(10-19-2017, 06:03 PM)JPK Wrote: [ -> ]Trump is a petulant man child with a psycotic vindictive streak and he uses this and other non issue things to divert the attention away from his rapidly failing administration.
I support the players and the owners. If you don't that is your right.
Really, Trump is the poster child for patriotism? I wonder what the 51k dead from the SE Asian war would have to say about it.
To use fallen soldiers as a reason that we should support kneeling players is pathetic and undermines their sacrifice.
It's patriotic to stand. It is your right to kneel, but it is not patriotic.
Which is why the NFL is falling from their place as the (former) greatest sport in the world.
(10-19-2017, 06:49 PM)Jest101 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2017, 06:03 PM)JPK Wrote: [ -> ]Trump is a petulant man child with a psycotic vindictive streak and he uses this and other non issue things to divert the attention away from his rapidly failing administration.
I support the players and the owners. If you don't that is your right.
Really, Trump is the poster child for patriotism? I wonder what the 51k dead from the SE Asian war would have to say about it.
To use fallen soldiers as a reason that we should support kneeling players is pathetic and undermines their sacrifice.
It's patriotic to stand. It is your right to kneel, but it is not patriotic.
Which is why the NFL is falling from their place as the (former) greatest sport in the world.
It's patriotic to exercise your constitutional rights. Unquestioned allegiance to a symbol is how fascist dictatorships start.
(10-19-2017, 07:02 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2017, 06:49 PM)Jest101 Wrote: [ -> ]To use fallen soldiers as a reason that we should support kneeling players is pathetic and undermines their sacrifice.
It's patriotic to stand. It is your right to kneel, but it is not patriotic.
Which is why the NFL is falling from their place as the (former) greatest sport in the world.
It's patriotic to exercise your constitutional rights. Unquestioned allegiance to a symbol is how fascist dictatorships start.
MLK never disrespected the country and led the greatest civil rights movement in history.
(10-19-2017, 07:04 PM)Jest101 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2017, 07:02 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]It's patriotic to exercise your constitutional rights. Unquestioned allegiance to a symbol is how fascist dictatorships start.
MLK never disrespected the country and led the greatest civil rights movement in history.
Better chose a better analogy. Like the NFL players, King exercised his constitutional rights to peaceful, non-violent protest. Also like the NFL players, his positions (on Vietnam and southern institutions) were looked upon at the time as un-American and un-patriotic. His enemies hated him for it every bit as much as the Trump followers hate the NFL today. The mail he received looked almost exactly like the hate-filled rhetoric you see directed towards black players on social media today.
What trips me out is the same people that are in uproar over the kneeling are the same people who didn't even care when Trump insulted John McCain as not being a hero because he was captured. Somehow an actual direct overt action of disrespect to a soldier doesn't register but a kneeling player during the anthem whips them up in a frenzy, hypocritical to say the least.
This is how the NFL will destroy its brand permanently. Just the beginning...
NFL players’ union teamed up with Soros to fund leftist advocacy groups
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017...d-leftist/
"Honestly, I don't care, and I don't think the guys in this locker room care whether [the NFL] is going to be around in 20 years because none of us are going to be playing," Winston, an offensive tackle for the Bengals, told WCPO. "So if these guys [the owners] want to own for a long time, then they can own for a long time. But another work stoppage might kill the golden goose." Eric Winston NFLPA President
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20419...k-stoppage
(10-20-2017, 04:39 AM)bangem904 Wrote: [ -> ]This is how the NFL will destroy its brand permanently. Just the beginning...
NFL players’ union teamed up with Soros to fund leftist advocacy groups
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017...d-leftist/
"Honestly, I don't care, and I don't think the guys in this locker room care whether [the NFL] is going to be around in 20 years because none of us are going to be playing," Winston, an offensive tackle for the Bengals, told WCPO. "So if these guys [the owners] want to own for a long time, then they can own for a long time. But another work stoppage might kill the golden goose." Eric Winston NFLPA President
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20419...k-stoppage
The WT's is about as valid a "news outlet" as Steve Bannon's.
(10-19-2017, 07:02 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2017, 06:49 PM)Jest101 Wrote: [ -> ]To use fallen soldiers as a reason that we should support kneeling players is pathetic and undermines their sacrifice.
It's patriotic to stand. It is your right to kneel, but it is not patriotic.
Which is why the NFL is falling from their place as the (former) greatest sport in the world.
It's patriotic to exercise your constitutional rights.
So exercising your rights to advocate for Nazism is patriotic? I expect we'll see you supporting then next Klan rally on here then.
(10-19-2017, 08:56 AM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2017, 08:37 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ][quote pid='1046813' dateline='1508404206']
The kneeling is just the beginning. NFLPA and its commie masters are just getting warmed up.
Wrong. LOL. 
The collective bargaining agreement is running out so yes this is just the beginning of what the NFLPA is going to do. The owners will cave. Hey the NFL supports "bipartisan" bill for criminal justice reform so get ready for more politics in sports. Oh boy I can never get enough.
I just read an article where Chris Long is donating the rest of his game checks this year.....
