(11-02-2018, 12:02 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2018, 11:59 AM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ]Our best bet is to sign someone like McCown or Fitzpatrick, although I doubt Fitzpatrick is available next year. McCown is actually pretty decent.
Perhaps if we can trade Blake for a 3rd day pick, we can use the savings to trade for Jimmy G now that the 49ers look set with Mullens.
Lol. A lot of funny stuff in this post
(11-02-2018, 11:01 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Its funny how people always want to replace Parnell but he has been our 2nd best lineman the last 3 years. Parnell will be here 1 more year after this one.
He was great last year. This year he's been great in run support but awful in pass pro (and don't come at me with some weak PFF stuff because I can't even with that right now lol)
If we're in position to get a really good LT in this draft we could slide Cam to RT. Richardson is in the mix too.
Although, he is relatively cheap... so maybe he sticks around. But we clear 6 mil in cap if he's cut.
Some cuts will have to be made before 2020 looking at who's been drafted Taven, Harrison, Richardson it's easy to see them trying to cut money at those positions.
Perhaps Jackson instead of Campbell if they move Taven back to 3T instead of big end.
(11-02-2018, 12:40 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2018, 11:01 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Its funny how people always want to replace Parnell but he has been our 2nd best lineman the last 3 years. Parnell will be here 1 more year after this one.
He was great last year. This year he's been great in run support but awful in pass pro (and don't come at me with some weak PFF stuff because I can't even with that right now lol)
If we're in position to get a really good LT in this draft we could slide Cam to RT. Richardson is in the mix too.
Although, he is relatively cheap... so maybe he sticks around. But we clear 6 mil in cap if he's cut.
Some cuts will have to be made before 2020 looking at who's been drafted Taven, Harrison, Richardson it's easy to see them trying to cut money at those positions.
Perhaps Jackson instead of Campbell if they move Taven back to 3T instead of big end.
Outside of the Chiefs game he has had a good season. He only has trouble with the better speed rushers. He is our 2nd best lineman and we have him at a good price. I would like to draft another tackle but he wont start over Parnell his rookie year unless we get one of the top tackle prospects. Dont really care what Pff said about him just use your 2 eyes. Both guards and the LT position has played worse than Parnell.
Not to mention there are no speed rushers in the division that give Parnell trouble. In dont think you want to cut your 2nd best lineman to clear 6 mil cap space when you oline already is playing poorly, not very smart imo
Why rebuild when you need to upgrade ONE position? I'm confused.
Just playing this game for a minute, I don’t think we can rebuild unless we jettison Blake.
He’s guaranteed a lot of money next year - so do we do a Brock Osweiler and hand another team a draft pick to take him off our hands?
(11-02-2018, 11:37 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-01-2018, 08:03 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]They wouldn't have put the offsets in there if they didn't envision a scenario where they'd end up cutting him. I do believe the small guaranteed portion of his deal next year ($6.5 million) is basically going to force him to re-do his deal here if he wants to stay and start/mentor a rookie to take over next year. They're simply not going to pay him $21 million next year based on where we're at with him at this moment. If he goes on a run and we crawl our way back into the playoffs, maybe things change for him. If they are forced to cut him next year, however, they'd only owe him the $6.5 million and probably less due to the offsets.
The dead money means nothing to Blake. That's a team number. They could easily tell him they'd like to keep him if he'll re-sign on a 1 or 2 year deal for $13 mil per year or some other arbitrary low end bridge QB salary which lowers the team's cap hit, guarantees Blake a much bigger pay day than he's currently guaranteed to get and if it's a 2 year deal they could have most if not all of the guarantees in year 1 so there is little to no dead money issue the following year. The current deal provides the team leverage in not moving forward with his current deal one way or another. If you're Blake and you're facing getting cut and making $6.5 million for 2019 or the team says we want you to stay for somewhere in the $13 to $15 million range and we'll fully guarantee it prior to training camp, which would you choose? No one is trading anything for him at a $21 million salary for 2019 unless part of the trade involves him reworking his deal. And even then, why would anyone want to trade for him based on his career to date? Everything else has to be right for him to be successful consistently. There's a lot of back ups in the league that could probably provide that for a lot less money.
Him playing on his current contract next year seems like a highly unlikely scenario to me right now. Even the most anti-Bortles Jags fans shouldn't have a problem having him here next year at a much lower number in a bridge/mentor/eventual back up role.
