Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(10-23-2019, 10:38 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 10:31 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Minshew was also terrible in preseason

---

Shall we go down the list of all 5th round picks in the last say, 5 years, and see how many are still even rostered much less the stars you named?

Talk about narratives haha what a dolt.
Never ceases to amaze me how many of you fools come on here spewing your knowledge only to be proven to know little to nothing of the subject in which you speak on.

Haha, you think you proved something? What? You think I’m unaware of who’s been picked in that round of the draft? You are good at making baseless assumptions, I’ll give you that.

I'm sorry all I hear is rabble rabble I got nothing.

Thank you, next.

(10-23-2019, 10:22 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 09:59 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]So should we just ignore facts to fit your narrative?

The thing about the fifth rounder trades is that you have to get value. 

They needed a RB really badly when they got Hyde but they didn't use or keep him around enough to get value. 
That was a fail. 

With Dobbs - it was again driven by an immediate need due to injury   -  and if they still rate him highly at year's end and keep him into next season he could become a long term back-up/ developmental prospect.  Especially if they trade Foles ahead of the deadline in 2020 or prior to 2021.

He still has a chance to be worthy of the traded pick IMO. If he's jettisoned before next September, it's another fail.

See Kane, this is an example of looking at the disagreement from the other perspective that shows thought and depth. You should take some notes and not just spew nonsense. Good take NYC and valid point.

(10-23-2019, 10:41 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 10:22 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The thing about the fifth rounder trades is that you have to get value. 

They needed a RB really badly when they got Hyde but they didn't use or keep him around enough to get value. 
That was a fail. 

With Dobbs - it was again driven by an immediate need due to injury   -  and if they still rate him highly at year's end and keep him into next season he could become a long term back-up/ developmental prospect.  Especially if they trade Foles ahead of the deadline in 2020 or prior to 2021.

He still has a chance to be worthy of the traded pick IMO. If he's jettisoned before next September, it's another fail.

See Kane, this is an example of looking at the disagreement from the other perspective that shows thought and depth. You should take some notes and not just spew nonsense. Good take NYC and valid point.

I actually said something very similar earlier, but oooooootay buckwheat

(10-23-2019, 09:59 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 09:02 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]That's some mighty fine cherry picking of 5th round picks there.

So should we just ignore facts to fit your narrative?

5th round picks since Caldwell's arrival:
2013 - Denard Robinson (stuck for a few years, never really developed)
2014 - Telvin Smith (good pick)
2014 - Chris Smith (ok for a few years, traded to CIN for a 2018 seven)
2015 - Rashad Greene (stuck for a few years, never really developed)
2016 - None, pick traded to move up for Myles Jack
2017 - Blair Brown (meh special teamer, cut after two years)
2018 - None, traded for Carlos Hyde (waste)
2019 - Ryquell Armstead (TBD)

So of that list, no, there really weren't any busts. Robinson at least hung around for the duration of his rookie contract and showed some promise as a runner for a while there. Telvin was a great pick, regardless of his sorta-kinda retirement. Chris Smith didn't really do much, but in a further testament to Caldwell's abilities as a used-player salesman, he was able to return some value. Greene stuck around as a reserve, but he was still pretty bad throughout his tenure here. Brown, meh, nothing special and cut after a couple of years. The trade for Hyde was a total waste based upon the Jags' history of getting at least a couple of years out of their fives. Armstead has shown promise, and Dobbs is a TBD.

So yeah, what a bunch of us have been saying all along stands. If the Jags just dump Dobbs as soon as Foles is back, it's a wasted pick, but there are far worse uses of a pick than grabbing a QB who showed enough promise to be a fourth-round pick and possible heir apparent to Big Ben two years ago. If he works out or eventually returns another late pick in a trade, I'd consider that a good trade for solid insurance.

(10-23-2019, 10:52 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 09:59 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]So should we just ignore facts to fit your narrative?

