(11-07-2018, 10:58 AM)SodaCityJag14 Wrote: [ -> ]Friendly reminder for all of you irrational folks here (there is a small army)......Any professional sports team ever assembled that is as injury stricken as this one would be struggling the same way. Its been tough to get on here and read because most people are pointing fingers at every ridiculous thing other than the biggest problem we have which is obviously the insane injury situation. The NFL is too hard to win without the majority of your best players. The difference between good teams and bad teams in NCAA football is 5 touchdowns. The difference between good teams and bad teams in the NFL is the last 8 minutes of a one possession game, which is many times won by the players that we have in street clothes on the sidelines. I just feel like we need to come to terms with the fact that it is unlikely to live up to the expectations of the 2018-2019 Jaguars whenever the product on the field is not even a fair representation of what that team even looks like.
Well said, injuries can destroy a season regardless of talent. I merely point you to Green Bay with one of the greatest QB's of all time yet is always surrounded by rookies and guys off the street as injuries take what little talent is available. It's a cruel way to lose a season but it happens.
(11-07-2018, 02:18 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2018, 10:58 AM)SodaCityJag14 Wrote: [ -> ]Friendly reminder for all of you irrational folks here (there is a small army)......Any professional sports team ever assembled that is as injury stricken as this one would be struggling the same way. Its been tough to get on here and read because most people are pointing fingers at every ridiculous thing other than the biggest problem we have which is obviously the insane injury situation. The NFL is too hard to win without the majority of your best players. The difference between good teams and bad teams in NCAA football is 5 touchdowns. The difference between good teams and bad teams in the NFL is the last 8 minutes of a one possession game, which is many times won by the players that we have in street clothes on the sidelines. I just feel like we need to come to terms with the fact that it is unlikely to live up to the expectations of the 2018-2019 Jaguars whenever the product on the field is not even a fair representation of what that team even looks like.
Well said, injuries can destroy a season regardless of talent. I merely point you to Green Bay with one of the greatest QB's of all time yet is always surrounded by rookies and guys off the street as injuries take what little talent is available. It's a cruel way to lose a season but it happens.
Not to compare the two but that factors into our situation here. Its a team game.
I think this thread shows how beaten a fan base we are. We only know tear it all down rebuilds. We haven't reloaded for years. That's all we need, we have a core of very good young players to build around. Now we have easy money to save. On over the cap, we are $6.2m over at the moment. Moncrief is on a one year deal at $9m, hell be gone. I'm sure we'll try to restructure one or more of Calais, Malik and Dareus, that's where a lot of the money goes and were ok. Bortles will be here next year, maybe as a back up and then let go in 2020 for a small hit.
We just need to make a few changes here and there, add some depth but I hope people aren't deluding themselves that we are aiming to be a Chiefs/Rams O next season.
(11-07-2018, 02:25 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I think this thread shows how beaten a fan base we are. We only know year it all down rebuilds. We haven't reloaded for years. That's all we need, we have a core of very good young players to build around. Now we have easy money to save. On over the cap, we are $6.2m over at the moment. Moncrief is on a one year deal at $9m, hell be gone. I'm sure we'll try to restructure one or more of Calais, Malik and Dareus, that's where a lot of the money goes and were ok. Bortles will be here next year, maybe as a back up and then let go in 2020 for a small hit.
We just need to make a few changes here and there, add some depth but I hope people aren't deluding themselves that we are aiming to be a Chiefs/Rams O next season.
+1
(11-07-2018, 02:22 PM)Jay Carter 904 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2018, 02:18 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Well said, injuries can destroy a season regardless of talent. I merely point you to Green Bay with one of the greatest QB's of all time yet is always surrounded by rookies and guys off the street as injuries take what little talent is available. It's a cruel way to lose a season but it happens.
Not to compare the two but that factors into our situation here. Its a team game.
Exactly. Some people are acting like if we have a great QB them everything will click. My point is you need to build a team. O and D. You can't keep losing starter quality and get rookies or guys on their couch to suddenly match that level. Yes you could improve depth but no team plans for using your 6th and 7th DB's at the start of the season.
the team would still be haveing loseing issues even without the injurys. Before the injurys this was a 8-8 team. the offensse looked bad before the injurys except maybe the patriots game.
