Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:God, are you moronic.

 

Don't forget your tin-foil hat when you go out.

 

I don't care what you say. Keep calling me moronic and wearing tin foil hats as everything I say in that post pans out and Jax isn't successful until the NFL gets what they want and we move to London or LA. Money has ruined the integrity of this sport. The Commissioner might as well be the guy that runs the World Wrestling Federation, because this sport has degenerated into that scripted crap & has lost all integrity. Teams the NFL does not want to be successful won't be. Its all about making the most money for the sport and the small market/ least popular Jacksonville Jaguars won't do that for the NFL. 

 

Back When Pete Rozelle ran this sport, teams like Jacksonville (small market) really did have an honest chance to be as successful as anyone else. Now the only small market teams that are allowed to stay consistently good are the ones with already established traditions (Green Bay/ Pittsburgh) to keep the money train rolling in. 

Quote:I don't care what you say. Keep calling me moronic and wearing tin foil hats as everything I say there pans out and Jax isn't successful until the NFL gets what they want and we move to London or LA. Money has ruined the integrity of this sport. The Commissioner might as well be the guy that runs the World Wrestling Federation, because this sport has degenerated into that scripted crap & has lost all integrity. Teams the NFL does not want to be successful won't be. Its all about making the most money for the sport. 

 

Another gem.  I guess I'm just not one of those sophisticated fans.  

 

     

Quote:Another gem.  I guess I'm just not one of those sophisticated fans.  

 

     

 

Thats fine, you'll be keeping your same mindset as Jax muddles in losing or at best mediocrity until the inevitable move. Because over time, more & more of the fanbase will grow tired of the non success and stop buying tickets, and thats what the NFL is banking on with this plan. Then the Jags will essentially be forced to move. And the NFL will get what they want. And after the Jags move (to one of the locations the NFL WANTS the franchise to move to), just watch how coincidentally the Jags will start to have success. Its all a sham. 

 

Money has ruined this sport. 

I wish Jacksonville could somehow defy the odds and stick it to the NFL with their master plan and win against all this adversity, but some mountains are just too big to climb. 

 

 

 

 

The NFL knows as long as most of the traditional money power franchises keep having success that will keep the sport popular and extremely profitable.

 

Its disgusting and amazing how more people don't see it. 

 

The NFL gave Jax its trial run of success to see how much money THEY (not Jax) could make from a Jaguars success in the late 1990's, well, Jax failed to gain enough popularity for their liking during that experiment and didn't make the NFL enough money so they have been banished to the place they've been in for the last 14 years, and growing......until the inevitable failure and forced move to one of their preferred locations like London or LA. 

 

It just seems to be the way it is. No, I don't want this to happen, and God knows it don't make me happy, but its hard to come to other conclusions when you see how everything just so perfectly sets up for our competition to stay on top. (long term) 

 

Prove me wrong, Goodell. Lets see the Jaguars allowed to have sustained legit success in Jacksonville. 

Wow.

Detroit seems to be another one that the NFL doesn't like. They never seem to be allowed to have sustained success. 

 

How on earth could they on good faith have guys like TOM FRIGGIN CABLE and Todd Bowles as initial candidates for their HC vacancy when a guy like O Brien was available??? It makes zero sense in Detroits current situation which are probably a good head coach away from being a legit SB team. Things always seem to eventually go wrong for Detroit. But I guess I am to believe that its all just coincidence - instead of seeing the reality, that Detroit isn't a big enough cash cow for the NFL and they'd prefer that Traditions and giant more national fan bases $$$$ like the Bears, Packers & Vikings have the long term success over them. 

Quote:Thats fine, you'll be keeping your same mindset as Jax muggles
in losing or at best mediocrity until the inevitable move. Because over time, more & more of the fanbase will grow tired of the non success and stop buying tickets, and thats what the NFL is banking on with this plan. Then the Jags will essentially be forced to move. And the NFL will get what they want. And after the Jags move (to one of the locations the NFL WANTS the franchise to move to), just watch how coincidentally the Jags will start to have success. Its all a sham. 

