(09-21-2020, 04:30 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2020, 12:28 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Ok sure. Fournette was Coughlin's pick, just like Minshew, Chark and Allen. Also Coughlin signed Calais, Bouye and Church. In other words 2017 was thanks to Coughlin. Also Caldwell doesn't have a winning season yet.
Caldwell has a winning season, 2017. If Coughlin gets credit, then so does Caldwell. Some picks bare clear trademarks of either or, but many can't be differentiated and were joint decisions. Caldwell has made his fair share of blunders with and without Coughlin.
However, when it came to reports of player dissatisfaction, trade demands, and the NFLPA letter debacle, that was traced back to Coughlin. It's no coincidence he was fired but not Caldwell once that letter came out.
I think someone, aka you, is a bit salty his gramps TC got fired. It is after all his second time being sent packing after poor decisions costing this franchise.
Besides, you're always spewing negativity on this board when it comes to you being a supposed "fan", so maybe if another team hires him you can jump ship and go root for him there.
(09-21-2020, 12:31 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]#1. You are speculating about the Fournette pick. The truth is neither you, nor I, nor anyone else on this board who doesn't work in the Jags front office would know that with certainty.
#2. I agree that Coughlin's methods were out of date and he needed to go. But he was also around and received credit for the only decent season we have had here since JDR's 2007 squad.
#3. Explain to me if you are a GM with ANY professional sports team for 8 seasons and your franchise has posted the WORST cumulative record in the League during that time how you still have a job. Please.
What part of:
"Yes, despite my signature, I still doubt him. One playoff season in 8 years would send any other GM packing, even the Browns."
And
"Caldwell may be soon gone too, should 2020 be a losing record."
did you not comprehend? I am not fighting for Caldwell to stay. I am numb about it. If he has a bad record this year, regardless of Minshew's performance being good, he should be gone.
The part I did not comprehend is how you assume Fournette was Coughlin's pick. That is pure speculation and a defense for Caldwell when neither you, nor I, have any real idea. Unlike you, I am not numb about it, and I believe Caldwell is THE problem. Other than that, we're on the same page.
(09-21-2020, 04:30 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2020, 12:28 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Ok sure. Fournette was Coughlin's pick, just like Minshew, Chark and Allen. Also Coughlin signed Calais, Bouye and Church. In other words 2017 was thanks to Coughlin. Also Caldwell doesn't have a winning season yet.
Caldwell has a winning season, 2017. If Coughlin gets credit, then so does Caldwell. Some picks bare clear trademarks of either or, but many can't be differentiated and were joint decisions. Caldwell has made his fair share of blunders with and without Coughlin.
However, when it came to reports of player dissatisfaction, trade demands, and the NFLPA letter debacle, that was traced back to Coughlin. It's no coincidence he was fired but not Caldwell once that letter came out.
I think someone, aka you, is a bit salty his gramps TC got fired. It is after all his second time being sent packing after poor decisions costing this franchise.
Besides, you're always spewing negativity on this board when it comes to you being a supposed "fan", so maybe if another team hires him you can jump ship and go root for him there.
Boooohoooo cry me a river.
So I was supposed to be positive all these years with Gene and Caldwell/Bradley just because? lol
Negativity? I guess for someone like you being realistic = negativity
So what you are really saying is:
Good picks were thanks to Caldwell
Bad picks/decisions thanks to Coughlin
Hilarious xD
TC had to go, it was clear for everyone, that doesn't mean Caldwell should have stayed.
BTW, Coughlin left and Yawn still didn't wanna be here.
Coughlin is gone, yet Harrison was glad to leave.
So which is it? they share blame/praise for every move (including Fournette) or what?
I ain't leaving but if my posts make you cry so much maybe you should put me on ignore.
(09-21-2020, 04:48 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2020, 04:30 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Caldwell has a winning season, 2017. If Coughlin gets credit, then so does Caldwell. Some picks bare clear trademarks of either or, but many can't be differentiated and were joint decisions. Caldwell has made his fair share of blunders with and without Coughlin.
However, when it came to reports of player dissatisfaction, trade demands, and the NFLPA letter debacle, that was traced back to Coughlin. It's no coincidence he was fired but not Caldwell once that letter came out.
I think someone, aka you, is a bit salty his gramps TC got fired. It is after all his second time being sent packing after poor decisions costing this franchise.
Besides, you're always spewing negativity on this board when it comes to you being a supposed "fan", so maybe if another team hires him you can jump ship and go root for him there.
