Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

I'm not a fan of Riddick and I saw some murmurs that he was in the field of consideration for our GM.

Keep him away from our draft picks.

(12-27-2020, 08:56 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2020, 07:10 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, every other pick combined is more likely to produce a franchise QB than the first overall pick...good job showing that math. However, the first overall pick is far more likely than any other single pick.

Of course the point goes over your head.

What it shows is that a good GM can find a franchise QB without having to rely on having the first overall pick.

This assumes:

1.  There are great QBs to be had beyond the 1st overall pick in a given draft; and

2.  That good GM is in a position to draft that great QB.

Of course there are numerous examples of GMs finding great QBs at various points in the draft.

But in order for that to happen, you have to count on more and more teams to get it wrong.  The lower a great QB falls in a draft, the more luck plays into the GM getting that.

Put this into perspective.  Bill Walsh was considered a QB/passing game guru.  He spread the WCO throughout the league.  He drafted Joe Montana in the 3rd round.  But here's the thing....he was set to draft his college QB, Steve Dils, instead of Joe Montana.  He had to be talked by team scouts into taking Montana over Dils.

The reasons it's kinda pointless to compare the number of great QBs taken first overall to the # of QBs taken in spots other than #1 overall because in any given draft, there are 255 more picks than the 1 #1 overall pick in a draft.  But taking a bad QB first overall happens e because people make mistakes in player evaluation...just like Bill Walsh.  Not because they picked first.

(12-27-2020, 10:17 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2020, 09:49 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Brady was luck but Wilson and Mahomes were the result of a good GM seeing ability that others underestimated.

So they knew Wilson would be that good and yet waited until the 3rd round to get him.... interesting.

Mahomes on the other hand is a great example of a HC knowing great talent when he sees it and knowing what to do with it.

Why is it interesting? That they didn't waste earlier picks to get a guy they knew would be around at pick 70? That's what a good GM flipping does!

(12-28-2020, 09:55 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2020, 10:17 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]So they knew Wilson would be that good and yet waited until the 3rd round to get him.... interesting.

Mahomes on the other hand is a great example of a HC knowing great talent when he sees it and knowing what to do with it.

Why is it interesting? That they didn't waste earlier picks to get a guy they knew would be around at pick 70? That's what a good GM flipping does!

Hahahaha they didn’t know he would be there. That’s the point. They got lucky. And Wilson wouldn’t have been a waste if they selected him earlier.....

If you deem someone as a franchise guy, you don’t wait around for other teams to mess up and pass on him because someone just may take him.

(12-28-2020, 10:07 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2020, 09:55 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Why is it interesting? That they didn't waste earlier picks to get a guy they knew would be around at pick 70? That's what a good GM flipping does!

Hahahaha they didn’t know he would be there. That’s the point. They got lucky. And Wilson wouldn’t have been a waste if they selected him earlier.....

If you deem someone as a franchise guy, you don’t wait around for other teams to mess up and pass on him because someone just may take him.

Yeah, I hear teams saying that all the time.  "We knew Joe Montana would still be there in the 3rd round.  We're geniuses."  No, you're not.  You took a huge unnecessary gamble that an all time great QB would not get snapped up by another team, in order to draft some other guy named James Owens with your second round pick.

(12-27-2020, 08:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So if I had to pick between these two choices:

A) Trevor Lawrence with the #1 pick, and an average GM, and
B) Any of the other top-4 QBs with the #2 pick, and a GREAT GM,

I would pick B.   Not even close.  

Of course, ideally, it would be TL and a great GM, but I'm just trying to illustrate that getting a great GM is so much more important than getting that #1 pick.

I Concur to your sentiment that the GM trumps (no pun intended) any #1 pick. Of course that GM needs to get that pick right while strategizing for the remainder of the picks of which must be on point as well. No GM will hit on all of the picks but that percentage should be overwelmingly in the positive. 

IJS...

NH3...

Starting tomorrow, we can start interviewing GM's candidates who are currently employed by other teams. Now, we should start interviewing the best candidates.

(01-03-2021, 11:02 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Starting tomorrow, we can start interviewing GM's candidates who are currently employed by other teams. Now, we should start interviewing the best candidates.

i wonder who jumps to the front of the line if Urban Meyer is indeed hired first? I'm not one for hiring coaches first and GM's later but it appears that this is how it's going to go if Meyer comes to town.

(01-03-2021, 11:02 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Starting tomorrow, we can start interviewing GM's candidates who are currently employed by other teams. Now, we should start interviewing the best candidates.

Unfortunately the best candidates will be unavailable if Meyer is hired first. Hopefully the best candidate is hired first in order to squelch the possibility of Meyer coaching here.

What if the pundits are wrong and Meyer is hired as our next GM?


Crazier [BLEEP] has happened..

(01-03-2021, 02:31 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]What if the pundits are wrong and Meyer is hired as our next GM?


Crazier [BLEEP] has happened..

That would solidify the suspicion that Khan was putting the fix in to move the team.

(01-03-2021, 02:34 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-03-2021, 02:31 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]What if the pundits are wrong and Meyer is hired as our next GM?


Crazier [BLEEP] has happened..

That would solidify the suspicion that Khan was putting the fix in to move the team.

Dude that fix seems like it's been in for a while now.. Ever since the contract to play games in London..

(01-03-2021, 02:36 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-03-2021, 02:34 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]That would solidify the suspicion that Khan was putting the fix in to move the team.

Dude that fix seems like it's been in for a while now.. Ever since the contract to play games in London..

The article Marty posted a couple of weeks ago did a great job of explaining why Khan did that. He's under pressure from other league owners to contribute to the profit sharing pile. He makes a lot of money playing games in London, which allows him to contribute more. Much more than he makes playing in Jacksonville. 