 

Money has ruined this sport. 

Muggles! I knew it.... They do exist! In J-ville no less!

Quote:I wish Jacksonville could somehow defy the odds and stick it to the NFL with their master plan and win against all this adversity, but some mountains are just too big to climb. 

 

 

 

 

The NFL knows as long as most of the traditional money power franchises keep having success that will keep the sport popular and extremely profitable.

 

Its disgusting and amazing how more people don't see it. 

 

The NFL gave Jax its trial run of success to see how much money THEY (not Jax) could make from a Jaguars success in the late 1990's, well, Jax failed to gain enough popularity for their liking during that experiment and didn't make the NFL enough money so they have been banished to the place they've been in for the last 14 years, and growing......until the inevitable failure and forced move to one of their preferred locations like London or LA. 

 

It just seems to be the way it is. No, I don't want this to happen, and God knows it don't make me happy, but its hard to come to other conclusions when you see how everything just so perfectly sets up for our competition to stay on top. (long term) 

 

Prove me wrong, Goodell. Lets see the Jaguars allowed to have sustained legit success in Jacksonville. 

I have to admit that some calming down might be in order here. Its not like we are talking about the government taking 'sides' on issues (haha, yeah right), the NFL has actual competition, every team is owned by a ridiculously rich guy with his own agenda, who is getting suppressed? 

 

To have a good conspiracy theory you really need people in a position of weakness, getting trampled on by the power elite. NFL team vs. NFL team is not weak getting tromped on by the wealthy/strong, its strong fighting strong, so naturally they don't want to get at it with each other, they would rather just beat up on the little guys. So we have to pay a lot for a rich man's playground in taxes, tickets, etc.

 

And even if we do move (cause the owners will always use that as leverage), Khan doesn't want to end up in LA with a sucky Jags team, so this theory just doesn't have enough legs to stand on. Bullys don't go after Bullys, they pick easy stuff. If the league tried to rig against any one football team they would be in for a heck of a fight, and one they have lost previously to owners like Al Davis. Roger Goodell doesn't want to mess with owners, fans he doesn't care about, but owners will bite.

 

I just don't see this one standing, maybe you need to take some time away from the team TMD, you are making me a little worried with these posts.

Quote:Detroit seems to be another one that the NFL doesn't like. They never seem to be allowed to have sustained success. 

 

How on earth could they on good faith have guys like TOM FRIGGIN CABLE and Todd Bowles as initial candidates for their HC vacancy when a guy like O Brien was available??? It makes zero sense in Detroits current situation which are probably a good head coach away from being a legit SB team. Things always seem to eventually go wrong for Detroit. But I guess I am to believe that its all just coincidence - instead of seeing the reality, that Detroit isn't a big enough cash cow for the NFL and they'd prefer that Traditions and giant more national fan bases $$$$ like the Bears, Packers & Vikings have the long term success over them. 

 

 

  TMD,   in large part we are on a similar page on many topics that can't be discussed on the MB because of the COC.   

 

  Having said that,   I strongly disagree with what you expressed in this post.  

 

  It makes no sense for the NFL to want to reject Detroit.   Look at the success that the Red Wings have had in the last 20 + years.   Four Stanley Cup Championships and six total NHL championships.   Not to mention the longest current streak of consecutive playoff appearances in all of pro sports in North America.   Even in an outdated arena,   the Red Wings are considered a top of the line NHL franchise.   

 

  The Tigers made it to the World Series twice in the last 8 seasons and to the playoffs a number of other times in this time span.   The Tigers have one of the largest payrolls in all of MLB.    The fans have responded to the product and the Tigers have benefited the bottom line of MLB as a result.

