Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(05-23-2018, 09:45 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-23-2018, 07:17 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, I can't empathize with a 17 year who wont shower.

My sister is a special ed teacher and over the years, has had several students with this problem, but by learning about the kids, instead of ridiculing them, she found out they couldn't help it. In some cases, the parents were drug addicts and many times didn't pay the water bill. The kids were lucky to even get fed, much less take showers or buy deodorant. Some kids wore the same clothes over and over, because their parents were too poor or too lazy to wash their clothes or even buy clothes that fit. When I was a kid myself, I was blind to a lot of this stuff. I had good parents, who although we were far from rich, they always got me the stuff I needed and made sure I was clean and had nice clothes for school. Not everyone is so lucky. Some kids are born to parents who either just don't care, are sadistic piles of trash or are too poor to buy them the daily essentials. It's not the fault of the kids, yet they have to go through the degradation and humiliation of being bullied every day for being unclean.

My wife is a special ed teacher and we've dealt with the scum of the Earth abusing her students. THIS shooter was none of those things, he was a trench coat wearing, commie and Nazi lapel pin sporting, brat who shot up a girl who turned him down. Again, the problem and solution is squarely in the home.

(05-23-2018, 11:04 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-23-2018, 10:17 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]It’s fact because CNN said so? Because it met their non-normative guidlines? Your lack of comprehension and comparative capabilities reeks! Yes, very misleading based on federal guidlines, but feel free to readily gorge on anything they put out. Where in that craptastic CNN article does it cite a reliable source? FYI, if you want to claim you researched, you may want to step away from your CNN bubble. I’ll link a site of some readily available sources so you can at least start down the path of gaining useful knowledge. In all your arm flailing and squaking you still fail to answer the questions I posed to actually address the issues, rather than this useless bickering.

https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnerships/o...-resources

Do you deny that in every one of those 22 incidents, it was a shooting of a gun at a human target in a school? Every synopsis had a link, every incident reported by other sources. Were they all mass shootings like the ones in Texas and Florida? No, but the criteria used were clearly stated in the beginning of the CNN article. You didn't know that, because you "gorged" on the article you linked, with no follow-up on your part. It fit your world view, you gobbled it up like saltines. 

The irony here is we are essentially arguing over semantics, whether or not CNN improperly used the term "school shootings", then your supposedly enlightening (though interesting, thanks) link was to an FBI site where the topic is Active Shooters. 

You brought up CNN, not me. I'm not comfortable defending CNN, they get too fixated. I merely addressed your post. My choice of morning viewing is Dan Patrick and reruns of That 70's Show. The news channels are noise. Looking at the tone of our posts, do you really have the lack of self-awareness to claim I'm the one flailing my arms? None of this affects my life in any way.

a School Shooting is defined as Columbine-like shootings to everyone with a brain.

A dude going in a school and shooting his ex ain't a school shooting.

A driveby near a school ain't a school shooting. (hell if it were Sandalwood would have had one or two a year every year)

(05-23-2018, 09:51 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-23-2018, 09:45 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]My sister is a special ed teacher and over the years, has had several students with this problem, but by learning about the kids, instead of ridiculing them, she found out they couldn't help it. In some cases, the parents were drug addicts and many times didn't pay the water bill. The kids were lucky to even get fed, much less take showers or buy deodorant. Some kids wore the same clothes over and over, because their parents were too poor or too lazy to wash their clothes or even buy clothes that fit. When I was a kid myself, I was blind to a lot of this stuff. I had good parents, who although we were far from rich, they always got me the stuff I needed and made sure I was clean and had nice clothes for school. Not everyone is so lucky. Some kids are born to parents who either just don't care, are sadistic piles of trash or are too poor to buy them the daily essentials. It's not the fault of the kids, yet they have to go through the degradation and humiliation of being bullied every day for being unclean.

And there was a time when that was how the wheat was separated from chaff.

I'm sorry that so many democrats people have children they can't afford and demand free money from the government to keep them up to date with their drug dealers.

Those people should have exercised their right to choose rather than expect the rest of us to help.

That's pretty harsh, right? Sorry - I pay my bills and keep my kids fed and clothed. Caring is great - if you're rich. I don't have that luxury. But if I had millions of dollars, I'd be doing my best to help.