Long announced via Twitter on Wednesday that he would be giving the 10 checks to charitable organizations in Philadelphia, Boston, and St. Louis “whose missions focus on making education easily accessible to underserved youth while also providing students the support they need to develop strong social and emotional character.
Now that is activism above taking a knee.
[/quote]If you think Chris Long is the only player doing anything other than taking a knee, you are sorely underinformed.....
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(10-19-2017, 07:02 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2017, 06:49 PM)Jest101 Wrote: [ -> ]To use fallen soldiers as a reason that we should support kneeling players is pathetic and undermines their sacrifice.
It's patriotic to stand. It is your right to kneel, but it is not patriotic.
Which is why the NFL is falling from their place as the (former) greatest sport in the world.
It's patriotic to exercise your constitutional rights. Unquestioned allegiance to a symbol is how fascist dictatorships start.
You nailed it. There is actually nothing more patriotic and respectful that properly utilizing constitutional rights..... THIS is what our service members fought to earn, and fight to preserve. We all show our patriotism and respect for the service members in different ways. Too many have failed to realise this.
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(10-20-2017, 08:04 AM)raptor6581 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2017, 07:02 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]It's patriotic to exercise your constitutional rights. Unquestioned allegiance to a symbol is how fascist dictatorships start.
You nailed it. There is actually nothing more patriotic and respectful that properly utilizing constitutional rights..... THIS is what our service members fought to earn, and fight to preserve. We all show our patriotism and respect for the service members in different ways. Too many have failed to realise this.
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So exercising your rights to advocate for Nazism is patriotic? I expect we'll see you supporting then next Klan rally on here then.
(10-20-2017, 02:44 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2017, 08:04 AM)raptor6581 Wrote: [ -> ]You nailed it. There is actually nothing more patriotic and respectful that properly utilizing constitutional rights..... THIS is what our service members fought to earn, and fight to preserve. We all show our patriotism and respect for the service members in different ways. Too many have failed to realise this.
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So exercising your rights to advocate for Nazism is patriotic? I expect we'll see you supporting then next Klan rally on here then.
Haha, yeah, there was a little hole in his argument and you nailed it.
(10-20-2017, 02:52 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2017, 02:44 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]So exercising your rights to advocate for Nazism is patriotic? I expect we'll see you supporting then next Klan rally on here then.
Haha, yeah, there was a little hole in his argument and you nailed it.
Your rights are your rights, what you use them for can be very bad.
(10-19-2017, 09:27 PM)Jest101 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2017, 08:23 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]Better chose a better analogy. Like the NFL players, King exercised his constitutional rights to peaceful, non-violent protest. Also like the NFL players, his positions (on Vietnam and southern institutions) were looked upon at the time as un-American and un-patriotic. His enemies hated him for it every bit as much as the Trump followers hate the NFL today. The mail he received looked almost exactly like the hate-filled rhetoric you see directed towards black players on social media today.
Way to play the race card
You're the one who brought up MLK and the civil rights movement. I hope you realize that was about race.
(10-19-2017, 10:36 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2017, 07:02 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]It's patriotic to exercise your constitutional rights. Unquestioned allegiance to a symbol is how fascist dictatorships start.
That's ridiculous. I have a constitutional right to own a gun, but I wouldn't call myself patriotic for owning one. A traitor has a constitutional right to not bear witness against himself; does that make him patriotic?
The problem here is that the players involved are protesting the USA in general by their actions, rather than the actual problem they perceive. But maybe I'm wrong. Please explain to us how the anthem (or the country it represents) is the problem that needs to be addressed.
Read my whole message and apply a little context. It's patriotic to exercise one's constitutional rights in the face of the people who'd like to oppress them. Kneeling for the anthem is a very public way for the players to use their celebrity to bring attention to racial injustice and police brutality in a society where 30% of the people won't even acknowledge there is a problem. Personally I don't agree that's the best way to bring about change but let's face it, if they just went out after a game and set up a picket line, no one would pay much attention.
(10-20-2017, 02:44 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2017, 08:04 AM)raptor6581 Wrote: [ -> ]You nailed it. There is actually nothing more patriotic and respectful that properly utilizing constitutional rights..... THIS is what our service members fought to earn, and fight to preserve. We all show our patriotism and respect for the service members in different ways. Too many have failed to realise this.
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So exercising your rights to advocate for Nazism is patriotic? I expect we'll see you supporting then next Klan rally on here then.
The true test of a core principle like freedom of speech is standing up for that principle even when it's uncomfortable. That's what people on the alt-right or extreme left seem to have so much difficulty understanding.
(10-19-2017, 07:02 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]It's patriotic to exercise your constitutional rights. Unquestioned allegiance to a symbol is how fascist dictatorships start.
True.
However The National Anthem, The Pledge of Allegiance, etc. is not just pledging allegiance to a symbol, it's showing respect for what the symbol represents. The flag isn't just a "piece of cloth" or just a "symbol" just like The Anthem is not just "a song". It's all about what they represent.
You know, the Republic that it symbolizes which is one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
You know, the land of the free and the home of the brave.
