Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:It's too soon to write off a QB that can't throw spirals?

I was watching that Freshman or Sophmore from USC the other day and my god that dude can sling it. 

Quote:When in Dave Caldwells first ever press conference as a jag gm he said" we will not pursue Tim Tebow", I knew he was the right guy for the job.

But Bortles = Tebow.

Quote:Will an established winning coach be willing to work for a GM like Caldwell? It is not out of the question but it would be difficult. Sometimes money can solve this dilemma. With Caldwell, the Jags might have to settle and gamble with another coordinator. It will be back to the drawing board all over again. 

What established coach wouldn't work for a GM that gets him some of the top rated talent in the draft?  It's not like Caldwell has been reaching on the guys we've selected.  Since the entire emphasis of building the roster was to do the bulk of it through the draft, with less emphasis on overpriced free agency, Caldwell has actually scored very well with his drafts aside from 2013 which was a lousy draft to begin with.

Quote:I was watching that Freshman or Sophmore from USC the other day and my god that dude can sling it.

Most real QBS can. He'll even Drob throws a better ball than Bortles.

Quote:It's too soon to write off a QB that can't throw spirals?

Did you ever watch a guy named Peyton Manning?  That bum struggled to throw spirals his entire career.  It's a good thing he's out of the league now.

 

Spirals don't measure the QB.  Bortles telegraphing passes, his elongated throwing motion, and his decision making are much bigger issues than the spin on the ball.

Quote:you are ignoring what the experts are saying about Caldwell's drafts...That's pretty asinine...The experts know more than you do, but you are going to disregard what they say and expect anyone to take you seriously...

"the experts" had us painted as a Cinderella team. There are wrong

Quote:But Bortles = Tebow.

 

If I hear news of Bortles performing a circumcision in the Philippines this summer, then I will know that Tebow put a curse on this team.

Quote:"the experts" had us painted as a Cinderella team. There are wrong

 

There where?

Quote:Did you ever watch a guy named Peyton Manning?  That bum struggled to throw spirals his entire career.  It's a good thing he's out of the league now.

 

Spirals don't measure the QB.  Bortles telegraphing passes, his elongated throwing motion, and his decision making are much bigger issues than the spin on the ball.

 

While I would agree that you don't need to throw perfect spirals every time to be successful, a lot of Bortles passes this year have been such wounded ducks that you can see the loss of velocity, and it clearly has caused deep balls to be short of their target.  Look at the deep throw to Lee this week as a perfect example.  The ball just died on it's way to him.

 

Also, Peyton Manning had a LOT of other qualities that pretty much no other QB can match that made up for not throwing the tightest spiral.

 

Bortles does not have that.

The best quality of Peyton was that huge noggin of his, he played smart and knew every facet of the game.

Bortles bad throwing mechanics are causing inaccuracy and wobbly passes as well as batted passes interceptions ,etc.  You can't make good decisions when you can't throw the football.  

Quote:When Bradley was hired, he was the hot coordinator who was interviewing to take the next step. We weren't the only team that looked his way, and based on where the team was, and what the vision was for moving forward, he seemed like the right guy for the job.

Oh no doubt, it was a good hire at the time. I was fully on the Gus Bus at the beginning. But it became obvious by year 3 that Gus was a loser, his scheme was trash, and the players weren't responding to his loser message. No way in hell should he have received a 4th year and a contract extension. It just sent a message that losing games and having a loser mentality can and will be rewarded.

I can't make a good enough case to justify him keeping his job after this season. I'd like to see him stay. But it's rare. He's just as responsible for this 14 - 43 regime as Bradley is. So far none of his top five selections have looked all that great other than Ramsey here recently. We didn't find our franchise LT in Joeckel. He's now finished on IR twice in his career and even when he did manage to stay on the field he was mediocre at best. Bortles has regressed immensely this year. With or without solid coaching. You cannot excuse his mechanical and fundamental breakdowns this year. You could maybe blame the fact that he was around mediocre offensive coaching with the likes of Fisch and Olsen but that still doesn't fully excuse his mental lapses. He has to take ownership as well for our struggles. Fowler Jr. got a mulligan as a rookie thanks to blowing his knee out but this year he's been really a let down and can't even do enough to be named a starter. He's also had some basic fundamental break downs and can't seem to get on the coaches good sides at all. 

