Quote:Agreed. But Caldwell has made some questionable moves. Not getting a RT in a strong RT free agency and also seems like he traded Monroe without really testing the market. I think you can reasonably criticize him for some moves up to this point. I'm willing to give 2-3 years depending on how next years draft and free agency goes.
It's only questionable if you have some crystal ball that can tell us what's going to happen a year from now, and it's bad news. None of the moves Caldwell has made are really questionable at this point. They weren't going to be active in free agency this year, and they made that pretty clear from the very start.
And this trading Monroe without testing the market thing is becoming comical. They weren't dangling him in trade to test the market. Baltimore came to them with an offer. Because Cleveland supposedly offered a 2nd day pick (it's been debunked by the guy covering the Jags, but that's disregarded because it doesn't support the agenda here), and we got 2 picks from Baltimore that weren't 2nd day picks, that's questionable? How about we once again wait to see how those extra picks are used before we question some fantasy scenario that may or may not have been true?
I'm sure he'll send you a thank you note for giving him 2-3 years if he drafts to your liking in May.
Quote:Again, either you're just woefully ignorant, or you've chosen to ignore facts. Which is it?
The front office has been clear that they're building through the draft. Never once mentioned building through free agency, or using it to turn things around quickly because that's not the approach they've chosen.
Once again, the narcissist in you is popping out. Nobody is asking you do to anything against your will. They're not holding a gun to your head and forcing you to do anything. So, if you don't like it, you're more than welcome to find another team that does things the way you prefer. I can assure you, we'd hardly notice the departure.
Yes, it's pathetic to allow someone opportunity to prove themselves to be effective or not. It's far less pathetic to pre-judge someone before you've actually had a chance to view the end product.
Premature is probably a word used quite often where you're concerned based on how you whine around here.
1. The front office is saying 2 things. 1. they want to build this into a successful team and 2. They want to change the culture of this team. You can't preach that with the product they are putting on the field. I never heard the team say they won't spend in "FA. The jags have very few fans and can use every one they can get trust me on that one.
2. I never said it was pathetic to give Caldwell a chance. I don't have to wait it out like we did with Gene Smith to see if a train wreck is coming or not. It's too early to tell either way. There is such a thing as being to patient and this team should know that by now
3. My track record and so called "whining" has been right much more then your "wait X amount of years" and see what happens crap. This team needs a quick turn around. Your almost always wrong so I know you are use to it by now.
Quote:I don't necessarily disagree with the above, but it isn't like the naysayers have been wrong the last 6 years. Those who have hated all the moves up to this point have been more right then those who have defended this franchise up to this point.
That's true -- but I think a little patience is always warranted.
That goes for
both sides.
With Gene Smith you had the "IN GENE WE TRUST" squad who defended every move he made. Alualu? Great pick! You find talent where you find talent. Gabbert needs time to develop, he needs an o-line, he needs receivers, it's the coaching staff. Gene needs more time. Cox is really great, but he's always injured. Our defense just really needs to get healthy. This team is CLOSE.
And then you have the "INCOMPETENCE INC" squad who attack every move a GM makes. Monroe? WE JUST GOT TWO LATE ROUND PICKS?! Did we really take an LT in the first? SMH This team is going nowhere.
Fans can and should discuss the moves, and if they think they're good or not (that's why we have this board after all, I should think). Fans shouldn't however be quick to judge Caldwell. Already I've seen people say he's worse than Gene Smith. You may not agree with his moves, but if they get results then it won't matter.
Quote:You admitted you don't know if Caldwell is the guy to turn things around. Clearly you're not smart enough to recognize that you're basically agreeing with my point about being patient. I'd try to post this in Crayola to allow you to grasp the concept, but it's far more entertaining to watch you repeatedly show the world just how clueless you are. Keep flailing.
Ignorance is bliss I guess but in your point it's all the time.
I'm not going to preach be patient and not act like anyone should not be concerned with the state of this team. Caldwell hasn't had enough time but if it does not get better we could be looking at another failure here. Although I'm strating to think you like failure.
Quote:I don't necessarily disagree with the above, but it isn't like the naysayers have been wrong the last 6 years. Those who have hated all the moves up to this point have been more right then those who have defended this franchise up to this point.
Bingo.