So, the kids have to suffer for the parents' sins? They didn't ask to be born. I've always said people should have to pass some kind of test in order to be able to breed, but since that is never gonna happen, we have to find a way to punish the parents and help the kids born into such situations.

---

(05-23-2018, 10:30 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-23-2018, 09:45 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]My sister is a special ed teacher and over the years, has had several students with this problem, but by learning about the kids, instead of ridiculing them, she found out they couldn't help it. In some cases, the parents were drug addicts and many times didn't pay the water bill. The kids were lucky to even get fed, much less take showers or buy deodorant. Some kids wore the same clothes over and over, because their parents were too poor or too lazy to wash their clothes or even buy clothes that fit. When I was a kid myself, I was blind to a lot of this stuff. I had good parents, who although we were far from rich, they always got me the stuff I needed and made sure I was clean and had nice clothes for school. Not everyone is so lucky. Some kids are born to parents who either just don't care, are sadistic piles of trash or are too poor to buy them the daily essentials. It's not the fault of the kids, yet they have to go through the degradation and humiliation of being bullied every day for being unclean.

In my early military days I had two individuals that somehow made it through the recruitment process and under my leadership that had severe hygiene issues. One male and one female. I had many a “session” to remedy the issues. As it turned out, the male had a medical issue that caused severe body odor. The female had been neglected and never learned how to take care of herself. The fact that these two individuals slipped through the cracks for so long is what is wrong. Not one person showed them the necessary attention so that they could thrive and progress in society. The “it’s not my problem” mentality is what reinforces the mental issues we’re seeing. We have the ability to identify, correct, and encourage. Instead, we’d rather cry about the consequences later on and pretend like we had no idea something was wrong. Humanity can fix alot of what we are seeing but it will take folks getting outside of their selfish bubbles.

Great post.

I guess it's hard for me to empathize.. I was 6'2" at 14. Bullying only happened at the middle school level and that wasn't that bad.

(05-23-2018, 09:51 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-23-2018, 09:45 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]My sister is a special ed teacher and over the years, has had several students with this problem, but by learning about the kids, instead of ridiculing them, she found out they couldn't help it. In some cases, the parents were drug addicts and many times didn't pay the water bill. The kids were lucky to even get fed, much less take showers or buy deodorant. Some kids wore the same clothes over and over, because their parents were too poor or too lazy to wash their clothes or even buy clothes that fit. When I was a kid myself, I was blind to a lot of this stuff. I had good parents, who although we were far from rich, they always got me the stuff I needed and made sure I was clean and had nice clothes for school. Not everyone is so lucky. Some kids are born to parents who either just don't care, are sadistic piles of trash or are too poor to buy them the daily essentials. It's not the fault of the kids, yet they have to go through the degradation and humiliation of being bullied every day for being unclean.

And there was a time when that was how the wheat was separated from chaff.

I'm sorry that so many democrats people have children they can't afford and demand free money from the government to keep them up to date with their drug dealers.

Those people should have exercised their right to choose rather than expect the rest of us to help.

That's pretty harsh, right? Sorry - I pay my bills and keep my kids fed and clothed. Caring is great - if you're rich. I don't have that luxury. But if I had millions of dollars, I'd be doing my best to help.

To say this is a problem just within the Democrat voting populace shows how stupid you really are. You're not even ignorant because you do know better, you just choose to be a jerk. You may as well say all blacks are thugs and all Asians eat cats. 

I've known plenty of folks across the political spectrum that have/had the ability to provide and plenty who don't/didn't. Political leanings does not a decent human make, nor a bad one.

(05-20-2018, 10:29 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-20-2018, 08:33 PM)lastonealive Wrote: [ -> ]By taking kids out of public schools and into private you are part of the problem. It creates a divided society of haves and have nots. It's why Finland has the best education in the world. They get it and everyone goes to public schools.

How many Finns have won a Nobel prize in a hard science?

Answer: one, Vitaranen in 1945. Their "best education in the world" hasn't created a single Nobel scientist since Finland was still part of Russia.

Meanwhile, plenty of scientists who went through the US education system have won Nobel prizes. Sure, the US has a bigger population, but that shouldn't totally overwhelm "the best education in the world."

