Quote:Some yes, but there are some who rightfully criticized the last couple of regimes. They questioned things that were questionable. I mean, we had posters vehemently defending us drafting a punter in the 3rd round so in some sense, there are people who are overly crazy the other way. They'll defend anything this regime does. Isn't that just as bad?
FBT, do you think there are any moves worth criticizing Caldwell for up to this point?
I didn't particularly like the Monroe trade initially, but once we got the full detail about why the trade was made, I felt it wasn't worth stressing over. We'll see what the team does with the extra draft picks they acquired. At that point, it'll be a lot easier to determine if it was a good move or not.
I thought the team had a solid draft. So did the experts apparently. Unlike some here who are now complaining we didn't burn a 2nd rounder for Geno because he's doing okay in NY, I thought the approach they took was the right one. They recognized the QB talent in the draft wasn't very good, so they focused on areas where they could improve this team. I think they did a good job based on what was available in identifying talent that will help this team over the long haul.
It didn't bother me one bit that they weren't going after big ticket free agents because I recognized they were not using that as their vehicle to rebuild this team. This year was never about a quick turnaround, so staying out of the expensive free agent market, and allowing older, expensive players who didn't fit with what they wanted to do long term wasn't an issue for me.
The only move he made that I really never agreed with was letting Daryl Smith walk in free agency. Especially after he lingered for a while, I figured the team would make a move to bring him back. I understood why they felt they needed to move on, but I also thought he was productive enough, and reliable enough to be of some use to this team. Aside from that, the other moves were completely understandable.
Quote:Again, words really confuse you.
It's irrelevant because in the end, we all arrived at the same conclusion. The fact that you were quick didn't change a stinking thing, did it?
Now you're just flat out lying. Shack Harris was just as despised by you and the rest of your premature gang almost from the start.
You always don't? Yeah, ya do. You have no idea what's going to happen from one year to the next with a team.
So, you're preaching patience with Caldwell. So, you agree with me.
After reading I 100% agreeing with you.
jaguarsmvp just need to find another team that does on what he believes in. LOL....He stated that Geno was draft in the 3rd round gives me the impression that he dosent really no anything.
Quote:Again, words really confuse you.
It's irrelevant because in the end, we all arrived at the same conclusion. The fact that you were quick didn't change a stinking thing, did it?
Now you're just flat out lying. Shack Harris was just as despised by you and the rest of your premature gang almost from the start.
You always don't? Yeah, ya do. You have no idea what's going to happen from one year to the next with a team.
So, you're preaching patience with Caldwell. So, you agree with me.
Let me explain this to you really simply.
You want to seem like your intelligent. You even call people names and assume they are lesser then you with almost every post that you right. You degrade people by calling them gardner, fast food worker, stupid, etc.
Most of the posters you insult have a much better record than you predicting if the team is doing well or not. Those posters opinions should mean much more then some internet bully who goes on a forum and tries their best to belittle people.
Your a joke as a poster and a joke as a mod. Whoever gave you mod status on the board should be fired or demoted because you are by far one of the worst posters I have ever seen on any message board.
I am not preaching patience with Caldwell. This is his first year and nobody works that fast. I am saying if by next season there is not big improvement then we maybe looking for another GM by year 3. I don't have to wait for a 20 year plan to finish if the plan is dumping after 8 years.
Quote:Again. You always dont' have to wait for a plan to come to fruttion to realize it's not working.
Will you ever be smart enough to realize that? Your like a robot that follows a plan to the teeth.
Again plans do change if the results aren't there.
Plans do change, and they changed each year under the previous GM. He just made poor decisions when he decided to change direction. Still, you don't have a crystal ball to know for certain that these things won't work. That's what you don't seem to grasp. It's really confusing for you to understand you have to let things play out. Nobody is saying you have to let them completely play themselves out, but you have to allow them to progress to the point where you know if it's right or wrong.
You think you're this great football mind. What do you do for a living? Does it include a name tag on your shirt? Why aren't you working for an NFL franchise bestowing upon them all your premature knowledge?
Quote:Let me explain this to you really simply.
You want to seem like your intelligent. You even call people names and assume they are lesser then you with almost every post that you right. You degrade people by calling them gardner, fast food worker, stupid, etc.