It's the posters who were wrong who stoop to the name calling. We know who those posters are
Quote:1. The front office is saying 2 things. 1. they want to build this into a successful team and 2. They want to change the culture of this team. You can't preach that with the product they are putting on the field. I never heard the team say they won't spend in "FA. The jags have very few fans and can use every one they can get trust me on that one.
2. I never said it was pathetic to give Caldwell a chance. I don't have to wait it out like we did with Gene Smith to see if a train wreck is coming or not. It's too early to tell either way. There is such a thing as being to patient and this team should know that by now
3. My track record and so called "whining" has been right much more then your "wait X amount of years" and see what happens crap. This team needs a quick turn around. Your almost always wrong so I know you are use to it by now.
Once again, those words are confusing you. The front office isn't saying 2 different things. You're just opting to ignore what they're actually saying, and trying to interpret it in a way that allows you to do what you usually do. You fully expose your ignorance because you use the word they've used repeatedly. They're BUILDING something. Maybe in your little fantasy world, when someone BUILDS something, it's instantly done the minute they start the foundation. In the real world where people with functional IQs reside, building something, especially something of quality, takes time and patience. It's not rocket science they're preaching here, yet you seem to struggle to grasp the concept.
Part of changing the culture of the team includes not overspending on overhyped free agents with names you recognize. Eventually you'll figure that out, but it may take a while.
No, you said it's pathetic to preach patience. So, when someone says you've got to give Caldwell time to allow his philosophy to take hold, that's preaching patience, which according to you is pathetic. I know, confusing, but you're not terribly bright.
Let's see if I've got this straight. Your premature judgment of any situation has been more right than my position of not judging something until we've seen the end results? So, if in the end after watching the process unfold, I come to the conclusion this isn't a good path we're headed down, I'm wrong because I agreed with you after allowing the evidence to mount? Being first doesn't make you more right. It just makes you look foolish if you turn out to be wrong. You get that, right? Probably not.
Quote:It's only questionable if you have some crystal ball that can tell us what's going to happen a year from now, and it's bad news. None of the moves Caldwell has made are really questionable at this point. They weren't going to be active in free agency this year, and they made that pretty clear from the very start.
And this trading Monroe without testing the market thing is becoming comical. They weren't dangling him in trade to test the market. Baltimore came to them with an offer. Because Cleveland supposedly offered a 2nd day pick (it's been debunked by the guy covering the Jags, but that's disregarded because it doesn't support the agenda here), and we got 2 picks from Baltimore that weren't 2nd day picks, that's questionable? How about we once again wait to see how those extra picks are used before we question some fantasy scenario that may or may not have been true?
I'm sure he'll send you a thank you note for giving him 2-3 years if he drafts to your liking in May.
You mean that the media isn't 100% accurate? What foolishness is this? Of course the media was privy to every last negotiation for the Jags and their players. They wouldn't lie to us!!!!
Plus, a savvy GM wouldn't use the media to spin things one way or the other. And if one wouldn't do it, none of the others would do it, right?
You homers need to stop sticking up for every move that the Jags make...
Quote:Bingo.
It's the posters who were wrong who stoop to the name calling. We know who those posters are
So, waiting for the outcome to unfold is wrong? You're really not too bright.
Let me ask you this, genius. Since you're so right so often, did whining like a jilted school girl accelerate the process one bit, or did the process have to play itself out first?
Quote:A couple of tweets from various writers doesn't tell the whole tale. I think it's silly to think that you know how it went down.
I'll wait to criticize.
I don't, but we do know it moved very quickly. Caldwell said as much. So, I question why we rushed to trade him and it makes me think we may not have tested the market properly. All any of us can do is use information we have.
Quote:Do you honestly think you have ANY influence over what the team is going to do by your posts on this forum? If so, TMD's ego needs to make room for another delusional fan.
You don't like Dakota's position, so it's wrong. In actuality, he's being a realistic fan, and you're being a narcissistic buffoon.
Says the guy with 46 THOUSAND posts.
One former mod is realistic and MVP is a narcissist.
Whew. Le pot hollerin at le kettle. Maybe the B in FBT stands for " buffoon" . It matches your incessant name calling and I'm right you're wrong " narcissism"
Quote:Ignorance is bliss I guess but in your point it's all the time.