What part of:
"Yes, despite my signature, I still doubt him. One playoff season in 8 years would send any other GM packing, even the Browns."
And
"Caldwell may be soon gone too, should 2020 be a losing record."
did you not comprehend? I am not fighting for Caldwell to stay. I am numb about it. If he has a bad record this year, regardless of Minshew's performance being good, he should be gone.
The part I did not comprehend is how you assume Fournette was Coughlin's pick. That is pure speculation and a defense for Caldwell when neither you, nor I, have any real idea. Unlike you, I am not numb about it, and I believe Caldwell is THE problem. Other than that, we're on the same page.
Circumstantial evidence to me points to Fournette as Coughlin influenced. your mileage may vary of course.
While I agree when you look at the entirety of caldwell’s record, there is no way you can claim he is a top GM, let’s not discount the possibility he may have learned a lot over the last 8 years. How many of you would say you were as good at your job day one as you were 5-10 years in?
(09-21-2020, 05:00 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2020, 04:30 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Caldwell has a winning season, 2017. If Coughlin gets credit, then so does Caldwell. Some picks bare clear trademarks of either or, but many can't be differentiated and were joint decisions. Caldwell has made his fair share of blunders with and without Coughlin.
However, when it came to reports of player dissatisfaction, trade demands, and the NFLPA letter debacle, that was traced back to Coughlin. It's no coincidence he was fired but not Caldwell once that letter came out.
I think someone, aka you, is a bit salty his gramps TC got fired. It is after all his second time being sent packing after poor decisions costing this franchise.
Besides, you're always spewing negativity on this board when it comes to you being a supposed "fan", so maybe if another team hires him you can jump ship and go root for him there.
Boooohoooo cry me a river.
So I was supposed to be positive all these years with Gene and Caldwell/Bradley just because? lol
Negativity? I guess for someone like you being realistic = negativity
So what you are really saying is:
Good picks were thanks to Caldwell
Bad picks/decisions thanks to Coughlin
Hilarious xD
TC had to go, it was clear for everyone, that doesn't mean Caldwell should have stayed.
BTW, Coughlin left and Yawn still didn't wanna be here.
Coughlin is gone, yet Harrison was glad to leave.
So which is it? they share blame/praise for every move (including Fournette) or what?
I ain't leaving but if my posts make you cry so much maybe you should put me on ignore.
Oohhh, you told me to cry. Oh noes!
I made it clear THREE times in this thread that I also think Caldwell has done a bad job, so I guess you need your eyes checked or you're illiterate. My bet is on the latter. I never said good = caldwell, or bad = coughlin, it's nowhere near that binary. All I said was that from my point of view, Coughlin's fingerprints were all over the fournette pick.
No ones says you must be constantly a "rah rah" fan, but misreading and contorting posts doesn't help your cause
(09-21-2020, 05:02 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]While I agree when you look at the entirety of caldwell’s record, there is no way you can claim he is a top GM, let’s not discount the possibility he may have learned a lot over the last 8 years. How many of you would say you were as good at your job day one as you were 5-10 years in?
So are you willing bet he has learned and extend him next season if we end up 5-11 or 6-10 this year? Are you willing to reward an 8 year winning percentage of .321? I am not willing to make that bet. I'd cut both Morrone and him loose and start fresh for what would appear to be an attractive job for a GM given the number of draft picks they would have to work with. It is the only reasonable decision at that point.
(09-21-2020, 05:01 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2020, 04:48 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]The part I did not comprehend is how you assume Fournette was Coughlin's pick. That is pure speculation and a defense for Caldwell when neither you, nor I, have any real idea. Unlike you, I am not numb about it, and I believe Caldwell is THE problem. Other than that, we're on the same page.
Circumstantial evidence to me points to Fournette as Coughlin influenced. your mileage may vary of course.
Yeah... we do not see this the same way. But that is fine. What is clear and objective though is a career record of 36-76 under Caldwell's leadership. Even worse than Gene Smith's record. That cannot be disputed.
(09-21-2020, 05:02 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]While I agree when you look at the entirety of caldwell’s record, there is no way you can claim he is a top GM, let’s not discount the possibility he may have learned a lot over the last 8 years. How many of you would say you were as good at your job day one as you were 5-10 years in?
