(01-08-2020, 05:51 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I think that The President handled the situation in the best way possible. The stock market surely seems to agree.
I agree.
The speech he gave today was exactly what needed to be said.
Iran needs to stop seeing itself as the defenders of the Shia everywhere and stop interfering in neighboring countries' politics. Stop sending guerrilla armies into neighboring countries. After they do that, they may find that they don't need nuclear weapons, or they may find that the world isn't as scared of them having those weapons. Basically what our President laid out.
(01-08-2020, 10:32 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2020, 05:51 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I think that The President handled the situation in the best way possible. The stock market surely seems to agree.
I agree.
The speech he gave today was exactly what needed to be said.
Iran needs to stop seeing itself as the defenders of the Shia everywhere and stop interfering in neighboring countries' politics. Stop sending guerrilla armies into neighboring countries. After they do that, they may find that they don't need nuclear weapons, or they may find that the world isn't as scared of them having those weapons. Basically what our President laid out.
Will America refrain from interference in sovereign nations too?
(01-08-2020, 10:43 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2020, 10:32 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I agree.
The speech he gave today was exactly what needed to be said.
Iran needs to stop seeing itself as the defenders of the Shia everywhere and stop interfering in neighboring countries' politics. Stop sending guerrilla armies into neighboring countries. After they do that, they may find that they don't need nuclear weapons, or they may find that the world isn't as scared of them having those weapons. Basically what our President laid out.
Will America refrain from interference in sovereign nations too?
Yes we do, but we were invited in Baghdad.
(01-08-2020, 10:32 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2020, 05:51 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I think that The President handled the situation in the best way possible. The stock market surely seems to agree.
I agree.
The speech he gave today was exactly what needed to be said.
Iran needs to stop seeing itself as the defenders of the Shia everywhere and stop interfering in neighboring countries' politics. Stop sending guerrilla armies into neighboring countries. After they do that, they may find that they don't need nuclear weapons, or they may find that the world isn't as scared of them having those weapons. Basically what our President laid out.
Like they give a rats [BLEEP].
^^ Just more brain washed white nationalists in support of Derr Leader.
(01-09-2020, 11:27 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Thread title is comical.
I was going to say the same thing lol.
(01-08-2020, 03:51 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2020, 11:50 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]What Iran just did was the equivalent of a guy punching you in your face in front of your girlfriend, and when said guy turns around and walks away, you make a "flexing" motion to said guys back to show your girlfriend how tough you are.
P.S. Did Mikesze really present his "bunker priority" theory as fact? Good God man, the effects of TDS may be worse than we originally thought.
I think you are confused. I think you mean Obama loved giving terrorist nations billions of dollars to build their bombs. Including the ones you saw tonight.
Considering Trump referenced it yet again this morning and it's been a constant talking point of the right since he came into office, I'd like to point out two inaccuracies:
- No $150b payout ever occurred. Iran's previously frozen assets were released as part of the multinational agreement signed in 2015 as a result of Iran committing to restrain their nuclear development program. It was theirs to begin with.
- $400m was transferred from the US Treasury (with the understanding that another $1.4b in interest would be paid later) as an IOU from the 1970s - one where we never made good on paying for military equipment because of Iran's instability at the time.
Regardless, I have no doubt they're now using those funds to develop weapons.
Not surprised this was ignored by our resident Trumpettes. Trump cannot make a speech without lying, and it often has something to do with Obama.
If the Left has TDS, Trump certainly has ODS.
(01-09-2020, 04:13 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2020, 03:51 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ]Considering Trump referenced it yet again this morning and it's been a constant talking point of the right since he came into office, I'd like to point out two inaccuracies:
- No $150b payout ever occurred. Iran's previously frozen assets were released as part of the multinational agreement signed in 2015 as a result of Iran committing to restrain their nuclear development program. It was theirs to begin with.
- $400m was transferred from the US Treasury (with the understanding that another $1.4b in interest would be paid later) as an IOU from the 1970s - one where we never made good on paying for military equipment because of Iran's instability at the time.