I have always thought it is ridiculous all of you guys trying to out smart one another on this forum. 

However, I've got to stick up for my people here. 

First off, what would you define as a "soft" science?

You are talking about 5.5 million people vs 320 million. I would have to say that is a big difference. 

Your post screams of ignorance. I know this is way off topic but goodness, just do a Google search. Finland, per capita is one of the most innovative countries in the world. 

(05-21-2018, 08:03 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-21-2018, 03:23 AM)lastonealive Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure based off singular prizes is the smartest thing to do. Dodgy education?

I was talking of schooling and the whole of society approach. Yes the very wealthy,connected Americans and ultra Intelligent get a fabulous higher education in America. But I'm guessing they aren't the ones shooting up the schools?

The Nobel  prizes in chemistry and physics are a recorded measure of the cream of the crop in science. But if you want to name some physicists or chemists from Finland who made great advancements in science but didn't get a prize, be my guest. I'm guessing that whoever named Finland "the best education in the world" is using poor criteria to make that list. Do you think that having everyone get merely an above mediocre education is better than a system that produces great people?

As far as your second paragraph, I'm not familiar with the specifics of every American scientist who won a Nobel prize, but I doubt they were all children of rich people who could afford to send them to elite schools.

Maybe having a monocultural European-based society in Finland has something to do with fewer school shootings and fewer students who end up with a poor education. Note that the increase in school shootings in the US correlates with a movement to promote cultural diversity ahead of the long existing British-based value system in the US. It doesn't correlate with the availability of guns.

A little better here. 

The credibility or criteria used by "whoever" who named Finland as having the best schools? I don't even know what to say.

Your last sentence I do agree with you.

As for the topic on hand. This is a tragedy no doubt.

As many of you have said and I have said this myself, the family has failed. There is no doubt in my mind this has a lot to do with the problems we are facing in today's society.

Having just watched the end of the Warriors vs. Rockets game, one thing that I noticed is that everyone was on their cellphones. Obviously the majority of these people are posting pictures of themselves at the game on social media. Many of those in attendance were children. The days of doing something cool and being excited for school the next day to be able to tell your friends, are gone. Think of the impact this plays on a child who cannot be at that game but who wants to.

(05-25-2018, 12:29 AM)Jagfan44 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-20-2018, 10:29 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]How many Finns have won a Nobel prize in a hard science?

Answer: one, Vitaranen in 1945. Their "best education in the world" hasn't created a single Nobel scientist since Finland was still part of Russia.

Meanwhile, plenty of scientists who went through the US education system have won Nobel prizes. Sure, the US has a bigger population, but that shouldn't totally overwhelm "the best education in the world."

I have always thought it is ridiculous all of you guys trying to out smart one another on this forum. 

However, I've got to stick up for my people here. 

First off, what would you define as a "soft" science?

You are talking about 5.5 million people vs 320 million. I would have to say that is a big difference. 

Your post screams of ignorance. I know this is way off topic but goodness, just do a Google search. Finland, per capita is one of the most innovative countries in the world. 

(05-21-2018, 08:03 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]
The Nobel  prizes in chemistry and physics are a recorded measure of the cream of the crop in science. But if you want to name some physicists or chemists from Finland who made great advancements in science but didn't get a prize, be my guest. I'm guessing that whoever named Finland "the best education in the world" is using poor criteria to make that list. Do you think that having everyone get merely an above mediocre education is better than a system that produces great people?

As far as your second paragraph, I'm not familiar with the specifics of every American scientist who won a Nobel prize, but I doubt they were all children of rich people who could afford to send them to elite schools.

Maybe having a monocultural European-based society in Finland has something to do with fewer school shootings and fewer students who end up with a poor education. Note that the increase in school shootings in the US correlates with a movement to promote cultural diversity ahead of the long existing British-based value system in the US. It doesn't correlate with the availability of guns.

A little better here. 

The credibility or criteria used by "whoever" who named Finland as having the best schools? I don't even know what to say.

Your last sentence I do agree with you.

Hard sciences are physics, chemistry, biology, math, engineering, mechanical, and medical. Soft sciences are demographics and issues based.

And does the difference in population size matter to the applicability of things like gun control laws and social programs as well? Because I think the size and demographics of a country directly correlate to the success of the things we discuss here.