I'm not going to preach be patient and not act like anyone should not be concerned with the state of this team. Caldwell hasn't had enough time but if it does not get better we could be looking at another failure here. Although I'm strating to think you like failure.
All that concern did what exactly?
So, once again, you're preaching the very thing you call pathetic, but you're not smart enough to recognize what you're doing. I guess the world needs people like you. How else will my lawn get mowed?
I'm not sure what strating is, but I'll put my life situation up against yours any time and I'm fairly certain we'll see who would probably be deemed a failure, and who would not.
Quote:It's irrelevant who was ultimately right. You still have to allow things to play themselves out before you can judge whether one GM or coach is right or not. You can't simply start out demanding he satisfy your wants as a fan on a message board, and if he doesn't, you'll howl constantly that he should be fired.
People who expected this team to be any better than it has been, and they're already trying to portray the coach or GM as being on the hot seat don't have the football IQ to recognize what they inherited, or what their approach is to fixing what ails this franchise. All they know how to do is complain regardless of what move is made. They refuse to allow something to work itself out to an ultimate conclusion. What if Caldwell's approach gives us 7-9 wins next year, and a playoff berth in year 3? Those same naysayers will continue to complain.
And about those naysayers. They crucified Shack Harris, but the team had 2 playoff appearances during his tenure, so he wasn't necessarily as bad as some here tried to portray him to be. When he was fired, many of them actually celebrated the promotion of Gene Smith. That turned out to be a terrible decision because the guy was a great scout, but not equipped to be the person making all the decisions.
We don't know what we've got yet with Caldwell. Time will tell. But, the one thing that will remain consistent regardless of whether he's successful or not is that the vast majority of the naysayers will continue to find things to complain about because that's just who they are. They use complaining to draw attention to themselves. Anyone who exudes a positive attitude, or preaches patience is labeled a homer.
It's irrelevant who was right? Only the wrong people can say that with a straight face
I didn't see everybody against shack harrid
You always don't have to wait the whole process to see if a plan is working or not. Sometimes it's easy to see failure coming
Caldwell is still early so he gets a pass. It is a bad start to be putting out the worst team in the modern era on the field
Quote:It's irrelevant who was ultimately right. You still have to allow things to play themselves out before you can judge whether one GM or coach is right or not. You can't simply start out demanding he satisfy your wants as a fan on a message board, and if he doesn't, you'll howl constantly that he should be fired.
People who expected this team to be any better than it has been, and they're already trying to portray the coach or GM as being on the hot seat don't have the football IQ to recognize what they inherited, or what their approach is to fixing what ails this franchise. All they know how to do is complain regardless of what move is made. They refuse to allow something to work itself out to an ultimate conclusion. What if Caldwell's approach gives us 7-9 wins next year, and a playoff berth in year 3? Those same naysayers will continue to complain.
And about those naysayers. They crucified Shack Harris, but the team had 2 playoff appearances during his tenure, so he wasn't necessarily as bad as some here tried to portray him to be. When he was fired, many of them actually celebrated the promotion of Gene Smith. That turned out to be a terrible decision because the guy was a great scout, but not equipped to be the person making all the decisions.
We don't know what we've got yet with Caldwell. Time will tell. But, the one thing that will remain consistent regardless of whether he's successful or not is that the vast majority of the naysayers will continue to find things to complain about because that's just who they are. They use complaining to draw attention to themselves. Anyone who exudes a positive attitude, or preaches patience is labeled a homer.
Some yes, but there are some who rightfully criticized the last couple of regimes. They questioned things that were questionable. I mean, we had posters vehemently defending us drafting a punter in the 3rd round so in some sense, there are people who are overly crazy the other way. They'll defend anything this regime does. Isn't that just as bad?
FBT, do you think there are any moves worth criticizing Caldwell for up to this point?
Quote:I don't, but we do know it moved very quickly. Caldwell said as much. So, I question why we rushed to trade him and it makes me think we may not have tested the market properly. All any of us can do is use information we have.
They didn't rush. They got an offer and agreed to the terms.
I'd be more concerned if they weren't dangling him for trade, then suddenly decided after receiving a call to start calling other teams trying to up the ante. If the trade was reasonable (it was) for both teams, and the Jags had no intention of extending him (that seems pretty clear since they didn't balk at the trade offer), I'm struggling to see how this is a bad thing. Even more interesting is the fact that most of the national media types actually lauded the move. It's just Jag fans who somehow thing the team got hoodwinked because of some outlier report indicating Cleveland was willing to give up a 2nd day pick.