You're confusing numbers here. You said, "No one is trading anything for him at a $21 million salary for 2019 unless part of the trade involves him reworking his deal." The $21 mil is his cap hit, which includes a $5 mil signing bonus hit from his last signing bonus. His base salary is only $16 mil, which is all his new team would have to pay him short of re-working his deal.
Again, Blakes cap hit if he plays is $21 mil. If they cut him, his remaining $10 mil in bonus amortization counts along with the additional $6.5 mil guaranteed salary. It's possible that $6.5 mil number could go down with the offsets which would only be the case if his new team actually paid him less than that as a backup. I don't know that we can count on that happening, so chances are we'll owe the full $6.5 mil. When you including the $10 bonus amortization, that makes his dead money hit $16.5 mil. The total savings for 2019 would be $4.5 mil.
If the team was loaded with available cash this would be easy to do, however, we're over the cap and have to make moves just to get under. To free up a mere $4.5 mil with no starting QB in place on the roster puts the Jaguars in a very tough situation.
Now, if they hang onto Blake for one more year at $21 mil, and then cut him after 2019, the team would only have to account for his final $5 mil signing bonus hit. Compared to his contracted $23 mil cap hit for 2020, that would be an $18 mil savings leaving the Jaguars in much better shape to go out and sign a proven vet should Blake not redeem himself by then.
If we make the move this year instead, you can pretty much forget about any decent free agent QBs. The Jaguars would literally be forced to go QB with their first pick, and every team out there would know it. Some of those teams might look to move ahead of the Jaguars, so to get our QB we're talking about trading even more picks. It's just really not an ideal situation.
Mea culpa. I did mistake his cap number for his salary and that changes things. However, I can't imagine he's out of the league next year so if cut there would be some offset on the $6.5 million. The offset wasn't put in there for [BLEEP] and giggles. They would have had to have envisioned a scenario in which he's cut. Whether they're at the beginning stages of that scenario remains to be seen. He's worth at least a few million as a back up if he's forced to find a new deal next year, so to suggest the difference between cap hit and dead money is only going to be $4.5 million probably won't end up being accurate. It will probably wind up being more like a $6.5 to $7.5 million difference if he's shopping for a back up role next year and I think that's being conservative. I could see Houston valuing him in back up role or any other team that may have playoff aspirations in 2019 and a QB with an injury history. Brian Hoyer is getting $3 million in NE. Although Foles salary has jumped since his performance in the Super Bowl, he took home a little over $4 million last year on his prior deal. Bridgewater is getting $6 million this year. Schaub is averaging $4.5 million in Atlanta. Colt McCoy is averaging $3.25 million in Washington. Henne is averaging $3.3 million in KC. Glennon is getting an average of $4 million per year out in Arizona. The point is, veteran guys normally don't play back up QB for peanuts. Even where we are right now, I would probably take Bortles over most if not all of the above guys so I think he'll be just fine if he finds himself shopping for a back up QB job next year which means the offsets would come in to play in a significant way.
A trade would seem more possible looking at the proper salary figure, even though it's perhaps still improbable. I just don't see anyone trading for a bridge starter when you can usually find one in free agency. If a trade were to happen, it would probably be something like what Houston did with Osweiler where they gave a pick up to the Browns in exchange for the Browns getting Osweiler's contract off of Houston's books. If the Raiders part ways with Carr this offseason, they might be a prime candidate for such a move considering how happy Gruden has been to acquire more picks combined with their projected cap space in 2019.
So it comes down to rolling with Blake at a $21 million hit, cutting him and still realizing an approximate $14 million hit (IMO), or trading him (and probably giving up a pick to do so) and taking little to no hit. That trade to Raiders scenario sounds really good to me assuming the pick given up isn't too high.
Also, I still don't think reworking his deal is necessarily out of the question. He's still set to make $16 million with the Jags vs. $6.5 on the street or elsewhere. That's still $9.5 million worth of leverage the team has to persuade him to re-do it to something more team friendly.
(11-03-2018, 10:59 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2018, 05:55 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]...or trading him (and probably giving up a pick to do so) and taking little to no hit.
For starter, the Jaguars are sure to get a 6th or 7th round pick in a trade. We're not giving up a pick to take his salary off the books. Why would we? We're only concerned about that $6.5 mil guaranteed with the offsets and all. I'm thinking the Texans guaranteed Osweiler's entire $15 mil salary, so that's an entirely different situation. A new team could trade for Bortles wherein they would be responsible for the $6.5 mil guaranteed, and at that point, they could re-work a new deal with him to wipe out the additional salary. It's really about finding a team willing to spend $6.5 mil for Blake.