(11-07-2018, 02:32 PM)snowwolf776 Wrote: [ -> ]the team would still be haveing loseing issues even without the injurys. Before the injurys this was a 8-8 team. the offensse looked bad before the injurys except maybe the patriots game.
What team were you watching?
(11-07-2018, 02:29 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2018, 02:22 PM)Jay Carter 904 Wrote: [ -> ]Not to compare the two but that factors into our situation here. Its a team game.
Exactly. Some people are acting like if we have a great QB them everything will click. My point is you need to build a team. O and D. You can't keep losing starter quality and get rookies or guys on their couch to suddenly match that level. Yes you could improve depth but no team plans for using your 6th and 7th DB's at the start of the season.
Or our 4th and 5th TE or our 3rd or 4th LT.
LT is such an important position. You're lucky if you have 1 good one on your roster and we are down to undrafted guys and Erik Flowers who hasn't seen the field.
(11-07-2018, 02:29 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. Some people are acting like if we have a great QB them everything will click. My point is you need to build a team. O and D. You can't keep losing starter quality and get rookies or guys on their couch to suddenly match that level. Yes you could improve depth but no team plans for using your 6th and 7th DB's at the start of the season.
Or our 4th and 5th TE or our 3rd or 4th LT.
LT is such an important position. You're lucky if you have 1 good one on your roster and we are down to undrafted guys and Erik Flowers who hasn't seen the field.
Exactly, we have our back up C at LT! We have a few guys like Reed, Wells, Walker who can plug and play a few different spots but none of them are starters for a reason. And when you factor in some of the 'RE that we have been up against, I don't know how much more we can expect from Walker.
TE last year, we had Mercedes refinding some youth and had a really good year. This year it hasn't really done much for us and I like ASJ and O'Shaugnessey is just a worker, but injuries have just destroyed it. Grinnage starting 2 weeks after joining! It's crazy. Plus it's the knock on effect with pass blocking, run blocking, any pass play with a TE route, can they run that route? That then starts affecting the playbook and how much you can use.
That's the problem with injuries, you can plug one or two but more than that means changing how you play.
(11-07-2018, 02:25 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I think this thread shows how beaten a fan base we are. We only know tear it all down rebuilds. We haven't reloaded for years. That's all we need, we have a core of very good young players to build around. Now we have easy money to save. On over the cap, we are $6.2m over at the moment. Moncrief is on a one year deal at $9m, hell be gone. I'm sure we'll try to restructure one or more of Calais, Malik and Dareus, that's where a lot of the money goes and were ok. Bortles will be here next year, maybe as a back up and then let go in 2020 for a small hit.
We just need to make a few changes here and there, add some depth but I hope people aren't deluding themselves that we are aiming to be a Chiefs/Rams O next season.
Oh there is no doubt about that. The South Carolina Gamecocks board I am on is the most glass half empty place on the planet because it is all we have known since the 1800's. When Clemson loses a game, the refs, other team, America, the media, ESPN, God all cheated them. It is never their fault because they are the greatest team/fan base/wonder of the world to ever exist in their minds. When the Gamecocks lose it is because we suck and we will always suck and whenever someone or something good ends up in our program, it becomes infected with suck and therefore sucks forever. Its tough to overcome.
No rebuild necessary. This isn't 2012. There's pretty good talent here already but a few key spots need to be upgraded and some need to get healthy. We need consistent play out of the QB spot. A few updates to the roster will do wonders.
You can add all of our average to below average injured players back and we're still not competing for a super bowl this year. Regression was bound to happen after we got just about as lucky as possible from every aspect, and our FO didn't plan for that.
(11-07-2018, 05:18 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]You can add all of our average to below average injured players back and we're still not competing for a super bowl this year. Regression was bound to happen after we got just about as lucky as possible from every aspect, and our FO didn't plan for that.
(Nick young face)
(11-07-2018, 02:25 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I think this thread shows how beaten a fan base we are. We only know tear it all down rebuilds. We haven't reloaded for years. That's all we need, we have a core of very good young players to build around. Now we have easy money to save. On over the cap, we are $6.2m over at the moment. Moncrief is on a one year deal at $9m, hell be gone. I'm sure we'll try to restructure one or more of Calais, Malik and Dareus, that's where a lot of the money goes and were ok. Bortles will be here next year, maybe as a back up and then let go in 2020 for a small hit.
