(01-22-2018, 12:33 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-22-2018, 12:30 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I see your point, and it may have affected some of the players that way. But, as made evident by comments by players post-game, there are a number of players on this squad that are persevering through what they perceive as coaching mistakes.
It's a young team that doesn't have a lot of experience to fall back on. They will follow the lead that the coach sets.
Like I said above, hopefully this will be a learning experience for all.
I think there are a solid handful of young players that are absolutely stating their desire to do the opposite of that. (If these reports from the locker room are true and I tend to trust the sources.) I mean - we've already seen Ramsey and Gipson badmouth Wash's use of their skillsets. Why just assume there isn't more of that happening now?
The end of the 2nd half was gutless. Some defend it saying Hackett doesn't trust Bortles yet most seem happy keeping Bortles. Who is the problem here?
(01-22-2018, 01:08 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]The end of the 2nd half was gutless. Some defend it saying Hackett doesn't trust Bortles yet most seem happy keeping Bortles. Who is the problem here?
Kneeling there is not an OC decision. It's a HC decision.
Hackett doesn't trust Bortles in a number of situations for good reason, but it wasn't his call to take a knee there.
If Marrone says let's see if we can score - then Hackett starts dialing up sideline passes.
(01-22-2018, 01:16 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2018, 01:08 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]The end of the 2nd half was gutless. Some defend it saying Hackett doesn't trust Bortles yet most seem happy keeping Bortles. Who is the problem here?
Kneeling there is not an OC decision. It's a HC decision.
Hackett doesn't trust Bortles in a number of situations for good reason, but it wasn't his call to take a knee there.
If Marrone says let's see if we can score - then Hackett starts dialing up sideline passes.
It is frusturating as hell. Considering he made a 52 yarder already. To not even try to get into FG rang was crazy. Not to mention, they could have burned those TO when Brady went into the no huddle on goalline for previous TD.
Doug Marrone has shown weakness in situational coaching as Pete Prisco calls it.
Those kneel downs definitely set the tone for the 2nd half. They were showing that they were playing to not lose, rather than to win and it cost em.
Both the OC and DC got scared and they went conservative. Too much Zone on Defense and too much 1st down rushes.
We had 7 possessions in the 2nd half. The 1st down play in each of those possessions went as followed..
1st and 10 at our 25 - Fournette run left for 2 yards.
1st and 10 at our 10 - Bortles pass incomplete to Lee
1st and 10 at our 9 - Fournette run middle for no gain.
1st and 10 at our 33 - Fournette run middle for 2 yards.
1st and 10 at our 16 - Fournette run left for 1 yard.
1st and 10 at our 10 - Fournette run middle -1 yard.
1st and 10 at our 25 - Bortles pass complete to Lee for 8 yards.
That last possession, we had to throw it and everybody knew it. All those other possessions, yea the field position wasn't great by any means, but every one of those possessions had 2nd down of 8 or more. We're already behind the chains at that point and it makes everything that much easier for the Pats to defend.
(01-22-2018, 01:21 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2018, 01:16 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Kneeling there is not an OC decision. It's a HC decision.
Hackett doesn't trust Bortles in a number of situations for good reason, but it wasn't his call to take a knee there.
If Marrone says let's see if we can score - then Hackett starts dialing up sideline passes.
It is frusturating as hell. Considering he made a 52 yarder already. To not even try to get into FG rang was crazy. Not to mention, they could have burned those TO when Brady went into the no huddle on goalline for previous TD.
Doug Marrone has shown weakness in situational coaching as Pete Prisco calls it.
I agree on the frustration of this situation. Marrone has shown strength in other situations (red zone, fourth down etc) but this clock/T.O. management nearing the end of the first half has been weak-sauce in a few games this year IMO.
It was extra painful when we saw the Eagles get the ball with 40 seconds left before halftime and Nick friggin Foles drove it right now for a FG merely 4 hours after we chickened out.
We played scared and didn't trust our soon to be expensive QB to do even basic functions of a franchise QB, the Eagles let their backup QB rip it and were rewarded handsomely.
I'll go ahead and post it here since it got buried in the other thread. Literally the most scared play call of the season by any team.
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The Jaguars decided to kneel with 55 seconds remaining in the first half and 2 timeouts.
No team had taken a knee with over 50 seconds remaining in the first half this season.
(01-22-2018, 01:21 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Those kneel downs definitely set the tone for the 2nd half. They were showing that they were playing to not lose, rather than to win and it cost em.
Both the OC and DC got scared and they went conservative. Too much Zone on Defense and too much 1st down rushes.
We had 7 possessions in the 2nd half. The 1st down play in each of those possessions went as followed..
1st and 10 at our 25 - Fournette run left for 2 yards.
1st and 10 at our 10 - Bortles pass incomplete to Lee
1st and 10 at our 9 - Fournette run middle for no gain.
1st and 10 at our 33 - Fournette run middle for 2 yards.
1st and 10 at our 16 - Fournette run left for 1 yard.
1st and 10 at our 10 - Fournette run middle -1 yard.
1st and 10 at our 25 - Bortles pass complete to Lee for 8 yards.
That last possession, we had to throw it and everybody knew it. All those other possessions, yea the field position wasn't great by any means, but every one of those possessions had 2nd down of 8 or more. We're already behind the chains at that point and it makes everything that much easier for the Pats to defend.
This is very telling. Hackett put up both of his "personas" in this game. We got the good Hackett early, then the overly conservative nightmare Hackett. The offense was pretty lethargic in 2nd half. They played not to lose, not to win.