 

That's really my only knock on Caldwell. He doesn't seem to hit the best prospects with his most important selections. As far a bit later on? He could have done worse. He did manage to get Lee and Robinson in the same class. He found Linder late. He's a decent lineman. Cann can still get better and develop. He's not the best lineman we have but he's not the worst either. Cyprien has done enough of this year at strong safety apparently to the point to where PFF grades him inside the top ten at this position. That's saying a lot. Because I was writing this kid off at the beginning of the year. I hope he continues to get it done though. Yeldon doesn't seem like he's going to be the bell cow for our offense but he's looked a lot better these past two games with Hackett calling the plays than he had all year under Olsen. 

 

It's just hard to pin point exactly where all of the blame belongs. I refuse to believe Thomas, Jackson, Gipson and Ivory are garbage players. They seemed like pretty capable players at their positions prior to coming to this sand trap. I think it's really on the coaching. And I think Caldwell absolutely must shoulder the bulk of the blame for that. We should have pulled the plug on Bradley last year. Right after 2015 it should have been done. If Khan does keep him in 2017 it's going to be a tough sell on him trying to bring in another head coach. Because he may have to severely compromise on Bortles. You may not be able to convince a good head coach to come in here actually try to work with or fix Bortles. It can be done. It's just rare that happens though. 

 

But he obviously has to hire the right coach for the job in January or February next year if he keeps his gig. 

Quote:Did you ever watch a guy named Peyton Manning?  That bum struggled to throw spirals his entire career.  It's a good thing he's out of the league now.

 

Spirals don't measure the QB.  Bortles telegraphing passes, his elongated throwing motion, and his decision making are much bigger issues than the spin on the ball.

 

Manning has his share of ducks, but he also had plenty perfectly thrown spirals.  Bortles' norm is a duck, and a spiral is incredibly rare to see.  Manning threw spirals plenty - but he also threw some ducks.  It didn't matter because he was great at everything else.

Dave has been pretty good at bringing in talent. They don't get developed at all here, but its there.


I believe Khan is overriding Dave on the HC. Khan doesn't want to fire mid season etc.


In the end its Khans team and Dave reports to him.

Quote:Did you ever watch a guy named Peyton Manning?  That bum struggled to throw spirals his entire career.  It's a good thing he's out of the league now.

 

Spirals don't measure the QB.  Bortles telegraphing passes, his elongated throwing motion, and his decision making are much bigger issues than the spin on the ball.

 

Poor example man. I've heard this before and I always circle back to two things. 

 

1. Manning was a mastermind. Arguably the most masterful chess master in terms of reading a defense, dissecting a defense and knowing exactly where to go with that football before he even took a snap. 

 

2. Quick release. Great footwork. Accurate. Held the football at shoulder height. That's how he operated from the pocket. Because of what he could do as mentioned above. The ball didn't have to be perfect when he set his receivers up to be wide open or free more than 70% of the time. 

 

Bortles doesn't have either of those skills yet. 

 Comparing Bortles to Manning is just to asinine to reply.

Doesn't matter. Another failed rebuild coming up.


Can't wait. It's going to be fun.

Ehh...  I'm of the opinion that Caldwell has assembled enough talent to have this team playing .500 football and the coaches aren't preparing the team adequately or developing players' talents effectively. 

 

But he has made errors that get GMs fired.

He botched the HC hire.  

His QB choice is turning out to be much more of a project than he thought he'd be and may never approach "franchise QB" level. 

 

It's pretty tough to call at the moment for me. I feel like he's smart enough to right the ship if given the chance but it's hard to know to what degree Dave has learned from his mistakes  -  and if he'll repeat them. 

I don't see an argument for firing Caldwell. The list of players he's added through the draft and free agency is good. I have no criticism there other than on the o-line. However, poor o-line play is a league wide problem due to the garbage college offenses. It makes drafting o-linemen hard.