Most of the posters you insult have a much better record than you predicting if the team is doing well or not. Those posters opinions should mean much more then some internet bully who goes on a forum and tries their best to belittle people.
Your a joke as a poster and a joke as a mod. Whoever gave you mod status on the board should be fired or demoted because you are by far one of the worst posters I have ever seen on any message board.
I am not preaching patience with Caldwell. This is his first year and nobody works that fast. I am saying if by next season there is not big improvement then we maybe looking for another GM by year 3. I don't have to wait for a 20 year plan to finish if the plan is dumping after 8 years.
*** snickers a lot more ***
Quote:So Caldwell's plan to build through the draft isn't working after one draft. Gotcha. I still think you don't grasp the concept of "build through the draft."
You can't fix it in one year.
I dont' recall me saying that, I see you putting words in my mouth.
I want to see steady improvement and so far there has been 0 with no help on the way
Quote:So you are saying they didn't test the market, correct? That doesn't concern you? Isn't his job to get as much as he can in a trade? It is a bad thing if we could have gotten more for him. How do you know what the market is if you don't test it? We may disagree here which is fine, but you don't think it was a questionable move at all?
I'm saying they didn't need to test the market. I'm fairly certain the GMs of 2 NFL franchises understood the value of the deal. If it was reasonable to both, there was no reason not to pull the trigger. The Jags got additional draft picks, and the Ravens rented an OT for the rest of the season.
If a team approaches you with a trade offer for a player you're not shopping, and you want to have any future dealings with other teams down the road, you don't take a fair deal and turn around and start making calls to other teams hoping to get a better deal. If it's reasonable, and both sides feel they'll benefit from the arrangement, make it happen. That good faith will pay off down the road.
No, I don't think it was a questionable move at all. I think I've made that abundantly clear based on the details we do know about the deal.
This thread. It's goin places.
Quote:Let me explain this to you really simply.
You want to seem like your intelligent. You even call people names and assume they are lesser then you with almost every post that you right. You degrade people by calling them gardner, fast food worker, stupid, etc.
Most of the posters you insult have a much better record than you predicting if the team is doing well or not. Those posters opinions should mean much more then some internet bully who goes on a forum and tries their best to belittle people.
Your a joke as a poster and a joke as a mod. Whoever gave you mod status on the board should be fired or demoted because you are by far one of the worst posters I have ever seen on any message board.
I am not preaching patience with Caldwell. This is his first year and nobody works that fast. I am saying if by next season there is not big improvement then we maybe looking for another GM by year 3. I don't have to wait for a 20 year plan to finish if the plan is dumping after 8 years.
Haha..LOL you need to read everything you posted. You do not have any knowledge but your ignorance. Stop it...Just find another team.
Quote:This thread. It's goin places.
Yeah. Straight down the commode. I'm riding it down though....
Quote:Let me explain this to you really simply.
You want to seem like your intelligent. You even call people names and assume they are lesser then you with almost every post that you right. You degrade people by calling them gardner, fast food worker, stupid, etc.
Most of the posters you insult have a much better record than you predicting if the team is doing well or not. Those posters opinions should mean much more then some internet bully who goes on a forum and tries their best to belittle people.
Your a joke as a poster and a joke as a mod. Whoever gave you mod status on the board should be fired or demoted because you are by far one of the worst posters I have ever seen on any message board.
I am not preaching patience with Caldwell. This is his first year and nobody works that fast. I am saying if by next season there is not big improvement then we maybe looking for another GM by year 3. I don't have to wait for a 20 year plan to finish if the plan is dumping after 8 years.
I don't really need to degrade you or call out your lack of intellect. You do a superb job on your own.
You said it's too soon to judge Caldwell. I know this is really leaving you in a state of confusion, but when you say that it's too soon to judge him, you're saying he needs more time.
Do you even know what the word patience means? If not, I'd suggest checking a dictionary, but it's clear you don't have one.
Quote:Plans do change, and they changed each year under the previous GM. He just made poor decisions when he decided to change direction. Still, you don't have a crystal ball to know for certain that these things won't work. That's what you don't seem to grasp. It's really confusing for you to understand you have to let things play out. Nobody is saying you have to let them completely play themselves out, but you have to allow them to progress to the point where you know if it's right or wrong.