Regardless, I have no doubt they're now using those funds to develop weapons.
Not surprised this was ignored by our resident Trumpettes. Trump cannot make a speech without lying, and it often has something to do with Obama.
If the Left has TDS, Trump certainly has ODS.
The source of the money is not the issue. The problems lies in the fact an agreement was made to relinquish $150B dollars to the PREMIER sponsor of worldwide terror. You and Gabe know, as well as everyone else, that Americans were killed and maimed using cash from that very pallet. What's worse, Obama and every nation which agreed to that idiotic deal were well aware that would happen.
But as long as you can fit the pejorative "Trumpettes" into a disparaging sentence, then it was all worth it, right?
(01-09-2020, 04:13 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2020, 03:51 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ]Considering Trump referenced it yet again this morning and it's been a constant talking point of the right since he came into office, I'd like to point out two inaccuracies:
- No $150b payout ever occurred. Iran's previously frozen assets were released as part of the multinational agreement signed in 2015 as a result of Iran committing to restrain their nuclear development program. It was theirs to begin with.
- $400m was transferred from the US Treasury (with the understanding that another $1.4b in interest would be paid later) as an IOU from the 1970s - one where we never made good on paying for military equipment because of Iran's instability at the time.
Regardless, I have no doubt they're now using those funds to develop weapons.
Not surprised this was ignored by our resident Trumpettes. Trump cannot make a speech without lying, and it often has something to do with Obama.
If the Left has TDS, Trump certainly has ODS.
The first point is valid because that was part of the negotiations for the nuclear deal.
The second point is a different story because it wasn't part of the nuclear deal.
Transferring cash from the US to Iran, no matter if it's an Iranian's cash, is illegal under the sanctions imposed in 1979. It's funny that over the 25+ years since the sanctions took effect, no president has thought it wise to violate those sanctions and transfer the $400 m back to Iran until Obama.
It's also funny that the transfer wasn't done in the most widely accepted and easiest currency for us to obtain, the US dollar, but broken up into several foreign currencies making the source harder to trace. Basically a money laundering technique.
What's even more funny is that this transfer was done secretly and wasn't known to the public until 8 months later when The Wall Street Journal broke the story.
Even though the US has a strict policy to not negotiate ransoms, 5 US hostages in Iran were freed the very same day the transfer happened. Coincidence?
I think there are plenty of valid reasons to criticize the transfer of the $400 mil to Iran.
May 2019 - Iran attacks oil tankers in the Gulf
June 2019 - Iran shoots down US drone
July 2019 - Iran seizes British oil tanker
September 2019 - Iran attacks Saudi state run oil co.
December 2019 - Iran attacks US military bases in Iraq
December 2019 - Iran storms the US embassy in Baghdad
January 2020 - US strikes Baghdad, killing an Iran commander
January 2020 - People and the news media says Trump started this war
(01-09-2020, 05:09 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2020, 04:13 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Not surprised this was ignored by our resident Trumpettes. Trump cannot make a speech without lying, and it often has something to do with Obama.
If the Left has TDS, Trump certainly has ODS.
The source of the money is not the issue. The problems lies in the fact an agreement was made to relinquish $150B dollars to the PREMIER sponsor of worldwide terror. You and Gabe know, as well as everyone else, that Americans were killed and maimed using cash from that very pallet. What's worse, Obama and every nation which agreed to that idiotic deal were well aware that would happen.
But as long as you can fit the pejorative "Trumpettes" into a disparaging sentence, then it was all worth it, right?
Ugh, you just don’t get it. Trump is bad. It doesn’t matter what he does. He’s BAD! He can single handedly save a litter of puppies from being strayed from its mommy and almost eaten by alligators. Trump just [BLEEP] with the ecosystem. He can piss on a house fire and put out the house fire of a low income family’s house that works multiple jobs to pay for what little they have.. but guess what, had the fire just engulfed the whole house they would’ve gotten 185k and a rebuilt house and 2 of members of the family only survived. Who cares that all survived? Trump just [BLEEP] their opportunity for a new place. Trump walks into a store that can barely keep the lights on and buys everything in the store. He’s rich, entitled [BLEEP] trying to buy a vote. You cant win.
