(10-22-2017, 04:10 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2017, 10:34 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree. The flag and the anthem are symbols, exactly right, but issues arise when people start to confuse the ideals with the symbols. They're not synonymous. The reason it can become dangerous is because eventually the symbol can be more important than the ideals. There are historical examples. Hell, we're seeing it right now where the freedom to peaceful protest is being viewed as being secondary in importance to the symbol itself. Someone on social media said "I want to be able to support my flag because of what it represents, not in spite of what it represents." I certainly agree with that sentiment.
Most people disagree with the intent of the protest no matter how it's being carried out, because the whole reason for the protest is false. That's what you don't want to understand. That these misinformed protesters are choosing to disrespect the USA, her flag and her veterans by their chosen protest mechanism only makes it worse.
Actually, I disagree with *some* of the assumptions behind the protests and question the effectiveness of it anyway since so many people misunderstand it so fundamentally. On the other hand, I deeply respect the protester's right to protest. Like most here, you're confusing the reasons for the protest with the manner of the protest. The flag does not supersede individual liberty and freedom. As a veteran, I didn't serve to protect a physical piece of cloth but rather the ideals behind it.
(10-22-2017, 04:26 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2017, 04:10 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Most people disagree with the intent of the protest no matter how it's being carried out, because the whole reason for the protest is false. That's what you don't want to understand. That these misinformed protesters are choosing to disrespect the USA, her flag and her veterans by their chosen protest mechanism only makes it worse.
Actually, I disagree with *some* of the assumptions behind the protests and question the effectiveness of it anyway since so many people misunderstand it so fundamentally. On the other hand, I deeply respect the protester's right to protest. Like most here, you're confusing the reasons for the protest with the manner of the protest. The flag does not supersede individual liberty and freedom. As a veteran, I didn't serve to protect a physical piece of cloth but rather the ideals behind it.
I, too, respect the right to protest. The reasons for this protest are false and I disagree with their assertions. The method is foolish and I believe it's disrespectful and does nothing but damage their false cause.
(10-22-2017, 10:34 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2017, 06:29 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]True.
However The National Anthem, The Pledge of Allegiance, etc. is not just pledging allegiance to a symbol, it's showing respect for what the symbol represents. The flag isn't just a "piece of cloth" or just a "symbol" just like The Anthem is not just "a song". It's all about what they represent.
You know, the Republic that it symbolizes which is one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
You know, the land of the free and the home of the brave.
It's about each and every one of us regardless of race, religion, gender, etc.
So in essence, kneeling and/or refusing to show some dignity and respect when the flag is presented and The Anthem is played pretty much disrespects the people of this country.
I disagree. The flag and the anthem are symbols, exactly right, but issues arise when people start to confuse the ideals with the symbols. They're not synonymous. The reason it can become dangerous is because eventually the symbol can be more important than the ideals. There are historical examples. Hell, we're seeing it right now where the freedom to peaceful protest is being viewed as being secondary in importance to the symbol itself. Someone on social media said "I want to be able to support my flag because of what it represents, not in spite of what it represents." I certainly agree with that sentiment.
I can see where you're coming from and I certainly don't disagree with you. However with that being said, I also agree with flsprtsgod in that the method of protest is foolish and disrespectful. It appears to me that the method (in the case of multiple players doing it a few weeks ago) really had nothing to do with a "protest" regarding social issues and everything to do with purposely offending certain people, mainly President Trump.
I won't go into the true or false aspect of what some players might be "protesting" or shedding light on since that's a whole other topic.
The whole point of this thread (and many articles out there) is the fact that politics has invaded the NFL. Politics has a place, but it's certainly not on an NFL field and/or on sports media.