And I for one would never mess with Finland. Those bastards are rough when they get riled up.

(05-25-2018, 12:29 AM)Jagfan44 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-20-2018, 10:29 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]How many Finns have won a Nobel prize in a hard science?

Answer: one, Vitaranen in 1945. Their "best education in the world" hasn't created a single Nobel scientist since Finland was still part of Russia.

Meanwhile, plenty of scientists who went through the US education system have won Nobel prizes. Sure, the US has a bigger population, but that shouldn't totally overwhelm "the best education in the world."

I have always thought it is ridiculous all of you guys trying to out smart one another on this forum. 

However, I've got to stick up for my people here. 

First off, what would you define as a "soft" science?

You are talking about 5.5 million people vs 320 million. I would have to say that is a big difference. 

Your post screams of ignorance. I know this is way off topic but goodness, just do a Google search. Finland, per capita is one of the most innovative countries in the world. 

As I stated, I used Nobel prizes a a criterion because it was a readily available quantitative measure. I view it in the same way I view using the Pro Bowl to evaluate GMs. It's not really accurate, but it's not totally inaccurate either, and it's easy to compile.

I'm calling physics, chemistry, and biology (including medicine) the "hard"sciences that have Nobel prizes. The others are economics, literature, and peace. The criteria for those three prizes delve deeply into politics. The science prizes can be affected by political considerations too, but are generally more objective. Maybe you'd like to comment on whether the Swedes look favorably or unfavorably at a scientists from another Scandinavian country? Offhand, I'd guess that if anything it would be a political advantage to come from Finland in this case.

As far as "sticking up for my people" does that mean you are from Finland? If so, I'm always happy to see Jags fans from foreign countries, even the clueless Leftists who post about American politics. My post was about sticking up for my people, namely the US education system. I have many complaints about US schools, but I don't like to have them called inferior to some other country, especially from a foreigner posting here.

Now if you want to complain about my statements, at least do the math.

320 is 58 times more than 5.5.  The US has had a combined (roughly since it's from a Google search graph) 250 Nobels in Physics, Chemistry, and Biology, so, all things being equal, you'd expect 4 or 5 people from a country of 5.5 million to win a Nobel prize in those fields. The original poster claimed Finland has a better educational system, so that would imply there should be significantly more than 4 or 5. 

Only one Finn has ever won a Nobel prize in those categories.

There are, of course, many factors here. Many of the US citizens who won Nobel prizes were naturalized citizens educated in other countries. There's a time factor too since the discussion of educational quality is about recent times, so older Nobel prize winners don't apply. Considering the one Finn who won a Nobel prize had an education that predates the existence of Finland, that number goes to zero. We all know what happens when you divide by zero, the number of Americans educated in the US school system vs. the number of Finns educated in the Finnish school system becomes infinite.

And yes, none of this applies to school shootings. Like I said above, I was just defending my people.

I have a bit more of a controversial opinion on this, but it basically stems from the fact that there's too many people on this planet. Living is too easy, the strongest and best of our species aren't the only ones surviving and thriving. It stems from mental illness and it's breeding like an infectious disease and it pollutes our gene pool.

Thanos has it right, if 50% of the human race disappeared in a mere second, Humanity would be better off for it.

(05-23-2018, 11:36 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-23-2018, 09:45 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]My sister is a special ed teacher and over the years, has had several students with this problem, but by learning about the kids, instead of ridiculing them, she found out they couldn't help it. In some cases, the parents were drug addicts and many times didn't pay the water bill. The kids were lucky to even get fed, much less take showers or buy deodorant. Some kids wore the same clothes over and over, because their parents were too poor or too lazy to wash their clothes or even buy clothes that fit. When I was a kid myself, I was blind to a lot of this stuff. I had good parents, who although we were far from rich, they always got me the stuff I needed and made sure I was clean and had nice clothes for school. Not everyone is so lucky. Some kids are born to parents who either just don't care, are sadistic piles of trash or are too poor to buy them the daily essentials. It's not the fault of the kids, yet they have to go through the degradation and humiliation of being bullied every day for being unclean.

