(09-27-2020, 09:13 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 09:08 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]I remember Jalen throwing Gus under the bus after he left talking about the defensive scheme, but I didn't hear anyone complaining in '17 and '18 when they were rolling with it. I don't recall anyone else saying it other that immature kid. I am fine with switching it up and moving on from Wash, but its not the reason why we are bad right now. Its because we have do not have enough talent. (i.e. Caldwell)
So it wasn't because of the talent on Defense that made it good those seasons, but now all of a sudden the Defense isn't good because of the talent?.... The [BLEEP] are you talking about
What? I have no idea what you're ranting about now. I just agreed with you and said we WERE talented those seasons. Take a breath and read it again. lol
(09-27-2020, 09:16 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 09:13 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]So it wasn't because of the talent on Defense that made it good those seasons, but now all of a sudden the Defense isn't good because of the talent?.... The [BLEEP] are you talking about
What? I have no idea what you're ranting about now. I just agreed with you and say we WERE talented those seasons. Take a breath and read it again. lol
The scheme was masked because of the talent on Defense that year, like I said. It had the same exact issues those seasons that it still has. Can't cover TEs. Can't stop screens. Can't stop a QB running etc etc. Nothing has changed about the scheme except for the insane amount of talent it had, which masked the issues in those seasons. That is the facts of the matter.
(09-27-2020, 09:22 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 09:16 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]What? I have no idea what you're ranting about now. I just agreed with you and say we WERE talented those seasons. Take a breath and read it again. lol
The scheme was masked because of the talent on Defense that year, like I said. It had the same exact issues those seasons that it still has. Can't cover TEs. Can't stop screens. Can't stop a QB running etc etc. Nothing has changed about the scheme except for the insane amount of talent it had, which masked the issues in those seasons. That is the facts of the matter.
Clearly you confuse facts with opinions. Obviously, if you are the #2 defense in the League, you are not dealing with the same amount or degrees of issues. It was a very talented defense, but you're acting like it had the same talent as the '85 Bears. It wasn't. And how exactly are you related to Caldwell? lol
My point is talent influences outcomes more than scheme. I think 2017 and 2018 are perfect examples compared to the disaster of the roster we have right now. Same scheme, different talent, different outcomes. THAT is the fact of the matter.
(09-27-2020, 09:26 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 09:22 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]The scheme was masked because of the talent on Defense that year, like I said. It had the same exact issues those seasons that it still has. Can't cover TEs. Can't stop screens. Can't stop a QB running etc etc. Nothing has changed about the scheme except for the insane amount of talent it had, which masked the issues in those seasons. That is the facts of the matter.
Clearly you confuse facts with opinions. Obviously, if you are the #2 defense in the League, you are not dealing with the same amount or degrees of issues. It was a very talented defense, but you're acting like it had the same talent as the '85 Bears. It wasn't. And how exactly are you related to Caldwell? lol
My point is talent influences outcomes more than scheme. I think 2017 and 2018 are perfect examples compared to the disaster of the roster we have right now.
Because the amount of talent masked the issues and made them not as glaring... This isn't hard to understand..
(09-27-2020, 09:30 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 09:26 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]Clearly you confuse facts with opinions. Obviously, if you are the #2 defense in the League, you are not dealing with the same amount or degrees of issues. It was a very talented defense, but you're acting like it had the same talent as the '85 Bears. It wasn't. And how exactly are you related to Caldwell? lol
My point is talent influences outcomes more than scheme. I think 2017 and 2018 are perfect examples compared to the disaster of the roster we have right now.
Because the amount of talent masked the issues and made them not as glaring... This isn't hard to understand..
I've got news for you... any scheme is going to have issues without talent. This isn't hard to understand.
(09-27-2020, 09:31 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 09:30 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Because the amount of talent masked the issues and made them not as glaring... This isn't hard to understand..
I've got news for you... any scheme is going to have issues without talent. This isn't hard to understand.
And I've got news for you... This scheme takes a crazy amount of talent to be good. Which is entirely the point. That isn't hard to understand.
(09-27-2020, 09:34 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 09:31 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]I've got news for you... any scheme is going to have issues without talent. This isn't hard to understand.
And I've got news for you... This scheme takes a crazy amount of talent to be good. Which is entirely the point. That isn't hard to understand.
OK. Let's say you're right. Who obviously believes in that scheme and is responsible for keeping in place here for the last 8 YEARS????
Gene Smith? No.
Gus? No.
Morrone? No.
Wash? No... not even him.
The person who obviously believes in this scheme and who has kept it here for 8 YEARS is:
D _
V _
C _
L D W _
L L (would you like to buy a vowel?)
Interesting discussion..one person doesn't like Caldwell and the other Walsh. Both bending arguments to prop up their positions. As the least qualified to have a deep insight into football inter-workings it seems to me:
1. Before Caldwell players leaving the Jags went home. Since Caldwell most find homes on other teams and sometimes we can actually trade them.