5th round picks since Caldwell's arrival:
2013 - Denard Robinson (stuck for a few years, never really developed)
2014 - Telvin Smith (good pick)
2014 - Chris Smith (ok for a few years, traded to CIN for a 2018 seven)
2015 - Rashad Greene (stuck for a few years, never really developed)
2016 - None, pick traded to move up for Myles Jack
2017 - Blair Brown (meh special teamer, cut after two years)
2018 - None, traded for Carlos Hyde (waste)
2019 - Ryquell Armstead (TBD)

So of that list, no, there really weren't any busts. Robinson at least hung around for the duration of his rookie contract and showed some promise as a runner for a while there. Telvin was a great pick, regardless of his sorta-kinda retirement. Chris Smith didn't really do much, but in a further testament to Caldwell's abilities as a used-player salesman, he was able to return some value. Greene stuck around as a reserve, but he was still pretty bad throughout his tenure here. Brown, meh, nothing special and cut after a couple of years. The trade for Hyde was a total waste based upon the Jags' history of getting at least a couple of years out of their fives. Armstead has shown promise, and Dobbs is a TBD.

So yeah, what a bunch of us have been saying all along stands. If the Jags just dump Dobbs as soon as Foles is back, it's a wasted pick, but there are far worse uses of a pick than grabbing a QB who showed enough promise to be a fourth-round pick and possible heir apparent to Big Ben two years ago. If he works out or eventually returns another late pick in a trade, I'd consider that a good trade for solid insurance.

Oh you're just using OUR 5th rounders though.
League wide it is probably way worse. 
And he was picking superstars and starters from the 5th.

160 5th round picks every year, I'm willing to bet 80 don't make it more than 3 seasons.
and another 25-40 are just dudes, special teamers, practice squad guys.
and less than 10% go on to become Kittle, Hill, or Robert Mathis

(10-23-2019, 10:55 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 10:52 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]5th round picks since Caldwell's arrival:
2013 - Denard Robinson (stuck for a few years, never really developed)
2014 - Telvin Smith (good pick)
2014 - Chris Smith (ok for a few years, traded to CIN for a 2018 seven)
2015 - Rashad Greene (stuck for a few years, never really developed)
2016 - None, pick traded to move up for Myles Jack
2017 - Blair Brown (meh special teamer, cut after two years)
2018 - None, traded for Carlos Hyde (waste)
2019 - Ryquell Armstead (TBD)

So of that list, no, there really weren't any busts. Robinson at least hung around for the duration of his rookie contract and showed some promise as a runner for a while there. Telvin was a great pick, regardless of his sorta-kinda retirement. Chris Smith didn't really do much, but in a further testament to Caldwell's abilities as a used-player salesman, he was able to return some value. Greene stuck around as a reserve, but he was still pretty bad throughout his tenure here. Brown, meh, nothing special and cut after a couple of years. The trade for Hyde was a total waste based upon the Jags' history of getting at least a couple of years out of their fives. Armstead has shown promise, and Dobbs is a TBD.

So yeah, what a bunch of us have been saying all along stands. If the Jags just dump Dobbs as soon as Foles is back, it's a wasted pick, but there are far worse uses of a pick than grabbing a QB who showed enough promise to be a fourth-round pick and possible heir apparent to Big Ben two years ago. If he works out or eventually returns another late pick in a trade, I'd consider that a good trade for solid insurance.

Oh you're just using OUR 5th rounders though.
League wide it is probably way worse. 
And he was picking superstars and starters from the 5th.

160 5th round picks every year, I'm willing to bet 80 don't make it more than 3 seasons.
and another 25-40 are just dudes, special teamers, practice squad guys.
and less than 10% go on to become Kittle, Hill, or Robert Mathis

160 5th round picks each year, bwahahaha.

(10-23-2019, 10:55 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 10:52 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]5th round picks since Caldwell's arrival:
2013 - Denard Robinson (stuck for a few years, never really developed)
2014 - Telvin Smith (good pick)
2014 - Chris Smith (ok for a few years, traded to CIN for a 2018 seven)
2015 - Rashad Greene (stuck for a few years, never really developed)
2016 - None, pick traded to move up for Myles Jack
2017 - Blair Brown (meh special teamer, cut after two years)
2018 - None, traded for Carlos Hyde (waste)
2019 - Ryquell Armstead (TBD)

So of that list, no, there really weren't any busts. Robinson at least hung around for the duration of his rookie contract and showed some promise as a runner for a while there. Telvin was a great pick, regardless of his sorta-kinda retirement. Chris Smith didn't really do much, but in a further testament to Caldwell's abilities as a used-player salesman, he was able to return some value. Greene stuck around as a reserve, but he was still pretty bad throughout his tenure here. Brown, meh, nothing special and cut after a couple of years. The trade for Hyde was a total waste based upon the Jags' history of getting at least a couple of years out of their fives. Armstead has shown promise, and Dobbs is a TBD.

