Quote:You don't think there have ever been quarterbacks who's flaws were disguised by weak competition and/or offensive system? Then were exposed by individual workouts and interviews?
Is this your first year following the draft?
I asked for an example of a quarterback THAT incompetent during the evaluation process who had ever been good enough to earn first-round consideration in the first place. Every spread offense has three and five-step drops in it, and that prospect in specific would already be dealing with a ton of red flags due to his background. Your hypothetical was extreme and inapplicable as usual.
I thought you were done with these ever since you stopped lobbying so hard for Clowney.
The example was to show that there are QB traits that can be disguised by what we see during the season. Once again, I will point to Nate Davis who was largely considered a 1st/2nd round pick at the end of the season. After his terrible combine, his stock dropped faster than a Miley Cyrus approval rating.
The point is, the combine absolutely serves a purpose. Will my opinion on Teddy Bridgewater change based on the combine? No. I want him as our QB. However, there are a handful of QBs with questions marks and some of those questions can be confirmed or denied based on the combine.
Raw players who are considered developmental projects absolutely need to have their mental understanding of the game examined by scouts and front offices, yes. The Nate Davises and Logan Thomases of the world are almost never called franchise quarterbacks during the fall for this exact reason (although I don't remember Nate Davis ever getting first-round grades); they're treated cautiously while terms like "upside" and "ceiling" get thrown around a lot by people interested in their highlights. This isn't the same thing as jumping bandwagons and changing their minds about a prospect before and after they play a single opponent. JaMarcus Russell vs. Notre Dame is the most damning example, but Mariota vs. Stanford was glaring on this board. If they had paid attention, they would know that Russell was capable of shredding a crappy and outmatched Irish defense and Mariota can struggle when forced to stay in the pocket.
Quote:Raw players who are considered developmental projects absolutely need to have their mental understanding of the game examined by scouts and front offices, yes. The Nate Davises and Logan Thomases of the world are almost never called franchise quarterbacks during the fall for this exact reason (although I don't remember Nate Davis ever getting first-round grades); they're treated cautiously while terms like "upside" and "ceiling" get thrown around a lot by people interested in their highlights. This isn't the same thing as jumping bandwagons and changing their minds about a prospect before and after they play a single opponent. JaMarcus Russell vs. Notre Dame is the most damning example, but Mariota vs. Stanford was glaring on this board. If they had paid attention, they would know that Russell was capable of shredding a crappy and outmatched Irish defense and Mariota can struggle when forced to stay in the pocket.
So you agree that we can change our minds on guys that are considered projects?
so johnny football, did he hurt his draft stock with that game? will the combine/proday help/hurt him? i still have him in the top of the 2nd
Quote:so johnny football, did he hurt his draft stock with that game? will the combine/proday help/hurt him? i still have him in the top of the 2nd
1. To us and the media...yes. To the teams no they are still in compiling data mode, they don't even start putting evaluations and grades on players until after the entire regular season.
2. Manziel's stock actually will be affected by pro days more than most. Interviews will be important because of all of his off the field issues and on field attitude/showboating. Also, his real height will matter a lot as will hand size. And finally his medicals for the hurt shoulder and maybe the knee too. Finally, the whiteboard sessions will matter because he hasn't shown to be very good in the decision making department and teams will want to know if that's because of his playstyle, or if he legit just doesn't know football in depth or has slow mental processing like Tebow.
The workouts/throwing exercises though...nah those don't affect players stock much.
Quote:1. To us and the media...yes. To the teams no they are still in compiling data mode, they don't even start putting evaluations and grades on players until after the entire regular season.
2. Manziel's stock actually will be affected by pro days more than most. Interviews will be important because of all of his off the field issues and on field attitude/showboating. Also, his real height will matter a lot as will hand size. And finally his medicals for the hurt shoulder and maybe the knee too. Finally, the whiteboard sessions will matter because he hasn't shown to be very good in the decision making department and teams will want to know if that's because of his playstyle, or if he legit just doesn't know football in depth or has slow mental processing like Tebow.
The workouts/throwing exercises though...nah those don't affect players stock much.
Thank you. I'm glad not everyone things pro-days and the Combine are pointless. Draft stock changes so much between January and April.
Quote:Thank you. I'm glad not everyone things pro-days and the Combine are pointless. Draft stock changes so much between January and April.
Parts do, parts don't. The physical stuff that you can see most all of exemplified on tape is way overrated...teams don't care nearly as much as fans/media when it comes to 40 time, broad jump, bench press, etc because you can tell if a player has those traits already on tape. The medicals and interviews are important though...especially for people like Manziel.
Lol way underthrown on a wide open receiver
Any way to watch this online? I'd like to see JF and Michael Sam.
Quote:Any way to watch this online? I'd like to see JF and Michael Sam.
It's on ESPN here in cali
Quote:It's on ESPN here in cali
Welp. I wish I was in Cali, haha.
Quote:Are links banned here?
Nevermind man I got it online. Thanks though.
Great throw with a defender in his face
Typical Manziel. Scrambling and gunslinging. His style exposes him and his small frame to too much contact as well as errant throws. His personal attitude is not what you want from a franchise QB but he makes plays.
He's like a Brett Favre with wheels and swag.