Quote:All any of us can do is use information we have.
It's a slippery slope when you only have a small sliver of information - and you form conclusions with it. I have expressed my concern over the value received for Monroe in other threads - but when I consider all of the unknowns and what I
do know about Caldwell - I don't feel right criticizing the deal. I question it. It's fine to feel otherwise - but neither of us really know.
Quote:It's irrelevant who was right? Only the wrong people can say that with a straight face
I didn't see everybody against shack harrid
You always don't have to wait the whole process to see if a plan is working or not. Sometimes it's easy to see failure coming
Caldwell is still early so he gets a pass. It is a bad start to be putting out the worst team in the modern era on the field
Again, words really confuse you.
It's irrelevant because in the end, we all arrived at the same conclusion. The fact that you were quick didn't change a stinking thing, did it?
Now you're just flat out lying. Shack Harris was just as despised by you and the rest of your premature gang almost from the start.
You always don't? Yeah, ya do. You have no idea what's going to happen from one year to the next with a team.
So, you're preaching patience with Caldwell. So, you agree with me.
Quote:So, waiting for the outcome to unfold is wrong? You're really not too bright.
Let me ask you this, genius. Since you're so right so often, did whining like a jilted school girl accelerate the process one bit, or did the process have to play itself out first?
Again. You always dont' have to wait for a plan to come to fruttion to realize it's not working.
Will you ever be smart enough to realize that? Your like a robot that follows a plan to the teeth.
Again plans do change if the results aren't there.
Quote:It's only questionable if you have some crystal ball that can tell us what's going to happen a year from now, and it's bad news. None of the moves Caldwell has made are really questionable at this point. They weren't going to be active in free agency this year, and they made that pretty clear from the very start.
And this trading Monroe without testing the market thing is becoming comical. They weren't dangling him in trade to test the market. Baltimore came to them with an offer. Because Cleveland supposedly offered a 2nd day pick (it's been debunked by the guy covering the Jags, but that's disregarded because it doesn't support the agenda here), and we got 2 picks from Baltimore that weren't 2nd day picks, that's questionable? How about we once again wait to see how those extra picks are used before we question some fantasy scenario that may or may not have been true?
I'm sure he'll send you a thank you note for giving him 2-3 years if he drafts to your liking in May.
Just because they made it clear about free agency, does make it the right move. For a team that needed a RT it seemed like a no brainer to get a young one in free agency that you could still build with in the future. Doesn't mean my criticism is right or wrong, but it is worthy of discussion.
Also, the Monroe trade is very questionable. What we do know is it went down very quickly and Caldwell traded to a team he had a relationship with. I think questioning whether he tested the market properly is reasonable based on what we know. If he traded him in a matter of 2 days (as it seems they did based on Caldwell's own words) you don't question that at all?
And I'm sure he won't. I would prefer to have debates on this forum. It's okay to disagree with others and present valid arguments. Unfortunately, most things here resort to grade school behavior.
I may question some of his picks. If I do though, I'll at least back it up with my reasons why. Too often we lump posters who yell our GM's terrible with posters who lay out a argument for their criticism.
Quote:Again. You always dont' have to wait for a plan to come to fruttion to realize it's not working.
So Caldwell's plan to build through the draft isn't working after one draft. Gotcha. I still think you don't grasp the concept of "build through the draft."
You can't fix it in one year.
Quote:They didn't rush. They got an offer and agreed to the terms.
I'd be more concerned if they weren't dangling him for trade, then suddenly decided after receiving a call to start calling other teams trying to up the ante. If the trade was reasonable (it was) for both teams, and the Jags had no intention of extending him (that seems pretty clear since they didn't balk at the trade offer), I'm struggling to see how this is a bad thing. Even more interesting is the fact that most of the national media types actually lauded the move. It's just Jag fans who somehow thing the team got hoodwinked because of some outlier report indicating Cleveland was willing to give up a 2nd day pick.
So you are saying they didn't test the market, correct? That doesn't concern you? Isn't his job to get as much as he can in a trade? It is a bad thing if we could have gotten more for him. How do you know what the market is if you don't test it? We may disagree here which is fine, but you don't think it was a questionable move at all?