You think you're this great football mind. What do you do for a living? Does it include a name tag on your shirt? Why aren't you working for an NFL franchise bestowing upon them all your premature knowledge?
I just know my football mind is much greater then yours
What do you do for a living? Does it involve a toilet brush and dirty overalls?
Quote:I didn't particularly like the Monroe trade initially, but once we got the full detail about why the trade was made, I felt it wasn't worth stressing over. We'll see what the team does with the extra draft picks they acquired. At that point, it'll be a lot easier to determine if it was a good move or not.
I thought the team had a solid draft. So did the experts apparently. Unlike some here who are now complaining we didn't burn a 2nd rounder for Geno because he's doing okay in NY, I thought the approach they took was the right one. They recognized the QB talent in the draft wasn't very good, so they focused on areas where they could improve this team. I think they did a good job based on what was available in identifying talent that will help this team over the long haul.
It didn't bother me one bit that they weren't going after big ticket free agents because I recognized they were not using that as their vehicle to rebuild this team. This year was never about a quick turnaround, so staying out of the expensive free agent market, and allowing older, expensive players who didn't fit with what they wanted to do long term wasn't an issue for me.
The only move he made that I really never agreed with was letting Daryl Smith walk in free agency. Especially after he lingered for a while, I figured the team would make a move to bring him back. I understood why they felt they needed to move on, but I also thought he was productive enough, and reliable enough to be of some use to this team. Aside from that, the other moves were completely understandable.
I'm not stressing over it, I'm just saying it was worthy of discussion. I'm not happy with what they got for Monroe and it seems like he didn't test the market which is concerning to me, but it is what it is.
I agree. I was all for waiting on QB this draft in 2014.
I don't think the RT's where old or expensive though so that is my problem there. In fact players were complaining about the ow offers so much so they accused the owners of colluding. Anyways, I think it was a missed opportunity, but like the Monroe trade it is what it is at this point.
I agree on Daryl Smith as well and I think this is probably the most agree upon criticism of Caldwell so far. He was cheap and could have played a few more years here.
I agree with going young and the complete gut of the team. I do hope they make some agressive but smart moves in free agency next year. Build through the draft yes, but you can't do it all in the draft. One thing that irritated me about Gene Smith is he would rather pay cheaply for a bad player then pay more for a really good player. Vincent Jackson and Laurent Robinson immediately come to mind. I'm not talking Mario Williams type of over paying, but I didn't think VJ's deal was crazy and he was still young.
Quote:I don't really need to degrade you or call out your lack of intellect. You do a superb job on your own.
You said it's too soon to judge Caldwell. I know this is really leaving you in a state of confusion, but when you say that it's too soon to judge him, you're saying he needs more time.
Do you even know what the word patience means? If not, I'd suggest checking a dictionary, but it's clear you don't have one.
Let me get this straight?
According to you, I'm stupid, I'm dumb, Don't know football, and work at walmart or something.
Yet
If we go in the past my view of the team was always more right then you and most of your post seem really stupid and ignorant after the fact.
What does that make you?
Quote:I'm saying they didn't need to test the market. I'm fairly certain the GMs of 2 NFL franchises understood the value of the deal. If it was reasonable to both, there was no reason not to pull the trigger. The Jags got additional draft picks, and the Ravens rented an OT for the rest of the season.
If a team approaches you with a trade offer for a player you're not shopping, and you want to have any future dealings with other teams down the road, you don't take a fair deal and turn around and start making calls to other teams hoping to get a better deal. If it's reasonable, and both sides feel they'll benefit from the arrangement, make it happen. That good faith will pay off down the road.
No, I don't think it was a questionable move at all. I think I've made that abundantly clear based on the details we do know about the deal.
Well I can't disagree more. I don't agree that Caldwell knows Monroe's value without testing it. Who knows, maybe he will be surprised (Trich anyone?).
He doesn't have to show his hand. Doesn't need to tell them he hasn't been shopping around. You make it sound like he was doing a favor. Caldwell has every right to get as much for a player as he can especially for a team who lacks talent. It's business.
Quote:I dont' recall me saying that, I see you putting words in my mouth.