My wife is a special ed teacher and we've dealt with the scum of the Earth abusing her students. THIS shooter was none of those things, he was a trench coat wearing, commie and Nazi lapel pin sporting, brat who shot up a girl who turned him down. Again, the problem and solution is squarely in the home.

Astute observation. The weapons he used were taken from his father's stash.

(05-25-2018, 11:18 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-23-2018, 11:36 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]My wife is a special ed teacher and we've dealt with the scum of the Earth abusing her students. THIS shooter was none of those things, he was a trench coat wearing, commie and Nazi lapel pin sporting, brat who shot up a girl who turned him down. Again, the problem and solution is squarely in the home.

Astute observation. The weapons he used were taken from his father's stash.

Yep, problem #10 or so on the list, but a problem nonetheless.

(05-25-2018, 10:51 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-25-2018, 12:29 AM)Jagfan44 Wrote: [ -> ]I have always thought it is ridiculous all of you guys trying to out smart one another on this forum. 

However, I've got to stick up for my people here. 

First off, what would you define as a "soft" science?

You are talking about 5.5 million people vs 320 million. I would have to say that is a big difference. 

Your post screams of ignorance. I know this is way off topic but goodness, just do a Google search. Finland, per capita is one of the most innovative countries in the world. 

As I stated, I used Nobel prizes a a criterion because it was a readily available quantitative measure. I view it in the same way I view using the Pro Bowl to evaluate GMs. It's not really accurate, but it's not totally inaccurate either, and it's easy to compile.

I'm calling physics, chemistry, and biology (including medicine) the "hard"sciences that have Nobel prizes. The others are economics, literature, and peace. The criteria for those three prizes delve deeply into politics. The science prizes can be affected by political considerations too, but are generally more objective. Maybe you'd like to comment on whether the Swedes look favorably or unfavorably at a scientists from another Scandinavian country? Offhand, I'd guess that if anything it would be a political advantage to come from Finland in this case.

As far as "sticking up for my people" does that mean you are from Finland? If so, I'm always happy to see Jags fans from foreign countries, even the clueless Leftists who post about American politics. My post was about sticking up for my people, namely the US education system. I have many complaints about US schools, but I don't like to have them called inferior to some other country, especially from a foreigner posting here.

Now if you want to complain about my statements, at least do the math.

320 is 58 times more than 5.5.  The US has had a combined (roughly since it's from a Google search graph) 250 Nobels in Physics, Chemistry, and Biology, so, all things being equal, you'd expect 4 or 5 people from a country of 5.5 million to win a Nobel prize in those fields. The original poster claimed Finland has a better educational system, so that would imply there should be significantly more than 4 or 5. 

Only one Finn has ever won a Nobel prize in those categories.

There are, of course, many factors here. Many of the US citizens who won Nobel prizes were naturalized citizens educated in other countries. There's a time factor too since the discussion of educational quality is about recent times, so older Nobel prize winners don't apply. Considering the one Finn who won a Nobel prize had an education that predates the existence of Finland, that number goes to zero. We all know what happens when you divide by zero, the number of Americans educated in the US school system vs. the number of Finns educated in the Finnish school system becomes infinite.

And yes, none of this applies to school shootings. Like I said above, I was just defending my people.

Fair enough. I understand what hard sciences are, I just figured the word "difficult" was a better fit. 

Although I have lived here in the United States since I was three, I was born in Finland, thank you for asking. 

I can completely relate with you about sticking up for your country. I have been an American Citizen for many years. Although I do speak the language and I visit from time to time, I would never go back to Finland. With that said, I do recognize that some things are better in Europe and in a small country like Finland the socialist system works. I am more proud of the fact that I am an American than most people who were born here. The rights and liberties that we have here are not something that most of the world has. Not to mention, people here in the States can truly become something. With what I personally do for a living, between the small population and high taxes I would not be as successful in Finland as I can be here in this country.

When it comes to things that matter more to Finland, like Ice Hockey, I've got to root for them even if they are playing the U.S.

I understand there is a contradiction with Finland being socialist, in regards to high taxes and good schools, however you have to give credit to the Finnish school system. It is far and beyond better than the system we have in place here in the States. Does being a homogenous country help? IMO, yes, I won't deny that. To become a teacher in Finland you are required to have a Masters Degree and the profession itself is one that is respected. As far as the schools something that stands out to me is the fact that there are no Honors classes. Every student is treated the same. While the argument can be made that this holds some children back, other children are not in a place to feel inferior. I know when I was in High School I was there to play football, school did not interest me however having classmates that were in AP classes was absolutely a discouragement. 

