(12-26-2020, 03:01 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 12:42 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]He should of sat this year or most of it anyway. People like to start a QB or not just on draft position. Drafft position shouldnt determine whether you start a guy or not
Agreed. I wouldn't play Trevor Lawrence behind our line as it stands now. While I've been pleasantly surprised by the play on the interior, our OT's have been dreadful. We gotta find a new LT and we must bring in a competent RT to compete with Taylor for the starting position. Both Robinson and Taylor have been God-awful in pass protection.
Our OL isn't as awful as people try and say it is. Could it get better? Definitely, but it's a middle of the road OL. Our QBs aren't getting killed out there game after game.
https://twitter.com/Brickwallblitz/statu...1194808321
So if I had to pick between these two choices:
A) Trevor Lawrence with the #1 pick, and an average GM, and
B) Any of the other top-4 QBs with the #2 pick, and a GREAT GM,
I would pick B. Not even close.
Of course, ideally, it would be TL and a great GM, but I'm just trying to illustrate that getting a great GM is so much more important than getting that #1 pick.
(12-27-2020, 08:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So if I had to pick between these two choices:
A) Trevor Lawrence with the #1 pick, and an average GM, and
B) Any of the other top-4 QBs with the #2 pick, and a GREAT GM,
I would pick B. Not even close.
Of course, ideally, it would be TL and a great GM, but I'm just trying to illustrate that getting a great GM is so much more important than getting that #1 pick.
B for me too but I want the Jags to get a top tier QB. So both.
The problem with saying you prefer "B" is that your GM might never get a shot at an elite QB. If you think Lawrence is going to be elite then you have to take him and the average GM and either replace the GM later for someone better, or hope during one of the many consecutive years you're going to the playoffs (since you have an elite QB) that the stars align and you get a Superbowl win.
The QB position is too important, we've seen that here first hand since we've never had a great one. It's been so bad here that a middle of the pack starter like Brunell is considered our all time best. It's no coincidence that even with a future hall of fame coach and an all star level team we never even made it to the big game.
If you believe Lawrence is an elite level QB then the Jaguars would instantly become a national level team when you draft him, like the Steelers or Packers, and it's going to really piss the mainstream sports media off.
(12-27-2020, 08:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So if I had to pick between these two choices:
A) Trevor Lawrence with the #1 pick, and an average GM, and
B) Any of the other top-4 QBs with the #2 pick, and a GREAT GM,
I would pick B. Not even close.
Of course, ideally, it would be TL and a great GM, but I'm just trying to illustrate that getting a great GM is so much more important than getting that #1 pick.
I'm not picking either of them, because neither will lead us to an eventual Superbowl. It has to be a combination of both. We desperately need a franchise QB
and a really good GM that knows how to build around him. Luckily, we are in the very rare position to make that happen as long as we just lose out and make sensible decisions. I just pray that everything works out. As a 25 year fan of this team, I think we've suffered long enough. It's time to see some light at the end of the tunnel.
(12-27-2020, 10:20 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with saying you prefer "B" is that your GM might never get a shot at an elite QB. If you think Lawrence is going to be elite then you have to take him and the average GM and either replace the GM later for someone better, or hope during one of the many consecutive years you're going to the playoffs (since you have an elite QB) that the stars align and you get a Superbowl win.
The QB position is too important, we've seen that here first hand since we've never had a great one. It's been so bad here that a middle of the pack starter like Brunell is considered our all time best. It's no coincidence that even with a future hall of fame coach and an all star level team we never even made it to the big game.
If you believe Lawrence is an elite level QB then the Jaguars would instantly become a national level team when you draft him, like the Steelers or Packers, and it's going to really piss the mainstream sports media off.
We had a shot at drafting most of the elite QBs in the NFL but our GMs passed on the pick.
It's not about draft position. It's about recognizing the players who have all the tools both mental and physical to be elite.
(12-27-2020, 01:16 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2020, 10:20 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with saying you prefer "B" is that your GM might never get a shot at an elite QB. If you think Lawrence is going to be elite then you have to take him and the average GM and either replace the GM later for someone better, or hope during one of the many consecutive years you're going to the playoffs (since you have an elite QB) that the stars align and you get a Superbowl win.