I want to see steady improvement and so far there has been 0 with no help on the way
mvp - I just think you seem to have unrealistic expectations for the team's performance this season. They seriously gutted the roster and staff. (you wanted that, yes?) And they are going with youth and value over experience, free agency and big spending. With that formula - it really will have to take some time to see results.
The Gene years were the Gene years and you were right to complain about many of the moves he made. This is different, IMO. I think you'll see what Caldwell's up to more clearly this time next year. If the arrow isn't pointing up significantly at that point, then my optimism that Caldwell is an upgrade will have been unfounded and you can call me a homer.... again.
Quote:Plans do change, and they changed each year under the previous GM. He just made poor decisions when he decided to change direction. Still, you don't have a crystal ball to know for certain that these things won't work. That's what you don't seem to grasp. It's really confusing for you to understand you have to let things play out. Nobody is saying you have to let them completely play themselves out, but you have to allow them to progress to the point where you know if it's right or wrong.
You think you're this great football mind. What do you do for a living? Does it include a name tag on your shirt? Why aren't you working for an NFL franchise bestowing upon them all your premature knowledge?
I think he is saying there is no need to applaud the moves so far. If they end up working, then he will heap praise. On both sides the praise and criticism are often too swift. It just sounds like he wants Caldwell to prove it, instead of assuming any move is the right move. Which was done in the past.
Quote:mvp - I just think you seem to have unrealistic expectations for the team's performance this season. They seriously gutted the roster and staff. (you wanted that, yes?) And they are going with youth and value over experience, free agency and big spending. With that formula - it really will have to take some time to see results.
The Gene years were the Gene years and you were right to complain about many of the moves he made. This is different, IMO. I think you'll see what Caldwell's up to more clearly this time next year. If the arrow isn't pointing up significantly at that point, then my optimism that Caldwell is an upgrade will have been unfounded and you can call me a homer.... again.
Yes I do understand the roster had to be gutted and do understand Caldwell inherited a very bad team.
With that being said, it is alarming to be watching one of the worst teams in NFL history on the field every week. I don't even mind losing this year but it's the way we are losing. This team is not competing and getting his butt handed to it every week.
Right now the arrow is way down. Lets see what next offseason brings major improvement.
Yes there is a reason to be concerned as a jags fan
Quote:I'm not stressing over it, I'm just saying it was worthy of discussion. I'm not happy with what they got for Monroe and it seems like he didn't test the market which is concerning to me, but it is what it is.
I agree. I was all for waiting on QB this draft in 2014.
I don't think the RT's where old or expensive though so that is my problem there. In fact players were complaining about the ow offers so much so they accused the owners of colluding. Anyways, I think it was a missed opportunity, but like the Monroe trade it is what it is at this point.
I agree on Daryl Smith as well and I think this is probably the most agree upon criticism of Caldwell so far. He was cheap and could have played a few more years here.
I agree with going young and the complete gut of the team. I do hope they make some agressive but smart moves in free agency next year. Build through the draft yes, but you can't do it all in the draft. One thing that irritated me about Gene Smith is he would rather pay cheaply for a bad player then pay more for a really good player. Vincent Jackson and Laurent Robinson immediately come to mind. I'm not talking Mario Williams type of over paying, but I didn't think VJ's deal was crazy and he was still young.
If you're not privy to what their plan is for the long term, there's no way to know for certain why they didn't get into the free agent market for the high profile RTs. Vollmer signed a contract that was nearly $30 million. Andre Smith signed a $20 million contract, and never intended to leave Cincy. Again, hardly chump change.
What we do know is that after they drafted Joeckel, they made it clear he was the starting RT the day after the draft. At that point, the need to grab a costly free agent evaporated. They weren't planning to trade Monroe at that point, or ever for that matter.
This notion that Gene Smith negotiated the contracts is pretty funny. Especially when the reality is we had one of the highest payrolls in the league last year, so I wouldn't call them cheap. They didn't spend that money wisely, but they weren't being cheap.
The fact that they decided not to move on with Smith probably had more to do with what they had in their plans long-term. He isn't a young player, and regardless of the price, bringing him back would have indicated he was part of the long term plan. I don't think that was the case, and based on the decision they made, that seems to be correct. Whether we like it or not, he's in a better place, and we will see how things unfold here without him over the long haul.