 

  The truth of the matter with the Lions is bad decisions have been the primary reason the team only has one playoff win since the 1957 Championship victory.    Despite this,  the Lions never threatened to leave the Detroit area.    On the other hand,  prior to 2008,   the Cardinals had only one playoff win in the same time span.   They moved out of market twice in that time span!    This speaks volumes about the Lions fan base.    It's much larger and passionate than many people realize.   How many franchises in pro sports could have survived without moving with the Lions track record the last 56 seasons???   My guess is VERY few.

 

  If the NFL wanted to hold Detroit down,  they would have taken away the annual Thanksgiving Day game a long time ago.    The NFL embraces the Lions tradition,  that goes back to 1934.

 

 I'm not happy about it but the league selected the Lions as a team to play in London next season.    The reason being,  the league looks at this team as an attractive football product.    You know as well as anyone that the league has made it a top priority to market the NFL product in London.

 

 How do you know that the Lions didn't contact Bill O'Brien?   

 

 Regarding Todd Bowles,  the report was incorrect.   It's possible the Lions will eventually interview Bowles,  as Martin Mayhew and Tom Lewand interviewed him in 2009.   But the person who reported the information earlier this week admitted he had the team mixed up that was expressing interest in Bowles.   Regardless,  why not interview a coach that could provide insight that could benefit the Lions moving forward!  

 

 Many of the candidates that look like potentially good options such as Ken Whisenhunt,  Jay Gruden,  Mike Zimmer,  and Greg Roman can't even be interviewed this week.

 

 If the Lions end up hiring a Head Coach that doesn't meet the standards of the consensus media and fans and ends up failing on top of that,   it won't be the fault of the NFL.   It will be the fault of the Lions organization.    There are legit conspiracy theories that shouldn't even considered conspiracy theories if people were being honest.   But the one you expressed today isn't one of them.

Regarding Tom Cable,  there's a new report from the beat writer on DetroitLions.Com that says the Lions won't be interviewing him for the Head Coach position this year:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ead-coach/

Quote: 

It makes no sense for the NFL to want to reject Detroit.   Look at the success that the Red Wings have had in the last 20 + years.   Four Stanley Cup Championships and six total NHL championships.   Not to mention the longest current streak of consecutive playoff appearances in all of pro sports in North America.   Even in an outdated arena,   the Red Wings are considered a top of the line NHL franchise.   

 

  The Tigers made it to the World Series twice in the last 8 seasons and to the playoffs a number of other times in this time span.   The Tigers have one of the largest payrolls in all of MLB.    The fans have responded to the product and the Tigers have benefited the bottom line of MLB as a result.

 

What do Detroit teams in other sports really have to do with the NFL though? The other sports run their business different than the NFL model. Those other sports don't shun Detroit like the NFL does. The Red Wings and Tigers (and even Pistons) all have tradition and large fan bases nationally (at least more so than the Lions) , too. In the NFL Detroit is in a division with teams that are historically and nationally popular than itself. Those franchises bring the NFL more money than Detroit does. 


 

 

  The truth of the matter with the Lions is bad decisions have been the primary reason the team only has one playoff win since the 1957 Championship victory.    Despite this,  the Lions never threatened to leave the Detroit area.    On the other hand,  prior to 2008,   the Cardinals had only one playoff win in the same time span.   They moved out of market twice in that time span!    This speaks volumes about the Lions fan base.    It's much larger and passionate than many people realize.   How many franchises in pro sports could have survived without moving with the Lions track record the last 56 seasons???   My guess is VERY few.

 

I don't have any issue with the Detroit Lion fans. They support their team well, and deserve better. (Just like the Jacksonville Jaguar fan) 


 

 

  If the NFL wanted to hold Detroit down,  they would have taken away the annual Thanksgiving Day game a long time ago.    The NFL embraces the Lions tradition,  that goes back to 1934.

 

Theres actually been "whispers" of that, but again, Detroit on Thanksgiving is "tradition" so they won't be quick to remove the Lions from it. Desite the Lions not being popular overall on a national scale, people have grown accustomed to watching both Detroit and Dallas on Thanksgiving. 