Finland, having been a part of both Russia and Sweden at different times has had to face an uphill battle that many other countries have not, a good example being Sweden. Not that I am discreting Sweden in any way, but considering Finland had no choice but to fight on both sides of WWII while Sweden remained neutral. Finland did receive help from Sweden, while the UK declared war on us. This remains true to this day with a military designed not to attack, but to defend against yet another eventual Russian invasion. If you enjoy WWII history read about Finland during WWII, very interesting and as FLSportsGod pointed out, we whooped some Soviet behind!

Up until fairly recently the Finnish economy was based on natural resources, mainly timber. While timber is still a large part of the economy, Finland has done an outstanding job of investing in their future by making the school system what it is today. There are lots of tech companies coming out of Finland. While he may not have have won a Nobel Prize, Linus Torvalds created Linux and has been awarded numerous awards. We all know about Nokia, and a video game that I enjoy made by Supercell, Clash of Clans. I don't feel the need to Google this, but I can say with confidence that there is a correlation between the tech industry and schools. 

Obviously here in the U.S. we have tech giants, even Torvald himself is now a naturalized U.S. citizen just as I am. I would say Capitalism plays a large part, why be content with less money when you can make more here in America?

(05-26-2018, 11:17 AM)Jagfan44 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-25-2018, 10:51 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]As I stated, I used Nobel prizes a a criterion because it was a readily available quantitative measure. I view it in the same way I view using the Pro Bowl to evaluate GMs. It's not really accurate, but it's not totally inaccurate either, and it's easy to compile.

I'm calling physics, chemistry, and biology (including medicine) the "hard"sciences that have Nobel prizes. The others are economics, literature, and peace. The criteria for those three prizes delve deeply into politics. The science prizes can be affected by political considerations too, but are generally more objective. Maybe you'd like to comment on whether the Swedes look favorably or unfavorably at a scientists from another Scandinavian country? Offhand, I'd guess that if anything it would be a political advantage to come from Finland in this case.

As far as "sticking up for my people" does that mean you are from Finland? If so, I'm always happy to see Jags fans from foreign countries, even the clueless Leftists who post about American politics. My post was about sticking up for my people, namely the US education system. I have many complaints about US schools, but I don't like to have them called inferior to some other country, especially from a foreigner posting here.

Now if you want to complain about my statements, at least do the math.

320 is 58 times more than 5.5.  The US has had a combined (roughly since it's from a Google search graph) 250 Nobels in Physics, Chemistry, and Biology, so, all things being equal, you'd expect 4 or 5 people from a country of 5.5 million to win a Nobel prize in those fields. The original poster claimed Finland has a better educational system, so that would imply there should be significantly more than 4 or 5. 

Only one Finn has ever won a Nobel prize in those categories.

There are, of course, many factors here. Many of the US citizens who won Nobel prizes were naturalized citizens educated in other countries. There's a time factor too since the discussion of educational quality is about recent times, so older Nobel prize winners don't apply. Considering the one Finn who won a Nobel prize had an education that predates the existence of Finland, that number goes to zero. We all know what happens when you divide by zero, the number of Americans educated in the US school system vs. the number of Finns educated in the Finnish school system becomes infinite.

And yes, none of this applies to school shootings. Like I said above, I was just defending my people.

Fair enough. I understand what hard sciences are, I just figured the word "difficult" was a better fit. 

Although I have lived here in the United States since I was three, I was born in Finland, thank you for asking. 

I can completely relate with you about sticking up for your country. I have been an American Citizen for many years. Although I do speak the language and I visit from time to time, I would never go back to Finland. With that said, I do recognize that some things are better in Europe and in a small country like Finland the socialist system works. I am more proud of the fact that I am an American than most people who were born here. The rights and liberties that we have here are not something that most of the world has. Not to mention, people here in the States can truly become something. With what I personally do for a living, between the small population and high taxes I would not be as successful in Finland as I can be here in this country.