The QB position is too important, we've seen that here first hand since we've never had a great one. It's been so bad here that a middle of the pack starter like Brunell is considered our all time best. It's no coincidence that even with a future hall of fame coach and an all star level team we never even made it to the big game.
If you believe Lawrence is an elite level QB then the Jaguars would instantly become a national level team when you draft him, like the Steelers or Packers, and it's going to really piss the mainstream sports media off.
We had a shot at drafting most of the elite QBs in the NFL but our GMs passed on the pick.
It's not about draft position. It's about recognizing the players who have all the tools both mental and physical to be elite.
I don't disagree, but you can't actually guarantee a great QB will come along while a guy is GM of a team.
From 2006 to 2013 if you weren't picking number one overall in 2012 there was no elite QB that came out. The closest was Matt Ryan and he went #3. If you have an elite GM you're not picking at #3 and you're either hoping they find the next Mahomes where no one understood what they were seeing, or the next Wilson, which was a case of the same.
Like I said, the argument depends on whether Lawrence actually is an elite QB in the NFL. If he's not then sure taking an elite GM is better, but if he is then he's worth much more than an elite GM. Much the way a team like the Packers had their pick of coach and GM, if you have an elite QB everyone wants in. Heck, even free agents will take less money to play for the team with a great QB. Remember when the Jags thought they had signed Cobb, but then he went ahead and signed with Green Bay for less money? Get an elite QB and that kind of thing happens for us instead of against us.
Stafford was picked 1st overall during that time and never developed into an elite QB. Jamarcus Russell was a 1st overall bust and 1st overall Bradford ended up a journeyman QB which amounts to a bust.
So only 2 out of 5 QBs taken 1st overall you could consider elite for at least a good portion of their career (Luck and Newton). Meanwhile outside the 1st overall pick, 2 became elite, 3 started in the Superbowl, 2 won rings, and at least 6 made the prowbowl as many times or more than Stafford.
So over the time you picked to show you need a 1st overall pick to get an elite QB, you were as likely to pick a bust as you were to pick an elite QB with that pick.
(12-27-2020, 06:56 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Stafford was picked 1st overall during that time and never developed into an elite QB. Jamarcus Russell was a 1st overall bust and 1st overall Bradford ended up a journeyman QB which amounts to a bust.
So only 2 out of 5 QBs taken 1st overall you could consider elite for at least a good portion of their career (Luck and Newton). Meanwhile outside the 1st overall pick, 2 became elite, 3 started in the Superbowl, 2 won rings, and at least 6 made the prowbowl as many times or more than Stafford.
So over the time you picked to show you need a 1st overall pick to get an elite QB, you were as likely to pick a bust as you were to pick an elite QB with that pick.
Yes, every other pick combined is more likely to produce a franchise QB than the first overall pick...good job showing that math. However, the first overall pick is far more likely than any other single pick.
(12-27-2020, 07:10 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2020, 06:56 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Stafford was picked 1st overall during that time and never developed into an elite QB. Jamarcus Russell was a 1st overall bust and 1st overall Bradford ended up a journeyman QB which amounts to a bust.
So only 2 out of 5 QBs taken 1st overall you could consider elite for at least a good portion of their career (Luck and Newton). Meanwhile outside the 1st overall pick, 2 became elite, 3 started in the Superbowl, 2 won rings, and at least 6 made the prowbowl as many times or more than Stafford.
So over the time you picked to show you need a 1st overall pick to get an elite QB, you were as likely to pick a bust as you were to pick an elite QB with that pick.
Yes, every other pick combined is more likely to produce a franchise QB than the first overall pick...good job showing that math. However, the first overall pick is far more likely than any other single pick.
Of course the point goes over your head.
What it shows is that a good GM can find a franchise QB without having to rely on having the first overall pick.
In addition to getting a good GM, I hope that the Jags get a good coach as well and find a much better defensive coordinator. I know that a lot of people have tried to point to QB play as a major problem with this team, but I think that the shape the defense is in is a bigger problem and one of the worst problems with this team. It's ridiculous how many points the Jags have given up this season against other teams, including teams that were struggling before they played them.