We just need to make a few changes here and there, add some depth but I hope people aren't deluding themselves that we are aiming to be a Chiefs/Rams O next season.
I agree with your assessment. The frustration of our fan base is understandable given the high expectations most people had for this team this season. There are certainly enough quality players returning next season for this team to make another run to go deep into the playoffs. I am concerned with the recent regression in our 2 key linebackers. If those guys can revert back to their play at the end of last season, the defense can be great again. I hope they are able to retain at least 2 of Calais, Malik and Dareus. The most obvious and redundant question is what to do with Bortles. As poor as he has been, do they keep him one more season or just let him go? It's obvious he'll never be great, but is he good enough to eventually take the team 2 steps further than last season? The coaching staff didn't trust him to win the Patriots game last season when the game got into crunch time. If their opinion hasn't changed, they need to go in another direction after this season. My guess is that they will let him go since this team is too decimated by injuries to recover this season. They need to take the highest rated q.b. when they pick, which will likely be somewhere in the 10-15 range. Hebert will be gone, but they are way overdue to "hit" on a 1st round quarterback (Leftwich, Gabbert and Bortles). I'll leave the scouting to more knowledgeable people, but I do believe there will be 1 guy on the board who has a good chance to be a franchise quarterback. For the sake of our diehard fans, Caldwell or the new G.M.
better get it right.
(11-08-2018, 10:59 AM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2018, 02:25 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I think this thread shows how beaten a fan base we are. We only know tear it all down rebuilds. We haven't reloaded for years. That's all we need, we have a core of very good young players to build around. Now we have easy money to save. On over the cap, we are $6.2m over at the moment. Moncrief is on a one year deal at $9m, hell be gone. I'm sure we'll try to restructure one or more of Calais, Malik and Dareus, that's where a lot of the money goes and were ok. Bortles will be here next year, maybe as a back up and then let go in 2020 for a small hit.
We just need to make a few changes here and there, add some depth but I hope people aren't deluding themselves that we are aiming to be a Chiefs/Rams O next season.
I agree with your assessment. The frustration of our fan base is understandable given the high expectations most people had for this team this season. There are certainly enough quality players returning next season for this team to make another run to go deep into the playoffs. I am concerned with the recent regression in our 2 key linebackers. If those guys can revert back to their play at the end of last season, the defense can be great again. I hope they are able to retain at least 2 of Calais, Malik and Dareus. The most obvious and redundant question is what to do with Bortles. As poor as he has been, do they keep him one more season or just let him go? It's obvious he'll never be great, but is he good enough to eventually take the team 2 steps further than last season? The coaching staff didn't trust him to win the Patriots game last season when the game got into crunch time. If their opinion hasn't changed, they need to go in another direction after this season. My guess is that they will let him go since this team is too decimated by injuries to recover this season. They need to take the highest rated q.b. when they pick, which will likely be somewhere in the 10-15 range. Hebert will be gone, but they are way overdue to "hit" on a 1st round quarterback (Leftwich, Gabbert and Bortles). I'll leave the scouting to more knowledgeable people, but I do believe there will be 1 guy on the board who has a good chance to be a franchise quarterback. For the sake of our diehard fans, Caldwell or the new G.M.
better get it right.
- LBs are out there guessing.
- Bortles needs help to succeed. That's what a lot of guys need on other teams as well.
- If Malik doesn't restructure, he is most likely gone.
- I don't think Caldwell will be going anywhere for at least 2-3 more years. his recent drafts show that he has an eye. everyone is gonna miss sometimes.
(11-08-2018, 12:03 PM)Jay Carter 904 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2018, 10:59 AM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]...
There are certainly enough quality players returning next season for this team to make another run to go deep into the playoffs....
-
...
- Bortles needs help to succeed. That's what a lot of guys need on other teams as well.
- If Malik doesn't restructure, he is most likely gone.
...
The problem is Bortles needs too much help to succeed. Building around his inconsistency with enough talent to overcome his downturns in performance is not sustainable.
Good chance they'll try to restructure Jackson's deal - but that really doesn't mean he's gone if they don't. LOTS of ways to whittle away at the cap besides jettisoning your best 3 tech DT.
(11-08-2018, 12:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2018, 12:03 PM)Jay Carter 904 Wrote: [ -> ]-
...
- Bortles needs help to succeed. That's what a lot of guys need on other teams as well.
- If Malik doesn't restructure, he is most likely gone.