Also, we'd still take a hit in a trade because we'd have to cover that $10 mil bonus amortization as dead money, but at least we're talking about saving $11 mil... that's quite a bit better than $4.5 mil, or even $7 mil should he sign elsewhere as a backup.
Yes I see now. I was disregarding the additional $5 million cap hit from his signing bonus in 2020 which we would still need to recognize.
Could be a win/win for us and a trade partner if we can get in position to get a guy we love in the draft who can be ready to play early and be able to trade Bortles for a late round pick. The team picking him up would only have to worry about the $6.5 guarantee until he’s made the 53 man roster and would have an option on him the following year. That’s a lot of moving parts though. He’s probably going to be the starter when training camp opens next year having revisited and rethought this unless the team figures out a way to get comfortable eating approximately $13 million or so in dead cap space by just cutting him. What a terrible extension that was. I understand wanting to reward him for the end of last year and wanting to not be going into a draft without a starter on the roster, but good grief just let him play on the 5th year option like he was set to do and attempt to extend him during the season if things continued going well.
(11-01-2018, 08:28 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-01-2018, 01:21 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I think we keep Jackson and Dareus. One or both will be gone in 2020 though along with campbell
I hope you are right about this. As much as I love Calais' leadership, he has passed his prime and will not be worth the money. The remainder of this season needs to be focused on finding the guys that can be counted on moving forwards. Bryan needs to play more. Chark needs to continue getting more snaps to see if he shows signs of being the team's number 1 receiver next year.
This team has enough talent to return to the playoffs next season as long as they make better off-season moves. Number 1 priority is the offensive line for the obvious reasons. Hopefully they can find their quarterback in the first or 2nd rounds of the draft. This season's rash of injuries was as much an anomaly as 2017, just in the opposite direction. A backfield tandem of a healthy Fournette (I know, unlikely) and Hyde running behind a revamped line would be tough for defenses to deal with. As disappointing as this season has been, don't write them off for next year.
Soooooo we just gon act like this wasn't posted? Hmm. WTH? SMH!
Friendly reminder for all of you irrational folks here (there is a small army)......Any professional sports team ever assembled that is as injury stricken as this one would be struggling the same way. Its been tough to get on here and read because most people are pointing fingers at every ridiculous thing other than the biggest problem we have which is obviously the insane injury situation. The NFL is too hard to win without the majority of your best players. The difference between good teams and bad teams in NCAA football is 5 touchdowns. The difference between good teams and bad teams in the NFL is the last 8 minutes of a one possession game, which is many times won by the players that we have in street clothes on the sidelines. I just feel like we need to come to terms with the fact that it is unlikely to live up to the expectations of the 2018-2019 Jaguars whenever the product on the field is not even a fair representation of what that team even looks like.
(11-02-2018, 01:36 PM)Setsuna00 Wrote: [ -> ]Why rebuild when you need to upgrade ONE position? I'm confused.
We could use upgrade on offense at pretty much every position.
Bortles will be replaced next year with a rookie (mid/early season), both our #1 TE and RB are EXTREMELY injury prone so we can't depend on those guys. We have no true #1 WR. Aside from Westbrook, everyone else is trash. Cam is average at best, Norwell is major disappointment, and AJ is as good as gone.
(11-07-2018, 10:58 AM)SodaCityJag14 Wrote: [ -> ]Friendly reminder for all of you irrational folks here (there is a small army)......Any professional sports team ever assembled that is as injury stricken as this one would be struggling the same way. Its been tough to get on here and read because most people are pointing fingers at every ridiculous thing other than the biggest problem we have which is obviously the insane injury situation. The NFL is too hard to win without the majority of your best players. The difference between good teams and bad teams in NCAA football is 5 touchdowns. The difference between good teams and bad teams in the NFL is the last 8 minutes of a one possession game, which is many times won by the players that we have in street clothes on the sidelines. I just feel like we need to come to terms with the fact that it is unlikely to live up to the expectations of the 2018-2019 Jaguars whenever the product on the field is not even a fair representation of what that team even looks like.
you sir know what you are talking about.
Its nice to see some reality driven folks in here. 90% of the members, fans, and bandwagon riders from last year are delusional.
Trade Bortles...lol.
When can we cut Norwell? A very disappointing season for him.
