typically more informed than this; I'll just assume you're having an off day.
I think you may be misinterpreting my posts. I'm not disillusioned about how the NFL works. First - he has only parceled out bits of information on his intentions and draft philosophy and he hasn't "tipped his hand." I'm not asserting he's going to tell us all who he'd ideally want in the first three rounds. I'm saying that the comments he's made at the fan forum and to the media in recent weeks are likely genuine. And I don't think they are so revealing to "tip his hand."
He's already had dinner with the two GM's above him while at the Senior Bowl. Is that not the definition of "chummy?"
He said he's comfortable at #3 if his guy falls to them and confident he can trade up if he feels he needs to as draft day approaches. I think he's being truthful.
Is that uninformed?