So yeah, what a bunch of us have been saying all along stands. If the Jags just dump Dobbs as soon as Foles is back, it's a wasted pick, but there are far worse uses of a pick than grabbing a QB who showed enough promise to be a fourth-round pick and possible heir apparent to Big Ben two years ago. If he works out or eventually returns another late pick in a trade, I'd consider that a good trade for solid insurance.

Oh you're just using OUR 5th rounders though.
League wide it is probably way worse. 
And he was picking superstars and starters from the 5th.

160 5th round picks every year, I'm willing to bet 80 don't make it more than 3 seasons.
and another 25-40 are just dudes, special teamers, practice squad guys.
and less than 10% go on to become Kittle, Hill, or Robert Mathis

I completely agree with your assessment of fifth-round picks as a whole. The Jags' picks are the relevant ones here, though. I know I've seen statements attributed to various personnel guys over the years that something like 10% of sixth-round picks will last more than a year in the NFL, and the numbers in general aren't much better for fifth-rounders.

I question where you're coming up with 160 fifth-rounders a year, though.

(10-23-2019, 11:14 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 10:55 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Oh you're just using OUR 5th rounders though.
League wide it is probably way worse. 
And he was picking superstars and starters from the 5th.

160 5th round picks every year, I'm willing to bet 80 don't make it more than 3 seasons.
and another 25-40 are just dudes, special teamers, practice squad guys.
and less than 10% go on to become Kittle, Hill, or Robert Mathis

I completely agree with your assessment of fifth-round picks as a whole. The Jags' picks are the relevant ones here, though. I know I've seen statements attributed to various personnel guys over the years that something like 10% of sixth-round picks will last more than a year in the NFL, and the numbers in general aren't much better for fifth-rounders.

I question where you're coming up with 160 fifth-rounders a year, though.

He’s better at name calling than facts.

(10-23-2019, 11:16 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 11:14 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]I completely agree with your assessment of fifth-round picks as a whole. The Jags' picks are the relevant ones here, though. I know I've seen statements attributed to various personnel guys over the years that something like 10% of sixth-round picks will last more than a year in the NFL, and the numbers in general aren't much better for fifth-rounders.

I question where you're coming up with 160 fifth-rounders a year, though.

He’s better at name calling than facts.

You're not exactly one to talk.

(10-23-2019, 11:02 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 10:55 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Oh you're just using OUR 5th rounders though.
League wide it is probably way worse. 
And he was picking superstars and starters from the 5th.

160 5th round picks every year, I'm willing to bet 80 don't make it more than 3 seasons.
and another 25-40 are just dudes, special teamers, practice squad guys.
and less than 10% go on to become Kittle, Hill, or Robert Mathis

160 5th round picks each year, bwahahaha.

The league experienced a massive expansion to 160 teams, from today's 32.  I plan to get Jags tickets next year to the Brunswick Beavers and Daytona Dynamos away games.

(10-23-2019, 09:02 AM)You Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-22-2019, 06:15 PM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ]Desmond King, George Kittle, DJ Reader, Tyreek Hill are just a few really, really good 5th round picks over the past couple years.

And hell, the Seahawks just traded a 5th for an actual solid player in Quandre Diggs. That's what winning franchise do with draft picks.

That's some mighty fine cherry picking of 5th round picks there.

Did you miss the part where I said it’s very likely that pick end sup being cut in a year or two? I’m very aware the success of late round picks. MY POINT, is that Dobbs has shown nothing to be worthy of anything, Pittsburgh was so impressed with him that they drafted a QB in the 3rd round a year after drafting him in the 4th.

Since the season was so young, if they traded that pick for a Keenum or Fitzpatrick type to stay afloat, I wouldn’t have a huge problem with it

(10-23-2019, 11:37 AM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 11:02 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]160 5th round picks each year, bwahahaha.

The league experienced a massive expansion to 160 teams, from today's 32.  I plan to get Jags tickets next year to the Brunswick Beavers and Daytona Dynamos away games.

Forgive my grave mistake there hahahahaha
160 5th round picks over the last 5 years

(10-23-2019, 11:37 AM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 09:02 AM)You Kane Wrote: [ -> ]That's some mighty fine cherry picking of 5th round picks there.