Agreed. We went through this before. 2005 we were a 12 - 4 WC team in the play-offs. 2006 we fell to 8 - 8 after a slew of injuries along the offensive line and at the QB position. Then we rebounded in 2007 and went back to the play-offs with an 11 - 5 record.
I think we can get back on track late this year. 8 - 8 / 9 - 7 is very possible. I think the F.O will learn from this year and make sure they have every position more up to par going forward in 2019.
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(11-07-2018, 12:01 PM)JaG4LyFe Wrote: [ -> ]...
When can we cut Norwell? A very disappointing season for him.
They actually do have an out clause on his contract after 2019 that leaves them with 9 mil in dead cap, but saves them around 36 million over 2020-2022.
I'm actually really interested to see if he can step up his play as the season wears on despite having scrubs lined up to his left from here on out.
His play prior to this signing was so much better that I still wonder if he'll come around and earn some of that guaranteed money.
(11-07-2018, 12:21 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2018, 12:01 PM)JaG4LyFe Wrote: [ -> ]...
When can we cut Norwell? A very disappointing season for him.
They actually do have an out clause on his contract after 2019 that leaves them with 9 mil in dead cap, but saves them around 36 million over 2020-2022.
I'm actually really interested to see if he can step up his play as the season wears on despite having scrubs lined up to his left from here on out.
His play prior to this signing was so much better that I still wonder if he'll come around and earn some of that guaranteed money.
I'm not ready to get rid of Norwell just yet.
He hasn't been great but he hasn't been terrible every game. He also came to a new team, dealt with an injury early, and has had to deal with whoever is at LT screwing up too.
Combine it with our QB and run game problems (which aren't exactly stemmed from poor OL play).
On the same note... OL's go from being elite to trash in a single season sometimes (Dallas and Oakland come to mind)... so not crazy to think his play could have dropped off a bit.
(11-02-2018, 01:36 PM)Setsuna00 Wrote: [ -> ]Why rebuild when you need to upgrade ONE position? I'm confused.
If you factor in chronic injuries dating back to the players college days, there are 3 glaring positions that need to be addressed --- WR-TE-RB as Marquis Lee, ASJ, and Fournette have a long history of injuries.
Personally, if I were Founette, I'd sit as long as possible to limit the carries over the next few years then bust out in his contract year and get a big contract (unlike Le'Veon who is damaged goods due to his 2 billion carries and pass receptions)
(11-07-2018, 11:38 AM)Jay Carter 904 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2018, 10:58 AM)SodaCityJag14 Wrote: [ -> ]Friendly reminder for all of you irrational folks here (there is a small army)......Any professional sports team ever assembled that is as injury stricken as this one would be struggling the same way. Its been tough to get on here and read because most people are pointing fingers at every ridiculous thing other than the biggest problem we have which is obviously the insane injury situation. The NFL is too hard to win without the majority of your best players. The difference between good teams and bad teams in NCAA football is 5 touchdowns. The difference between good teams and bad teams in the NFL is the last 8 minutes of a one possession game, which is many times won by the players that we have in street clothes on the sidelines. I just feel like we need to come to terms with the fact that it is unlikely to live up to the expectations of the 2018-2019 Jaguars whenever the product on the field is not even a fair representation of what that team even looks like.
you sir know what you are talking about.
Its nice to see some reality driven folks in here. 90% of the members, fans, and bandwagon riders from last year are delusional.
I agree completely. I don't think enough people appreciate what the fifty-three man roster means in the NFL. The great equalizer. You miss a few of the wrong people/positions and you've fallen down a deep well.
I've always thought that the best predictor of how a team will do is schedule/injuries. How healthy is your team when you play certain teams and how healthy are they when they show up on your schedule.
(11-07-2018, 01:57 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2018, 01:36 PM)Setsuna00 Wrote: [ -> ]Why rebuild when you need to upgrade ONE position? I'm confused.
If you factor in chronic injuries dating back to the players college days, there are 3 glaring positions that need to be addressed --- WR-TE-RB as Marquis Lee, ASJ, and Fournette have a long history of injuries.
Personally, if I were Founette, I'd sit as long as possible to limit the carries over the next few years then bust out in his contract year and get a big contract (unlike Le'Veon who is damaged goods due to his 2 billion carries and pass receptions)
The thing is the FO has at least attempted to upgrade all 3 of those positions. Except the one that actually makes those three relevant. The guy getting them the the football. So again I'm confused.