When it comes to things that matter more to Finland, like Ice Hockey, I've got to root for them even if they are playing the U.S.

I understand there is a contradiction with Finland being socialist, in regards to high taxes and good schools, however you have to give credit to the Finnish school system. It is far and beyond better than the system we have in place here in the States. Does being a homogenous country help? IMO, yes, I won't deny that. To become a teacher in Finland you are required to have a Masters Degree and the profession itself is one that is respected. As far as the schools something that stands out to me is the fact that there are no Honors classes. Every student is treated the same. While the argument can be made that this holds some children back, other children are not in a place to feel inferior. I know when I was in High School I was there to play football, school did not interest me however having classmates that were in AP classes was absolutely a discouragement. 

Finland, having been a part of both Russia and Sweden at different times has had to face an uphill battle that many other countries have not, a good example being Sweden. Not that I am discreting Sweden in any way, but considering Finland had no choice but to fight on both sides of WWII while Sweden remained neutral. Finland did receive help from Sweden, while the UK declared war on us. This remains true to this day with a military designed not to attack, but to defend against yet another eventual Russian invasion. If you enjoy WWII history read about Finland during WWII, very interesting and as FLSportsGod pointed out, we whooped some Soviet behind!

Up until fairly recently the Finnish economy was based on natural resources, mainly timber. While timber is still a large part of the economy, Finland has done an outstanding job of investing in their future by making the school system what it is today. There are lots of tech companies coming out of Finland. While he may not have have won a Nobel Prize, Linus Torvalds created Linux and has been awarded numerous awards. We all know about Nokia, and a video game that I enjoy made by Supercell, Clash of Clans. I don't feel the need to Google this, but I can say with confidence that there is a correlation between the tech industry and schools. 

Obviously here in the U.S. we have tech giants, even Torvald himself is now a naturalized U.S. citizen just as I am. I would say Capitalism plays a large part, why be content with less money when you can make more here in America?

A bit off topic:
I love hearing a perspective like this. In my opinion, most Americans take for granted what opportunities they are provided at birth. Nowhere else in the world can you prosper as you can here, if you are willing just to put forth the effort. On the flip, there is also an inherent ignorance of Americans believing everything the U.S. does is better than everyone else. There is a ton we could learn from other countries and visa' versa. One thing that is evident in almost all countries versus what we have here in America, is national pride. Sadly, that no longer exists in the United States, at least on the level of most countries.

(05-26-2018, 12:07 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-26-2018, 11:17 AM)Jagfan44 Wrote: [ -> ]Fair enough. I understand what hard sciences are, I just figured the word "difficult" was a better fit. 

Although I have lived here in the United States since I was three, I was born in Finland, thank you for asking. 

I can completely relate with you about sticking up for your country. I have been an American Citizen for many years. Although I do speak the language and I visit from time to time, I would never go back to Finland. With that said, I do recognize that some things are better in Europe and in a small country like Finland the socialist system works. I am more proud of the fact that I am an American than most people who were born here. The rights and liberties that we have here are not something that most of the world has. Not to mention, people here in the States can truly become something. With what I personally do for a living, between the small population and high taxes I would not be as successful in Finland as I can be here in this country.

When it comes to things that matter more to Finland, like Ice Hockey, I've got to root for them even if they are playing the U.S.

I understand there is a contradiction with Finland being socialist, in regards to high taxes and good schools, however you have to give credit to the Finnish school system. It is far and beyond better than the system we have in place here in the States. Does being a homogenous country help? IMO, yes, I won't deny that. To become a teacher in Finland you are required to have a Masters Degree and the profession itself is one that is respected. As far as the schools something that stands out to me is the fact that there are no Honors classes. Every student is treated the same. While the argument can be made that this holds some children back, other children are not in a place to feel inferior. I know when I was in High School I was there to play football, school did not interest me however having classmates that were in AP classes was absolutely a discouragement. 

Finland, having been a part of both Russia and Sweden at different times has had to face an uphill battle that many other countries have not, a good example being Sweden. Not that I am discreting Sweden in any way, but considering Finland had no choice but to fight on both sides of WWII while Sweden remained neutral. Finland did receive help from Sweden, while the UK declared war on us. This remains true to this day with a military designed not to attack, but to defend against yet another eventual Russian invasion. If you enjoy WWII history read about Finland during WWII, very interesting and as FLSportsGod pointed out, we whooped some Soviet behind!