 

 

 I'm not happy about it but the league selected the Lions as a team to play in London next season.    The reason being,  the league looks at this team as an attractive football product.    You know as well as anyone that the league has made it a top priority to market the NFL product in London.

 

Part of it also is few good teams really want to go there. Its nothing but a huge annoyance/ distraction. 


 

 

 How do you know that the Lions didn't contact Bill O'Brien?   

 

C'mon D6, in todays world of social media, you hear rumors like that almost as soon as theres smoke. The first several names associated with the Detroit coaching search were Bowles, TOM CABLE?!??!?!? and a few others Coordinator types, oh, and Lovie Smith. No mention at all of O Brien. O Brien would have been a fantastic choice for Detroit, and yet incomprehensibly, he wasn't apparently someone they had high priority in contacting. 


 

 Regarding Todd Bowles,  the report was incorrect.   It's possible the Lions will eventually interview Bowles,  as Martin Mayhew and Tom Lewand interviewed him in 2009.   But the person who reported the information earlier this week admitted he had the team mixed up that was expressing interest in Bowles.   Regardless,  why not interview a coach that could provide insight that could benefit the Lions moving forward!  

 

 Many of the candidates that look like potentially good options such as Ken Whisenhunt,  Jay Gruden,  Mike Zimmer,  and Greg Roman can't even be interviewed this week.

 

 If the Lions end up hiring a Head Coach that doesn't meet the standards of the consensus media and fans and ends up failing on top of that,   it won't be the fault of the NFL.   It will be the fault of the Lions organization.    There are legit conspiracy theories that shouldn't even considered conspiracy theories if people were being honest.   But the one you expressed today isn't one of them.

 

You're a good man, D6, I'm more cynical than that than you. The NFL has grown into a multi billion dollar entity, and its now at the point where its trying to do everything it can to maintain/ even grow that popularity (which is unsustainable, of course but greedy minds of the higher ups in NFL won't see that). They know that all they have to keep doing is helping the teams in large markets and/ or large historical / traditional fanbases stay good, or at least not stay down long. The NFL has zero interest, IMO, of having the Jaguars maintain consistent success while in Jacksonville. It simply doesn't help the NFL enough dollarwise to do so. The NFL behind the scenes is trying to starve the Jaguars fan base as it is now and keep the team without success so it eventually gets tired of the losing and will eventually stop going to games, and then force the move to LA or London that they want. Then when that does happen, watch how "coincidentally" the Jaguars will quickly rise as an NFL power, you watch. 

Quote:I think he was the #2 best head coaching prospect out there this offseason, the best being David Shaw from Stanford. 

 

he was never a option though. He made it clear he wanted to stay where he was. Frankly I don't even know why coaches choose to make the jump to the NFL. You get paid just as much coaching major programs (whoever Texas hires to replace Mack will make more than the majority of HCs in the NFL) and you have half the stress.

Quote:Yeah, we saw how well that worked in Tampa.

 

He'll do well because his roster has a lot of good players. How well the franchise maintains the roster will be the key.

 

Tampa also has a lot of talent.. they most likely squeezed one off before they should have.

 

This is where I like McNair's patience.

TMD,  when you get a chance,  take a look at the TV Ratings and Lions merchandise sales during the times when the team is winning or even completive in the standings.  The numbers are going to surprise you.   They are much higher than you apparently believe is the case.

 

If the NFL was truly trying to hold the Lions down,  why then did the last two Madden Covers feature Lions players?    Calvin Johnson was on the cover in 2012.   Barry Sanders was on the cover in 2013.  Did any other NFL team have consecutive players on the Madden cover?  My guess is no.   A team that isn't popular isn't going to be able to accomplish this.

 

The bottom line is if the NFL truly wanted the Lions to remain average or below,   the Thanksgiving Day tradition would have ended.   The league recognizes that this tradition is an important part of the league formula.

 

Teams have no choice regarding going to London.   An owner can beg not to go to London but sooner rather than later,  his team is going to be playing there if the league continues its current business model.