2 The 2017 defense that was so good was anchored by players from other teams that had already been developed by others. AKA Malik Jackson, Barry Church, A.J. Bouye, Tashaun Gibson, Paul Posluszy, Calais Cambell.
3 On the other hand I do remember being extremely disappointed we chose Lernard Fornette as a running back. This was due to how he played and behaved at LSU. I felt their were many better options that year.
4. I spent my career turning around failed operations. A good 95% of the time their were a few bad employees, but the reason for the failure was supervision and management not the employees.
(09-27-2020, 09:45 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting discussion..one person doesn't like Caldwell and the other Walsh. Both bending arguments to prop up their positions. As the least qualified to have a deep insight into football inter-workings it seems to me:
1. Before Caldwell players leaving the Jags went home. Since Caldwell most find homes on other teams and sometimes we can actually trade them.
2 The 2017 defense that was so good was anchored by players from other teams that had already been developed by others. AKA Malik Jackson, Barry Church, A.J. Bouye, Tashaun Gibson, Paul Posluszy, Calais Cambell.
3 On the other hand I do remember being extremely disappointed we chose Lernard Fornette as a running back. This was due to how he played and behaved at LSU. I felt their were many better options that year.
4. I spent my career turning around failed operations. A good 95% of the time their were a few bad employees, but the reason for the failure was supervision and management not the employees.
I don't like either Caldwell or Wash... I just know one is hurting us more than the other. But I like your points... good post.
(09-27-2020, 09:44 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 09:34 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]And I've got news for you... This scheme takes a crazy amount of talent to be good. Which is entirely the point. That isn't hard to understand.
OK. Let's say you're right. Who obviously believes in that scheme and is responsible for keeping in place here for the last 8 YEARS????
Gene Smith? No.
Gus? No.
Morrone? No.
Wash? No... not even him.
The person who obviously believes in this scheme and who has kept it here for 8 YEARS is:
D _ V _ C _ L D W _ L L (would you like to buy a vowel?)
I already said multiple times there should of been a full clean of house this past off season. You're way too stuck on your blind hate for Dave.
But typically it's up to the HC to decide who his Coordinators are... Being such the football expert you claim yourself to be, you'd think you'd know that.
(09-27-2020, 09:52 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 09:44 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]OK. Let's say you're right. Who obviously believes in that scheme and is responsible for keeping in place here for the last 8 YEARS????
Gene Smith? No.
Gus? No.
Morrone? No.
Wash? No... not even him.
The person who obviously believes in this scheme and who has kept it here for 8 YEARS is:
D _ V _ C _ L D W _ L L (would you like to buy a vowel?)
I already said multiple times there should of been a full clean of house this past off season. You're way too stuck on your blind hate for Dave.
But typically it's up to the HC to decide who his Coordinators are... Being such the football expert you claim yourself to be, you'd think you'd know that.
What I do know is that the GM has a significant say on the football coaching staff in general, including not only the head coach, but also his coordinators and assistants. When you go over to Uncle Dave's for dinner this week, you can ask him about that. And its not blind hatred... its just facts. See the signature for more info.
Y'all remember when we all thought Dave and Doug were about to get canned and Khan came out and said the two of them sold him on this grand "plan" and they'd get a chance to execute it?
Well, it's pretty clear now that the plan was to get rid of every single last malcontent and Coughlin miscue, and it actually has done a world of good for the offense and a fair amount of good for the defense. This team does look like it has a real bought in chemistry now.
They just forgot one thing.
Todd Wash's scheme can't work without a disproportionate amount of talent spread throughout and a front four that gets home without help.
We don't have the DE rotation the scheme needs, the interior push required to help those ends, that necessary CB that takes away half the field, or a free safety that would even be sniffed on the waiver wire - much less one worthy of the scheme's requirement.
(09-27-2020, 09:56 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 09:52 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]I already said multiple times there should of been a full clean of house this past off season. You're way too stuck on your blind hate for Dave.
But typically it's up to the HC to decide who his Coordinators are... Being such the football expert you claim yourself to be, you'd think you'd know that.
What I do know is that the GM has a significant say on the football coaching staff in general, including not only the head coach, but also his coordinators and assistants. When you go over to Uncle Dave's for dinner this week, you can ask him about that. And its not blind hatred... its just facts. See the signature for more info.
Most GMs leave the coordinator and assistant coach hires almost 100% up to the HC.
This is very common and Dave and Doug have been transparent about it.
I'm sure Dave likes Wash more than most fans do or he'd have intervened, and I hope he urges Marrone to make a change, but this is very commonly a delegated decision unless intervention is required.
(09-27-2020, 09:56 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 09:52 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]I already said multiple times there should of been a full clean of house this past off season. You're way too stuck on your blind hate for Dave.
But typically it's up to the HC to decide who his Coordinators are... Being such the football expert you claim yourself to be, you'd think you'd know that.