This is also a great point. As tough as it can be to forget past mistakes, those are sunk costs. If you are judging Caldwell's ability moving forward this past off-season is the best predictor of future success. Everything before is tangled up with TC or doesn't take into account 4 extra years of on the job experience.
Edit: I still expect to see at least an even record this year before I put down the pitchfork.
(09-21-2020, 05:00 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2020, 04:30 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Caldwell has a winning season, 2017. If Coughlin gets credit, then so does Caldwell. Some picks bare clear trademarks of either or, but many can't be differentiated and were joint decisions. Caldwell has made his fair share of blunders with and without Coughlin.
However, when it came to reports of player dissatisfaction, trade demands, and the NFLPA letter debacle, that was traced back to Coughlin. It's no coincidence he was fired but not Caldwell once that letter came out.
I think someone, aka you, is a bit salty his gramps TC got fired. It is after all his second time being sent packing after poor decisions costing this franchise.
Besides, you're always spewing negativity on this board when it comes to you being a supposed "fan", so maybe if another team hires him you can jump ship and go root for him there.
Boooohoooo cry me a river.
So I was supposed to be positive all these years with Gene and Caldwell/Bradley just because? lol
Negativity? I guess for someone like you being realistic = negativity
So what you are really saying is:
Good picks were thanks to Caldwell
Bad picks/decisions thanks to Coughlin
Hilarious xD
TC had to go, it was clear for everyone, that doesn't mean Caldwell should have stayed.
BTW, Coughlin left and Yawn still didn't wanna be here.
Coughlin is gone, yet Harrison was glad to leave.
So which is it? they share blame/praise for every move (including Fournette) or what?
I ain't leaving but if my posts make you cry so much maybe you should put me on ignore.
Stop preaching the truth around here. The blind fans do not like the truth in their face.
(09-21-2020, 05:02 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]While I agree when you look at the entirety of caldwell’s record, there is no way you can claim he is a top GM, let’s not discount the possibility he may have learned a lot over the last 8 years. How many of you would say you were as good at your job day one as you were 5-10 years in?
![[Image: tenor.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/images/63470b0faf1dab36d54cd5fbdfa0ee01/tenor.gif)
Caldwell's first five 1st round draft picks are no longer on the team. 1 winning season with a 10-6 record in a decade. That's not the sign of a top GM.
(09-21-2020, 06:54 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2020, 05:00 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Boooohoooo cry me a river.
So I was supposed to be positive all these years with Gene and Caldwell/Bradley just because? lol
Negativity? I guess for someone like you being realistic = negativity
So what you are really saying is:
Good picks were thanks to Caldwell
Bad picks/decisions thanks to Coughlin
Hilarious xD
TC had to go, it was clear for everyone, that doesn't mean Caldwell should have stayed.
BTW, Coughlin left and Yawn still didn't wanna be here.
Coughlin is gone, yet Harrison was glad to leave.
So which is it? they share blame/praise for every move (including Fournette) or what?
I ain't leaving but if my posts make you cry so much maybe you should put me on ignore.
Stop preaching the truth around here. The blind fans do not like the truth in their face.
(09-21-2020, 05:02 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]While I agree when you look at the entirety of caldwell’s record, there is no way you can claim he is a top GM, let’s not discount the possibility he may have learned a lot over the last 8 years. How many of you would say you were as good at your job day one as you were 5-10 years in?
Name some good GM that don't have hall of fame head coaches then.
Which GMs are responsible for winning records consistently and active in the nfl that don't have great HCs?
(09-21-2020, 11:41 PM)sfljaguarsfan Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2020, 06:54 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Stop preaching the truth around here. The blind fans do not like the truth in their face.
Name some good GM that don't have hall of fame head coaches then.
Which GMs are responsible for winning records consistently and active in the nfl that don't have great HCs?
That is an impossible question to answer because people just assume if you are winning that the HC is great. But I would say Bill Belichick the GM is as good or better than BB the HC. He finds the talent that best fits the scheme and roles he wants each of his players to have. Like Bill Parcells always said, "if you want me to cook the meal, I should be allowed to shop for the groceries". Talent is not just getting height, weight, and speed guys... its about getting players with specific skill sets to fill roles.
(09-21-2020, 06:06 PM)rufftime Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2020, 05:02 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]While I agree when you look at the entirety of caldwell’s record, there is no way you can claim he is a top GM, let’s not discount the possibility he may have learned a lot over the last 8 years. How many of you would say you were as good at your job day one as you were 5-10 years in?