Up until fairly recently the Finnish economy was based on natural resources, mainly timber. While timber is still a large part of the economy, Finland has done an outstanding job of investing in their future by making the school system what it is today. There are lots of tech companies coming out of Finland. While he may not have have won a Nobel Prize, Linus Torvalds created Linux and has been awarded numerous awards. We all know about Nokia, and a video game that I enjoy made by Supercell, Clash of Clans. I don't feel the need to Google this, but I can say with confidence that there is a correlation between the tech industry and schools. 

Obviously here in the U.S. we have tech giants, even Torvald himself is now a naturalized U.S. citizen just as I am. I would say Capitalism plays a large part, why be content with less money when you can make more here in America?

A bit off topic:
I love hearing a perspective like this. In my opinion, most Americans take for granted what opportunities they are provided at birth. Nowhere else in the world can you prosper as you can here, if you are willing just to put forth the effort. On the flip, there is also an inherent ignorance of Americans believing everything the U.S. does is better than everyone else. There is a ton we could learn from other countries and visa' versa. One thing that is evident in almost all countries versus what we have here in America, is national pride. Sadly, that no longer exists in the United States, at least on the level of most countries.

When Americans show pride it's derided as Nationalism and we're compared to Nazis, or it's called White Supremacy and we're labeled Klansmen, or we're called overly sensitive snowflakes, or tools of the patriarchy, or the greatest threast to world peace on Earth. It's tiresome.

(05-23-2018, 11:50 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-23-2018, 11:04 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Do you deny that in every one of those 22 incidents, it was a shooting of a gun at a human target in a school? Every synopsis had a link, every incident reported by other sources. Were they all mass shootings like the ones in Texas and Florida? No, but the criteria used were clearly stated in the beginning of the CNN article. You didn't know that, because you "gorged" on the article you linked, with no follow-up on your part. It fit your world view, you gobbled it up like saltines. 

The irony here is we are essentially arguing over semantics, whether or not CNN improperly used the term "school shootings", then your supposedly enlightening (though interesting, thanks) link was to an FBI site where the topic is Active Shooters. 

You brought up CNN, not me. I'm not comfortable defending CNN, they get too fixated. I merely addressed your post. My choice of morning viewing is Dan Patrick and reruns of That 70's Show. The news channels are noise. Looking at the tone of our posts, do you really have the lack of self-awareness to claim I'm the one flailing my arms? None of this affects my life in any way.

a School Shooting is defined as Columbine-like shootings to everyone with a brain.

A dude going in a school and shooting his ex ain't a school shooting.

A driveby near a school ain't a school shooting. (hell if it were Sandalwood would have had one or two a year every year)

shhhhhh  you'll scare the children.

(05-25-2018, 11:03 AM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ]I have a bit more of a controversial opinion on this, but it basically stems from the fact that there's too many people on this planet. Living is too easy, the strongest and best of our species aren't the only ones surviving and thriving. It stems from mental illness and it's breeding like an infectious disease and it pollutes our gene pool.

Thanos has it right, if 50% of the human race disappeared in a mere second, Humanity would be better off for it.

what's controversial about that?  We've been faithfully pursuing that policy for the last half century.  Have you not been paying attention?

Steve Jobs talked about the internet as a bicycle, making man the most efficient organism on the planet. Unfortunately, everyone has access to that technology. So when it comes to acts like this there is a universal Roger Bannister effect that we will never be able to reverse. Some use their bicycle to do good, some to do unspeakable evil. We are all exposed to external stimulus far exceeding anything throughout human history. At the blink of an eye or the snap of a finger this kid could look up how to make pipe bombs, read diaries of school shooters and pull up media depicting school shooters as empathetic, heroic, idealistic or whatever or even play the Doom Levels created by one of the columbine shooters.

Home life is critical to mitigating these kinds of things, but it will never be eliminated. Why? Because human beings have an irrevocable pull to dehumanize and harm. No matter how well prepared we are, we will all be exposed to rejection, humiliation, failure and any number of negative externalities that can give cause to anger rage hatred and the like.