It's about each and every one of us regardless of race, religion, gender, etc.
So in essence, kneeling and/or refusing to show some dignity and respect when the flag is presented and The Anthem is played pretty much disrespects the people of this country.
Bottom line. If ya didn't see the disrespect prior to the president saying it. Then ya a a blind sheep. And just don't care we are free or our soilders died. Regardless of creed, color, gender, or nationality.
The ones who say it is to take a stand on police brutality must stink at math.
Cause just as many white people are hurrased by cops as well.
It only makes headlines when is someone not white.
Add to that. The last president was more racist then this one ever is. That is fact.
But regardless a place and time for everything. Not at a sporting event.
Besides Kaep does not care. Hos motive was jersey sales and to place the blame over a race instead of his skill.
And like Stephan A says. Where is Kaep? While all this is going on? Home and no where to be found.
He took something he could manipulate to his advantage. And made it a national cause.
But yet he don't care. Cause no longer about him. It wasn't he wasn't invited. It was according to his close friends. He didn't care to go.
Besides if ya want to change things and ya believe the government is the source ya go to the white house. Not kneeling at a football game.
that will solve nothing.
(10-20-2017, 05:46 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2017, 09:27 PM)Jest101 Wrote: [ -> ]Way to play the race card
You're the one who brought up MLK and the civil rights movement. I hope you realize that was about race.
(10-19-2017, 10:36 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]That's ridiculous. I have a constitutional right to own a gun, but I wouldn't call myself patriotic for owning one. A traitor has a constitutional right to not bear witness against himself; does that make him patriotic?
The problem here is that the players involved are protesting the USA in general by their actions, rather than the actual problem they perceive. But maybe I'm wrong. Please explain to us how the anthem (or the country it represents) is the problem that needs to be addressed.
Read my whole message and apply a little context. It's patriotic to exercise one's constitutional rights in the face of the people who'd like to oppress them. Kneeling for the anthem is a very public way for the players to use their celebrity to bring attention to racial injustice and police brutality in a society where 30% of the people won't even acknowledge there is a problem. Personally I don't agree that's the best way to bring about change but let's face it, if they just went out after a game and set up a picket line, no one would pay much attention.
(10-20-2017, 02:44 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]So exercising your rights to advocate for Nazism is patriotic? I expect we'll see you supporting then next Klan rally on here then.
The true test of a core principle like freedom of speech is standing up for that principle even when it's uncomfortable. That's what people on the alt-right or extreme left seem to have so much difficulty understanding.
Permitting Nazis to speak honors the 1st Amendment. Using it to advocate for anti-American purposes does not.
(10-20-2017, 06:29 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2017, 07:02 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]It's patriotic to exercise your constitutional rights. Unquestioned allegiance to a symbol is how fascist dictatorships start.
True.
However The National Anthem, The Pledge of Allegiance, etc. is not just pledging allegiance to a symbol, it's showing respect for what the symbol represents. The flag isn't just a "piece of cloth" or just a "symbol" just like The Anthem is not just "a song". It's all about what they represent.
You know, the Republic that it symbolizes which is one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
You know, the land of the free and the home of the brave.
It's about each and every one of us regardless of race, religion, gender, etc.
So in essence, kneeling and/or refusing to show some dignity and respect when the flag is presented and The Anthem is played pretty much disrespects the people of this country.
I disagree. The flag and the anthem are symbols, exactly right, but issues arise when people start to confuse the ideals with the symbols. They're not synonymous. The reason it can become dangerous is because eventually the symbol can be more important than the ideals. There are historical examples. Hell, we're seeing it right now where the freedom to peaceful protest is being viewed as being secondary in importance to the symbol itself. Someone on social media said "I want to be able to support my flag because of what it represents, not in spite of what it represents." I certainly agree with that sentiment.
(10-22-2017, 10:34 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2017, 06:29 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]True.
However The National Anthem, The Pledge of Allegiance, etc. is not just pledging allegiance to a symbol, it's showing respect for what the symbol represents. The flag isn't just a "piece of cloth" or just a "symbol" just like The Anthem is not just "a song". It's all about what they represent.
You know, the Republic that it symbolizes which is one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
You know, the land of the free and the home of the brave.
It's about each and every one of us regardless of race, religion, gender, etc.
So in essence, kneeling and/or refusing to show some dignity and respect when the flag is presented and The Anthem is played pretty much disrespects the people of this country.
I disagree. The flag and the anthem are symbols, exactly right, but issues arise when people start to confuse the ideals with the symbols. They're not synonymous. The reason it can become dangerous is because eventually the symbol can be more important than the ideals. There are historical examples. Hell, we're seeing it right now where the freedom to peaceful protest is being viewed as being secondary in importance to the symbol itself. Someone on social media said "I want to be able to support my flag because of what it represents, not in spite of what it represents." I certainly agree with that sentiment.
Most people disagree with the intent of the protest no matter how it's being carried out, because the whole reason for the protest is false. That's what you don't want to understand. That these misinformed protesters are choosing to disrespect the USA, her flag and her veterans by their chosen protest mechanism only makes it worse.