...
The problem is Bortles needs too much help to succeed. Building around his inconsistency with enough talent to overcome his downturns in performance is not sustainable.
Good chance they'll try to restructure Jackson's deal - but that really doesn't mean he's gone if they don't. LOTS of ways to whittle away at the cap besides jettisoning your best 3 tech DT.
With WRs who caught the ball last year, BB5 got us to the AFCC game.
That's why I wonder why we didn't obtain 1 of those WRS. (Thomas, Dez, Cooper, Tate)
He seriously needs help. Westbrook is seriously his only viable option.
(11-08-2018, 02:10 PM)Jay Carter 904 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2018, 12:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is Bortles needs too much help to succeed. Building around his inconsistency with enough talent to overcome his downturns in performance is not sustainable.
Good chance they'll try to restructure Jackson's deal - but that really doesn't mean he's gone if they don't. LOTS of ways to whittle away at the cap besides jettisoning your best 3 tech DT.
With WRs who caught the ball last year, BB5 got us to the AFCC game.
That's why I wonder why we didn't obtain 1 of those WRS. (Thomas, Dez, Cooper, Tate)
He seriously needs help. Westbrook is seriously his only viable option.
The Dez Bryant that no one wanted and we still have no clue how he's gonna play? His only chance is the fact he has Brees who is a top 5 QB of all time. Didn't Cooper lead the league in drops a year ago? Demaryius is absolutely nothing like he was before and Tate is a 30 year old slot receiver.
But even if those guys got open, you expect Blake to be able to hit them in stride? Blake doesn't anticipate his throws and half those guys you listed can't beat man coverage.
Couple of thoughts:
I had a feeling, that when Marquise Lee went down in preseason that we were going to have about a decade's worth of injuries occur over the next few months. I was right.
Also, I think this group has seen enough of #5. I shall remain pessimistic about finding our next guy right away though ... as we haven't had someone slinging the rock worth a damn since #8. I hope I'm wrong.
(11-08-2018, 02:10 PM)Jay Carter 904 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2018, 12:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is Bortles needs too much help to succeed. Building around his inconsistency with enough talent to overcome his downturns in performance is not sustainable.
Good chance they'll try to restructure Jackson's deal - but that really doesn't mean he's gone if they don't. LOTS of ways to whittle away at the cap besides jettisoning your best 3 tech DT.
With WRs who caught the ball last year, BB5 got us to the AFCC game.
That's why I wonder why we didn't obtain 1 of those WRS. (Thomas, Dez, Cooper, Tate)
He seriously needs help. Westbrook is seriously his only viable option.
If you think wide receiver is the primary issue with this offense, I can't really reason with you.
It's way down the list in my opinion - and QB is definitely a larger issue.
Is it possible to win with Blake? Obviously - yes - we've done it. But is it reasonable to require the #1 run game in the league and a top two or three defense to get him by? No - It's not the way to get it done. Not long term. It is not sustainable.
The QB has to be able to go win some games on his own at times. We've seen that what, maybe 3 times in 5 years? Not enough.
Now weigh that against the games that Blake gifted away on a silver platter with picks and do the math.
I think the QB needs a bit more help, sure. But I think we need a better QB even more that that.
(11-08-2018, 03:24 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2018, 02:10 PM)Jay Carter 904 Wrote: [ -> ]With WRs who caught the ball last year, BB5 got us to the AFCC game.
That's why I wonder why we didn't obtain 1 of those WRS. (Thomas, Dez, Cooper, Tate)
He seriously needs help. Westbrook is seriously his only viable option.
If you think wide receiver is the primary issue with this offense, I can't really reason with you.
It's way down the list in my opinion - and QB is definitely a larger issue.
Is it possible to win with Blake? Obviously - yes - we've done it. But is it reasonable to require the #1 run game in the league and a top two or three defense to get him by? No - It's not the way to get it done. Not long term. It is not sustainable.
The QB has to be able to go win some games on his own at times. We've seen that what, maybe 3 times in 5 years? Not enough.
Now weigh that against the games that Blake gifted away on a silver platter with picks and do the math.
I think the QB needs a bit more help, sure. But I think we need a better QB even more that that.
100% true.
Last seasons #1 rushing attack was very misleading and we can't expect the defense to score 7 TDs every season. The best way to have consistent success in this league is to have a great QB.