What I do know is that the GM has a significant say on the football coaching staff in general, including not only the head coach, but also his coordinators and assistants. When you go over to Uncle Dave's for dinner this week, you can ask him about that. And its not blind hatred... its just facts. See the signature for more info.
Yea because having somebody in the front office who goes out of his way to over step his Coaches worked really well in the past huh? It's almost like we just seen what happened, when that happens... weird.
The word you're looking for is opinion, not facts.
(09-27-2020, 10:16 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 09:56 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]What I do know is that the GM has a significant say on the football coaching staff in general, including not only the head coach, but also his coordinators and assistants. When you go over to Uncle Dave's for dinner this week, you can ask him about that. And its not blind hatred... its just facts. See the signature for more info.
Yea because having somebody in the front office who goes out of his way to over step his Coaches worked really well in the past huh? It's almost like we just seen what happened, when that happens... weird.
The word you're looking for is opinion, not facts.
It is my opinion that Caldwell endorses Wash and his defense, but it is logically based on the fact that it is the only defense Caldwell has worked with while he has been here. If he didn't like the scheme, I am sure he would have told Khan it needed to be changed when he hired Morrone. Unlike your opinions, mine are supported by logical premises. For facts, please see my signature.
(09-27-2020, 10:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Y'all remember when we all thought Dave and Doug were about to get canned and Khan came out and said the two of them sold him on this grand "plan" and they'd get a chance to execute it?
Well, it's pretty clear now that the plan was to get rid of every single last malcontent and Coughlin miscue, and it actually has done a world of good for the offense and a fair amount of good for the defense. This team does look like it has a real bought in chemistry now.
They just forgot one thing.
Todd Wash's scheme can't work without a disproportionate amount of talent spread throughout and a front four that gets home without help.
We don't have the DE rotation the scheme needs, the interior push required to help those ends, that necessary CB that takes away half the field, or a free safety that would even be sniffed on the waiver wire - much less one worthy of the scheme's requirement.
OK. Please describe the defensive scheme that works for the current talent level of this team.
There is too much hatred in this thread.
Just enjoy the ride and wait for Khan to announce that DC and DM are back again next year.
(09-27-2020, 10:26 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 10:16 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Yea because having somebody in the front office who goes out of his way to over step his Coaches worked really well in the past huh? It's almost like we just seen what happened, when that happens... weird.
The word you're looking for is opinion, not facts.
It is my opinion that Caldwell endorses Wash and his defense, but it is logically based on the fact that it is the only defense Caldwell has worked with while he has been here. If he didn't like the scheme, I am sure he would have told Khan it needed to be changed when Morrone was hired. Unlike your opinions, mine are supported by logical premises.
(09-27-2020, 10:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Y'all remember when we all thought Dave and Doug were about to get canned and Khan came out and said the two of them sold him on this grand "plan" and they'd get a chance to execute it?
Well, it's pretty clear now that the plan was to get rid of every single last malcontent and Coughlin miscue, and it actually has done a world of good for the offense and a fair amount of good for the defense. This team does look like it has a real bought in chemistry now.
They just forgot one thing.
Todd Wash's scheme can't work without a disproportionate amount of talent spread throughout and a front four that gets home without help.
We don't have the DE rotation the scheme needs, the interior push required to help those ends, that necessary CB that takes away half the field, or a free safety that would even be sniffed on the waiver wire - much less one worthy of the scheme's requirement.
OK. Please describe the defensive scheme that works for the current talent level of this team.
LOL... whatever helps you sleep at night dude.
(09-27-2020, 10:29 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]There is too much hatred in this thread.
Just enjoy the ride and wait for Khan to announce that DC and DM are back again next year.
LOL... No hatred brother. Just a fun, vigorous debate with some fellow fanatics.
(09-27-2020, 10:36 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2020, 10:29 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]There is too much hatred in this thread.
Just enjoy the ride and wait for Khan to announce that DC and DM are back again next year.
LOL... No hatred brother. Just a fun, vigorous debate with some fellow fanatics.
Yea there's no hate, just some banter with fellow fans.
May agree on some things, may disagree on some things. No matter the stance, I think we can all agree that we're all just tired of watching this [BLEEP] show year after year. Which has been going on for the better part of the last 20 years. Regardless of who was running the show or not.
While this defense is certainly devoid of overwhelming talent in every layer of the defense, its completely asinine for the defensive playcalls to remain stale and downright ludicrous when we know rushing the passer is a clear issue.
What very good coaches know, and execute, is being adaptable and formulating a gameplan around the talent (or lack thereof) currently on the roster.
What GREAT coaches know, and execute, is adjusting the gameplan/playcalling mid-game to hopefully tip the balance back in their favor. What most of us on this board have been yearning for is for Wash to move away from his bend-but-don't-break defense when we are getting carved because the opposing QB has an eternity to diagnose the play and move the ball forward.
Dial up the blitz at times, show blitz but bail, stay in a deep shell, etc etc. Change it up. But we know he is incapable of such.