(01-09-2020, 04:13 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2020, 03:51 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ]Considering Trump referenced it yet again this morning and it's been a constant talking point of the right since he came into office, I'd like to point out two inaccuracies:
- No $150b payout ever occurred. Iran's previously frozen assets were released as part of the multinational agreement signed in 2015 as a result of Iran committing to restrain their nuclear development program. It was theirs to begin with.
- $400m was transferred from the US Treasury (with the understanding that another $1.4b in interest would be paid later) as an IOU from the 1970s - one where we never made good on paying for military equipment because of Iran's instability at the time.
Regardless, I have no doubt they're now using those funds to develop weapons.
Not surprised this was ignored by our resident Trumpettes. Trump cannot make a speech without lying, and it often has something to do with Obama.
If the Left has TDS, Trump certainly has ODS.
There is a big difference and a problem between "releasing frozen assets" and delivering pallets of cash in foreign currency in secret. Iran may have "committed to restrain from nuclear development" according to their words at the time, but their actions indicate otherwise.
I kind of anticipate another "Stuxnet" kind of thing happening real soon.
(01-09-2020, 07:47 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2020, 04:13 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Not surprised this was ignored by our resident Trumpettes. Trump cannot make a speech without lying, and it often has something to do with Obama.
If the Left has TDS, Trump certainly has ODS.
There is a big difference and a problem between "releasing frozen assets" and delivering pallets of cash in foreign currency in secret. Iran may have "committed to restrain from nuclear development" according to their words at the time, but their actions indicate otherwise.
I kind of anticipate another "Stuxnet" kind of thing happening real soon.
I tend to think that Iran was abiding by the terms of the deal.
The deal did release a lot of frozen assets to them.
The hope was that they would use these things to improve their economy and buy lots of stuff for lots of other people just to improve daily life.
Obviously they ended up investing way too much of it and nefarious, below a board activities in Gaza, in Lebanon, in Syria, in Yemen, etc.
The approach, from the beginning, should have been that they need to stop both the nuclear development and the proxy wars.
But they did stop the nuclear development.
(01-09-2020, 08:16 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2020, 07:47 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]There is a big difference and a problem between "releasing frozen assets" and delivering pallets of cash in foreign currency in secret. Iran may have "committed to restrain from nuclear development" according to their words at the time, but their actions indicate otherwise.
I kind of anticipate another "Stuxnet" kind of thing happening real soon.
I tend to think that Iran was abiding by the terms of the deal.
The deal did release a lot of frozen assets to them.
The hope was that they would use these things to improve their economy and buy lots of stuff for lots of other people just to improve daily life.
Obviously they ended up investing way too much of it and nefarious, below a board activities in Gaza, in Lebanon, in Syria, in Yemen, etc.
The approach, from the beginning, should have been that they need to stop both the nuclear development and the proxy wars.
But they did stop the nuclear development.
That's one of the reasons why Trump hated the deal so much and pulled us out of it.
He want's to renegotiate a new deal that will halt all of Iran's nefarious actions.
If they are willing to play nice, all the sanctions go away or are significantly reduced.
If they want to keep supporting radical militant groups, they know they will risk serious consequences.
Meanwhile, we will just keep cranking up the sanctions. Eventually they will be so broke that they can no longer afford a nuclear program.
(01-09-2020, 05:09 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2020, 04:13 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Not surprised this was ignored by our resident Trumpettes. Trump cannot make a speech without lying, and it often has something to do with Obama.
If the Left has TDS, Trump certainly has ODS.