Did you miss the part where I said it’s very likely that pick end sup being cut in a year or two? I’m very aware the success of late round picks. MY POINT, is that Dobbs has shown nothing to be worthy of anything, Pittsburgh was so impressed with him that they drafted a QB in the 3rd round a year after drafting him in the 4th.

Since the season was so young, if they traded that pick for a Keenum or Fitzpatrick type to stay afloat, I wouldn’t have a huge problem with it

Mason Rudolph was drafted by Pittsburgh in the third round because the Steelers had a first-round grade on him, not because they thought Dobbs was a failure. I love how the people knocking Dobbs keep overlooking/ignoring that.

(10-22-2019, 09:04 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Keep him on the roster and make him an inactive on games day once Foles is back.

Did they get rid of the 46th player rule? I thought a few years ago they made it that you could have a 46th player active but they were 'third/emergency QB' type designation.

(10-23-2019, 10:22 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 09:59 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]So should we just ignore facts to fit your narrative?

The thing about the fifth rounder trades is that you have to get value. 

They needed a RB really badly when they got Hyde but they didn't use or keep him around enough to get value. 
That was a fail. 

With Dobbs - it was again driven by an immediate need due to injury   -  and if they still rate him highly at year's end and keep him into next season he could become a long term back-up/ developmental prospect.  Especially if they trade Foles ahead of the deadline in 2020 or prior to 2021.

He still has a chance to be worthy of the traded pick IMO. If he's jettisoned before next September, it's another fail.

I still want to say Hyde was more an anomaly than normalcy. He did not want to be here, that RB room was dysfunctional last year from coaches on down, and after the way things played out during the season, I don't think anyone was surprised as the complete housecleaning done.

For eveyone involved it was probably best just to reset and start anew.

(10-23-2019, 12:42 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-22-2019, 09:04 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Keep him on the roster and make him an inactive on games day once Foles is back.

Did they get rid of the 46th player rule? I thought a few years ago they made it that you could have a 46th player active but they were 'third/emergency QB' type designation.

They changed it a while back. It used to be that you could have a 46th active player as your emergency QB, but if he entered the game before the fourth quarter, your top two QBs couldn't return. Now, it's just a 46th active player with no restrictions.

(10-22-2019, 06:26 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-22-2019, 06:15 PM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ]Dobbs isn't anything special. Keep the pick and go sign someone off the street like Kessler. You're going to lose either way, I'd rather be losing with the 5th round pick than without it.

Yeah, odds are your 5th round pick is likely going to be cut in a season or two. But there is always the chnace you'll get lucky.

Desmond King, George Kittle, DJ Reader, Tyreek Hill are just a few really, really good 5th round picks over the past couple years.

And hell, the Seahawks just traded a 5th for an actual solid player in Quandre Diggs. That's what winning franchise do with draft picks.

(10-23-2019, 12:22 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 11:37 AM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ]Did you miss the part where I said it’s very likely that pick end sup being cut in a year or two? I’m very aware the success of late round picks. MY POINT, is that Dobbs has shown nothing to be worthy of anything, Pittsburgh was so impressed with him that they drafted a QB in the 3rd round a year after drafting him in the 4th.

Since the season was so young, if they traded that pick for a Keenum or Fitzpatrick type to stay afloat, I wouldn’t have a huge problem with it

Mason Rudolph was drafted by Pittsburgh in the third round because the Steelers had a first-round grade on him, not because they thought Dobbs was a failure. I love how the people knocking Dobbs keep overlooking/ignoring that.

So I guess they also had a first round grade on James Washington, who they took in the second?

I'd love to be wrong abou tDobbs and he actually be worth a roster spot down the line, but just seems like a waste of another asset for flawed reasoning.

(10-23-2019, 02:52 PM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2019, 12:22 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Mason Rudolph was drafted by Pittsburgh in the third round because the Steelers had a first-round grade on him, not because they thought Dobbs was a failure. I love how the people knocking Dobbs keep overlooking/ignoring that.

So I guess they also had a first round grade on James Washington, who they took in the second?

I'd love to be wrong abou tDobbs and he actually be worth a roster spot down the line, but just seems like a waste of another asset for flawed reasoning.

Or the Steelers were drafting based on need? Who knows what motivated the drafting of James Washington, and who knows if the Steelers had a higher grade on him? Teams pass on players with a higher grade in favor of players with a lower one all the time.