And I would like to see changes/improvements made to the coaching staff. If we don't get better coaches along with a good GM, we could end up seeing something similar to Justin Herbert with the Chargers. Where you possibly have a very talented QB at the helm, but the team still struggles to win because of poor coaching decisions and not having the right personnel in place. The Chargers should have a much better record than they have as they have lost a lot of competitive/close games, largely to poor coaching decisions.
Posts like this trying to take us back to the dark ages. We finally got the number one overall in a year with a clear cut best QB prospect who has living up to the hype all year. We won the lottery. Guys are right that we need someone great at drafting and developing offensive lineman. Actually that is supposed to be marrones thing. Would be ironic if he was kept.
(12-27-2020, 08:56 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2020, 07:10 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, every other pick combined is more likely to produce a franchise QB than the first overall pick...good job showing that math. However, the first overall pick is far more likely than any other single pick.
Of course the point goes over your head.
What it shows is that a good GM can find a franchise QB without having to rely on having the first overall pick.
Or.... it’s luck.
You think it was skill that the Pats got Brady? Or Seahawks Wilson?
There is no right formula for drafting a QB. However, in this current season, I’d much rather have pick #1 than pick 7.
(12-27-2020, 09:22 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2020, 08:56 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Of course the point goes over your head.
What it shows is that a good GM can find a franchise QB without having to rely on having the first overall pick.
Or.... it’s luck.
You think it was skill that the Pats got Brady? Or Seahawks Wilson?
There is no right formula for drafting a QB. However, in this current season, I’d much rather have pick #1 than pick 7.
Brady was luck but Wilson and Mahomes were the result of a good GM seeing ability that others underestimated.
(12-27-2020, 09:49 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2020, 09:22 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Or.... it’s luck.
You think it was skill that the Pats got Brady? Or Seahawks Wilson?
There is no right formula for drafting a QB. However, in this current season, I’d much rather have pick #1 than pick 7.
Brady was luck but Wilson and Mahomes were the result of a good GM seeing ability that others underestimated.
Wilson went in the third round, let's not overstate the ability of the Seahawks to evaluate talent. Mahomes, on the other hand, was clearly recognized by the chiefs, they traded up for him.
(12-27-2020, 09:53 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2020, 09:49 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Brady was luck but Wilson and Mahomes were the result of a good GM seeing ability that others underestimated.
Wilson went in the third round, let's not overstate the ability of the Seahawks to evaluate talent. Mahomes, on the other hand, was clearly recognized by the chiefs, they traded up for him.
And meticulously tutored. Remember Andy Reid sitting on the bench with Mahomes while the defense was on field? I don't remember ever seeing another coach do that.
I would think we would hve an option for the best GM available because of our situation to draft a Franchise QB
(12-27-2020, 10:08 PM)JaguarWC Wrote: [ -> ]I would think we would hve an option for the best GM available because of our situation to draft a Franchise QB
exactly right. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Getting the first draft choice is just one of several benefits the Jags offer to GM candidates.
(12-27-2020, 09:49 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2020, 09:22 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Or.... it’s luck.
You think it was skill that the Pats got Brady? Or Seahawks Wilson?
There is no right formula for drafting a QB. However, in this current season, I’d much rather have pick #1 than pick 7.
Brady was luck but Wilson and Mahomes were the result of a good GM seeing ability that others underestimated.
So they knew Wilson would be that good and yet waited until the 3rd round to get him.... interesting.
Mahomes on the other hand is a great example of a HC knowing great talent when he sees it and knowing what to do with it.
(12-27-2020, 09:53 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2020, 09:49 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Brady was luck but Wilson and Mahomes were the result of a good GM seeing ability that others underestimated.
Wilson went in the third round, let's not overstate the ability of the Seahawks to evaluate talent. Mahomes, on the other hand, was clearly recognized by the chiefs, they traded up for him.
Just because you think a player will be something special doesn't mean you have to over draft them. A good GM knows a players draft value.
Seattle received criticism for the pick because people thought they were foolish to waste a 3rd rd pick on a QB after just spending big bucks on a FA QB.
The fact that they were willing to start him immediately like a first rounder shows you how much faith they had in the pick.