The source of the money is not the issue. The problems lies in the fact an agreement was made to relinquish $150B dollars to the PREMIER sponsor of worldwide terror. You and Gabe know, as well as everyone else, that Americans were killed and maimed using cash from that very pallet. What's worse, Obama and every nation which agreed to that idiotic deal were well aware that would happen.
But as long as you can fit the pejorative "Trumpettes" into a disparaging sentence, then it was all worth it, right?
When did someone overtake Saudi Arabia and America as the PREMIER sponsor of world wide terror? Surprising to see Iran fight so hard against ISIS........where did they stem from again?
(01-10-2020, 02:06 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2020, 05:09 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]The source of the money is not the issue. The problems lies in the fact an agreement was made to relinquish $150B dollars to the PREMIER sponsor of worldwide terror. You and Gabe know, as well as everyone else, that Americans were killed and maimed using cash from that very pallet. What's worse, Obama and every nation which agreed to that idiotic deal were well aware that would happen.
But as long as you can fit the pejorative "Trumpettes" into a disparaging sentence, then it was all worth it, right?
When did someone overtake Saudi Arabia and America as the PREMIER sponsor of world wide terror? Surprising to see Iran fight so hard against ISIS........where did they stem from again?
Oh, yeah. I forgot about that.
(01-10-2020, 02:06 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2020, 05:09 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]The source of the money is not the issue. The problems lies in the fact an agreement was made to relinquish $150B dollars to the PREMIER sponsor of worldwide terror. You and Gabe know, as well as everyone else, that Americans were killed and maimed using cash from that very pallet. What's worse, Obama and every nation which agreed to that idiotic deal were well aware that would happen.
But as long as you can fit the pejorative "Trumpettes" into a disparaging sentence, then it was all worth it, right?
When did someone overtake Saudi Arabia and America as the PREMIER sponsor of world wide terror? Surprising to see Iran fight so hard against ISIS........where did they stem from again?
Really?
I don't think the Irish have the right to call anyone out on terrorism.
The ends always justify the means. Right?
You throw a lot of rocks from your glass house.
Europeans and their hypocrisy.
(01-09-2020, 07:47 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2020, 04:13 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Not surprised this was ignored by our resident Trumpettes. Trump cannot make a speech without lying, and it often has something to do with Obama.
If the Left has TDS, Trump certainly has ODS.
There is a big difference and a problem between "releasing frozen assets" and delivering pallets of cash in foreign currency in secret. Iran may have "committed to restrain from nuclear development" according to their words at the time, but their actions indicate otherwise.
I kind of anticipate another "Stuxnet" kind of thing happening real soon.
Perhaps it's part of the libertarian leanings I have, but I'm a proponent of paying one's debts. If Iran was "walking the talk" (at the time), then I'm all for agreements that are progessive toward peace. Personally, I would have substantially benchmarked such an agreement - We'll release X% every 6 months with P5+1 oversight and acceptable reporting/findings.
Nonetheless, they've halted any restraints to their nuclear program as of this week. Logically, this is due to Soleimani's assassination - the one where Pompeo chuckilishly can't/won't provide evidence for what imminent threat/attack Soleimani posed.
(01-10-2020, 07:08 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2020, 02:06 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]When did someone overtake Saudi Arabia and America as the PREMIER sponsor of world wide terror? Surprising to see Iran fight so hard against ISIS........where did they stem from again?
Oh, yeah. I forgot about that.
There's a blurry line in saying that the $400m that we previously owed Iran was used specifically to maim and kill US military members. Serious question to consider: Would they have done what they did without the $400m IOU plus 45 years' interest?
(01-10-2020, 09:05 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2020, 02:06 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]When did someone overtake Saudi Arabia and America as the PREMIER sponsor of world wide terror? Surprising to see Iran fight so hard against ISIS........where did they stem from again?
Really?
I don't think the Irish have the right to call anyone out on terrorism.
The ends always justify the means. Right?
You throw a lot of rocks from your glass house.
Europeans and their hypocrisy.
Glass house question: what countries off the top of anyone's heads have any right to call anyone out on (domestic or international) terrorism?