This is also a great point. As tough as it can be to forget past mistakes, those are sunk costs. If you are judging Caldwell's ability moving forward this past off-season is the best predictor of future success. Everything before is tangled up with TC or doesn't take into account 4 extra years of on the job experience.
Edit: I still expect to see at least an even record this year before I put down the pitchfork.
If this team has another down year, then yes Caldwell should be shown the door. On the other hand, If the team overperforms, he should stay. Time will tell.
(09-22-2020, 08:32 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2020, 06:06 PM)rufftime Wrote: [ -> ]This is also a great point. As tough as it can be to forget past mistakes, those are sunk costs. If you are judging Caldwell's ability moving forward this past off-season is the best predictor of future success. Everything before is tangled up with TC or doesn't take into account 4 extra years of on the job experience.
Edit: I still expect to see at least an even record this year before I put down the pitchfork.
If this team has another down year, then yes Caldwell should be shown the door. On the other hand, If the team overperforms, he should stay. Time will tell.
I think if this team gets to 7-9, with this roster as young as it is, and our QB of the future already on the roster, then we should stay the course.
(09-22-2020, 09:14 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 08:32 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]If this team has another down year, then yes Caldwell should be shown the door. On the other hand, If the team overperforms, he should stay. Time will tell.
I think if this team gets to 7-9, with this roster as young as it is, and our QB of the future already on the roster, then we should stay the course.
You mean with DC and Marrone?
About Marrone - Really? you want the team to still have dumb penalties every game? you still want Wash next year? because it is clear Marrone is not gonna let him go. The O-line is still not good enough either. Also what would this team be without Gruden?
DC - His record is awful but he seems to have had a good draft this year (while still haven't seen enough out of Chaisson who Caldwell admitted he would have drafted over Simmons if Henderson was gone). Also like FBT said, maybe he's learned about his mistakes in all this time... not that he deserved all that time though.
And about Gruden, just because he is a good OC doesn't mean he will be a good HC. Washington was awful with him.
This will play itself out over the course of the season.
As it looks right now, it's reasonable to say Caldwell and Marrone have done a remarkable job getting this team to a competitive level for this season. There is plenty of time for that to change, of course.
Let it play out.
I'm hoping Caldwell has learned enough through all of this to realize
that at least wash needs to go .... and I hope marrone as well.
It would help a lot with his rep.
Promoting Gruden and letting him revise the coaching staff for 2021 would only mean good things.
(09-22-2020, 11:10 AM)Mowerguy Wrote: [ -> ]I'm hoping Caldwell has learned enough through all of this to realize
that at least wash needs to go .... and I hope marrone as well.
It would help a lot with his rep.
Promoting Gruden and letting him revise the coaching staff for 2021 would only mean good things.
Personally i think OC is his calling. His HC stint in Washington was pretty bad. I'd prefer we kept him as OC and kept this offense trending the way it is. But no doubt I feel we need a DC for sure.
(09-22-2020, 09:26 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 09:14 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think if this team gets to 7-9, with this roster as young as it is, and our QB of the future already on the roster, then we should stay the course.
You mean with DC and Marrone?
About Marrone - Really? you want the team to still have dumb penalties every game? you still want Wash next year? because it is clear Marrone is not gonna let him go. The O-line is still not good enough either. Also what would this team be without Gruden?
DC - His record is awful but he seems to have had a good draft this year (while still haven't seen enough out of Chaisson who Caldwell admitted he would have drafted over Simmons if Henderson was gone). Also like FBT said, maybe he's learned about his mistakes in all this time... not that he deserved all that time though.
And about Gruden, just because he is a good OC doesn't mean he will be a good HC. Washington was awful with him.
Here's what'll happen... Marrone will get fired after the bye for making more squib kick calls. Gruden will become interim HC, and they'll go on a late season rally but barely miss the playoffs. Wash will "go his separate ways" for the opportunity to reunite with Bradley in SD.
(09-21-2020, 10:22 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2020, 12:13 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve always been a Caldwell fan. Your only as good as your QB.
Yeah, we should be thankful to Coughlin for Minshew... And Chark and Allen.
We can also thank Caldwell for Bortles and Bradley.
We can't be sure if Minshew was Caldwell's idea or Coughlin's... but we know that Coughlin usually phoned in the late rounds of the draft during his first stint in Jacksonville. In fact, a lot of those late round picks from 95 to 02 were actually scouted by Gene Smith.