With a tenuous 4 point lead vs the defending champions
After gifting em 7 and momentum for a comeback
Jags kneel with 55 seconds and 2 timeouts on hand
The football gods gawked
Game over they wrote
And moved on to gutsier matters
(01-22-2018, 01:21 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Those kneel downs definitely set the tone for the 2nd half. They were showing that they were playing to not lose, rather than to win and it cost em.
Both the OC and DC got scared and they went conservative. Too much Zone on Defense and too much 1st down rushes.
We had 7 possessions in the 2nd half. The 1st down play in each of those possessions went as followed..
1st and 10 at our 25 - Fournette run left for 2 yards.
1st and 10 at our 10 - Bortles pass incomplete to Lee
1st and 10 at our 9 - Fournette run middle for no gain.
1st and 10 at our 33 - Fournette run middle for 2 yards.
1st and 10 at our 16 - Fournette run left for 1 yard.
1st and 10 at our 10 - Fournette run middle -1 yard.
1st and 10 at our 25 - Bortles pass complete to Lee for 8 yards.
That last possession, we had to throw it and everybody knew it. All those other possessions, yea the field position wasn't great by any means, but every one of those possessions had 2nd down of 8 or more. We're already behind the chains at that point and it makes everything that much easier for the Pats to defend.
Where was all that play action that got them quick marches down the field against the Steelers? They went straight forward vanilla in the 2nd half. Gotta run up the score against an offense like that. Or at least keep moving the chains as it keeps possession away from Brady.
Ok, slept on the loss and just checking if Hackett has been fired yet?
Could at least have run a draw play if they were worried about Bortles throwing a pick. Kneeling was dumb. I don’t agree that that set the tone though. They still came out the second half and went up by 10 before they went ultra conservative
I'm still trying to figure out how in God green earth you can go so conservative playing against the best ever?
(01-21-2018, 11:51 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (01-21-2018, 11:45 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]Do you seriously think bortles will drive the team efficiently and effectively down the field to fg range or td without a 3 and out or a int pick 6. You saw what happened last 2 minutes of the game. That's not his game. He's effective when working within the offense Hackett scheme that hides Blake's deficiencies. He's no brady, big ben, rodgers
Better chance of scoring points trying than kneeling. Do you really believe that we should waste a scoring opportunity with only 14 points playing a guy like Brady?
We have gotten in field goal multiple times with that amount of time on the clock. A field goal there means we are kicking for the win at the end of the game instead of having to go for it on 4th down.
Suppose they don’t take a knee there and instead they go aggressively and have something like a pick six? I am sure you would have started a thread saying they should have taken a knee and not risked giving New England another chance to score.
I don’t have a problem with that call. There are plenty of other play calls to hate in that game, especially in the fourth quarter. This wasn’t one of them.
(01-22-2018, 07:51 AM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ] (01-21-2018, 11:51 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Better chance of scoring points trying than kneeling. Do you really believe that we should waste a scoring opportunity with only 14 points playing a guy like Brady?
We have gotten in field goal multiple times with that amount of time on the clock. A field goal there means we are kicking for the win at the end of the game instead of having to go for it on 4th down.
Suppose they don’t take a knee there and instead they go aggressively and have something like a pick six? I am sure you would have started a thread saying they should have taken a knee and not risked giving New England another chance to score.
I don’t have a problem with that call. There are plenty of other play calls to hate in that game, especially in the fourth quarter. This wasn’t one of them.
Romo said as much, "Brady wants the ball back again." With the next kick coming our way and the clear momentum shift it was the right thing to just get to the locker room. No telling what else the refs had in mind to make Brady look good.
(01-22-2018, 07:51 AM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ] (01-21-2018, 11:51 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Better chance of scoring points trying than kneeling. Do you really believe that we should waste a scoring opportunity with only 14 points playing a guy like Brady?
We have gotten in field goal multiple times with that amount of time on the clock. A field goal there means we are kicking for the win at the end of the game instead of having to go for it on 4th down.
Suppose they don’t take a knee there and instead they go aggressively and have something like a pick six? I am sure you would have started a thread saying they should have taken a knee and not risked giving New England another chance to score.
I don’t have a problem with that call. There are plenty of other play calls to hate in that game, especially in the fourth quarter. This wasn’t one of them.
That's the kind of thought process that gets you beat in big games, especially against the Patriots.
Plenty of other "moments" we lost. 3rd and 18. That awful delay of game penalty when we would have been up at least 17-3. But that kneel down before the half was definitely another "moment" we lost , completely by virtue of playing scared and giving them too much respect.
Teams rarely if ever win championships with that thought process.
(01-22-2018, 07:51 AM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ]Suppose they don’t take a knee there and instead they go aggressively and have something like a pick six? I am sure you would have started a thread saying they should have taken a knee and not risked giving New England another chance to score.
I don’t have a problem with that call. There are plenty of other play calls to hate in that game, especially in the fourth quarter. This wasn’t one of them.
Hard to type this while also arguing we should give Bortles an extension. The Eagles had enough belief in their backup QB to go for a score with 40 seconds left until halftime, and it paid off. Our staff does not believe in our QB enough to do it despite more time left, and he's about to get a 3x raise. Tough spot to be in for a coaching staff.
Bortles excelled at the 2 min offense early in his career. In fact, it was the only thing he was good at. I think the situation before end of half told us everything we need to know regarding keeping BB around.
Oh snap!!!!!
this is what makes teams good or great. you looked scared and I was doing the salsa just knowing we had it in the bag at this point.
(01-21-2018, 11:45 PM)JNev Wrote: [ -> ]To me it really meant nothing in the whole scheme of the game
Are you serious?