 

If you want to criticize the Lions for not interviewing Bill O'Brien,  the basis that a strong case can be made is the team didn't fire Jim Schwartz after the OT loss to the Giants that eliminated the Lions from the playoffs.    O' Brien probably was too far along in contract negotiations with the Texans to turn in another direction,  as long as the Texans were satisfying his requests.   My guess is privately,  the Lions called O' Brien to try to set up an interview but he said no.   Many things never make it to social media.

 

The Lions are a definition of a historic fan base.   The team has been in the Detroit area for 80 seasons.  How many other franchises have been in the same area for 80 seasons?  

 

If the Lions and Jaguars make good football decisions and don't have the plans derailed by key injuries,  there's no reason to think they can't succeed in their current markets.   Unfortunately for both of us,  our respective teams have made too many mistakes over the years.   The blame shouldn't be placed on the NFL.  

Quote:he was never a option though. He made it clear he wanted to stay where he was. Frankly I don't even know why coaches choose to make the jump to the NFL. You get paid just as much coaching major programs (whoever Texas hires to replace Mack will make more than the majority of HCs in the NFL) and you have half the stress.

 

meh, everyone has a price. I know about Shaw's rhetoric about wanting to stay at Stanford. He may indeed stay at Stanford for the time being. I just refuse to believe that he can't be "got". 

Quote: 

 

 

 

The Lions are a definition of a historic fan base.   The team has been in the Detroit area for 80 seasons.  How many other franchises have been in the same area for 80 seasons?  

 

 

 

 

Its all relative though. 

 

The remaining 3 teams in their division are all more popular than the Lions, and possibly will always be. The other 3 teams, or especially Green Bay and Chicago are much bigger cash cows than the Lions are. 

Quote:meh, everyone has a price. I know about Shaw's rhetoric about wanting to stay at Stanford. 

 

With all the jobs open, I'm pretty sure teams have already pulled that price tag. The Texans alone are about to have to buy out O'Brien's previous contract.  If the man says he wants to stay in the NCAA, I'm going to have to take him at his word and I can't blame him.  Other than winning a SB or reaching the HOF I can't see the plusses of having a NFL HCing job over being a HC of a major Div 1 program.

 

Shaw might get the NFL itch eventually, but the fact that he didn't get it this season wasn't because of a lack of interest or trying. He simply wasn't ready.

edit

Quote:Its all relative though. 

 

The remaining 3 teams in their division are all more popular than the Lions, and possibly will always be. The other 3 teams, or especially Green Bay and Chicago are much bigger cash cows than the Lions are. 

 

 

The other 3 teams have won multiple division titles in the last 20 seasons.   The Lions haven't won any.   The Packers won 2 Super Bowls and got to a 3rd in this time span.    The Bears got to one Super Bowl.

 

If the Lions would have had the success even close to the other 3 teams,  the Lions would be generating loads of cash.  Ranking very high on the list of NFL teams.   How can you expect the Lions to generate the amount of cash the Packers are being that the Lions haven't won in the state of Wisconsin since 1991?   The Jaguars weren't even a thought the last time the Lions won in the Badger State.   That illustrates the Lions situation as well as anything.   

 

Back in the early 1990's,   the New England Patriots were at or near the bottom of the money making and overall NFL totem pole.   You couldn't find Patriots merchandise in the mall nearest to their Training Camp at Bryant College in Smithfield, R.I.    The team was close to moving to St. Louis.   Everything changed when Bob Kraft bought the team.   The Patriots went from being a distant 4th on the Boston sports landscape to being right up there with the Red Sox as the most popular team in the Boston area.   Today  the Patriots are considered a model franchise.  

 

 Despite the Lions record this century,   the Lions have much more local and national popularity than the Patriots did in the early 1990's.   It also shows the potential this franchise has.

D6, just so you realize, I'm not "anti-Detroit". I'd love to see teams like them & Jacksonville, and even Cleveland, have some consistent success for a change.  I just don't see the NFL allowing it to happen anytime soon - for some of the reasons already stated.