Now, if Khan manages to get the proper staff in place to capitalize on Trevor Lawrence, ticket and merchandise sales go up, the city is more receptive to funding Lot J and most importantly, a stadium upgrade. A stadium upgrade with shade, or even better, a dome would go a long way to this team being more stable and lucrative. 

This is Khan's big chance to turn the fortunes of this franchise around. Let's hope he doesn't blow it.

(01-03-2021, 02:43 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-03-2021, 02:36 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Dude that fix seems like it's been in for a while now.. Ever since the contract to play games in London..

The article Marty posted a couple of weeks ago did a great job of explaining why Khan did that. He's under pressure from other league owners to contribute to the profit sharing pile. He makes a lot of money playing games in London, which allows him to contribute more. Much more than he makes playing in Jacksonville. 

Now, if Khan manages to get the proper staff in place to capitalize on Trevor Lawrence, ticket and merchandise sales go up, the city is more receptive to funding Lot J and most importantly, a stadium upgrade. A stadium upgrade with shade, or even better, a dome would go a long way to this team being more stable and lucrative. 

This is Khan's big chance to turn the fortunes of this franchise around. Let's hope he doesn't blow it.

God, I hope that's true.. Just something in the back of my mind though..

(01-03-2021, 02:25 PM)MJonesD_32 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-03-2021, 11:02 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Starting tomorrow, we can start interviewing GM's candidates who are currently employed by other teams. Now, we should start interviewing the best candidates.

i wonder who jumps to the front of the line if Urban Meyer is indeed hired first? I'm not one for hiring coaches first and GM's later but it appears that this is how it's going to go if Meyer comes to town.

If we hire Meyer before hiring a GM, we're getting the bottom of the barrel. Who would want to come to a team where they let you buy the groceries, but you can't hire your own chef? If they are gonna force a head coach on the new GM, that is gonna eliminate all the best candidates.

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(01-03-2021, 02:31 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]What if the pundits are wrong and Meyer is hired as our next GM?


Crazier [BLEEP] has happened..

It would be typical of this clueless ownership and ruin all the goodwill the fans had after finally seeing some hope on the horizon. So, it's probably gonna happen, because that's what the Jaguars do.

(01-03-2021, 04:13 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-03-2021, 02:25 PM)MJonesD_32 Wrote: [ -> ]i wonder who jumps to the front of the line if Urban Meyer is indeed hired first? I'm not one for hiring coaches first and GM's later but it appears that this is how it's going to go if Meyer comes to town.

If we hire Meyer before hiring a GM, we're getting the bottom of the barrel. Who would want to come to a team where they let you buy the groceries, but you can't hire your own chef? If they are gonna force a head coach on the new GM, that is gonna eliminate all the best candidates.

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(01-03-2021, 02:31 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]What if the pundits are wrong and Meyer is hired as our next GM?


Crazier [BLEEP] has happened..

It would be typical of this clueless ownership and ruin all the goodwill the fans had after finally seeing some hope on the horizon. So, it's probably gonna happen, because that's what the Jaguars do.

Wouldn't our current interim GM just take over?

(01-03-2021, 04:17 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-03-2021, 04:13 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]If we hire Meyer before hiring a GM, we're getting the bottom of the barrel. Who would want to come to a team where they let you buy the groceries, but you can't hire your own chef? If they are gonna force a head coach on the new GM, that is gonna eliminate all the best candidates.

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It would be typical of this clueless ownership and ruin all the goodwill the fans had after finally seeing some hope on the horizon. So, it's probably gonna happen, because that's what the Jaguars do.

Wouldn't our current interim GM just take over?

Baalke? That would be even worse. He is the bottom of the barrel of all the names thrown out there. Hiring him would be completely lazy and lackadaisical on the part of the ownership. It would either prove how clueless they are or that they just didn't care.

(01-03-2021, 04:25 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-03-2021, 04:17 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Wouldn't our current interim GM just take over?

Baalke? That would be even worse. He is the bottom of the barrel of all the names thrown out there. Hiring him would be completely lazy and lackadaisical on the part of the ownership. It would either prove how clueless they are or that they just didn't care.

Isn't he the one pushing for Meyer?

Hopefully this isn't true since our GM is basically the afterthought of the hiring process.

(01-03-2021, 04:13 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-03-2021, 02:25 PM)MJonesD_32 Wrote: [ -> ]i wonder who jumps to the front of the line if Urban Meyer is indeed hired first? I'm not one for hiring coaches first and GM's later but it appears that this is how it's going to go if Meyer comes to town.

If we hire Meyer before hiring a GM, we're getting the bottom of the barrel. Who would want to come to a team where they let you buy the groceries, but you can't hire your own chef? If they are gonna force a head coach on the new GM, that is gonna eliminate all the best candidates.

---

(01-03-2021, 02:31 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]What if the pundits are wrong and Meyer is hired as our next GM?


Crazier [BLEEP] has happened..

It would be typical of this clueless ownership and ruin all the goodwill the fans had after finally seeing some hope on the horizon. So, it's probably gonna happen, because that's what the Jaguars do.

So why is hiring the HC before the GM a problem? Either way you slice it their philosophies have to line up. I can understand being upset if the HC is hired and the GM is hired without the input of the HC. Just like I can understand getting upset that the HC was hired without the input of the GM. The chances of their styles meshing are very low if neither party has the input. However, if either is hired before the other and they get a say in the candidate, what does it matter? The HC coaches the GM finds the talent. If their philosophies are the same it doesn't really matter, at least in my eyes. 

Just because a team hires the best GM available and the best HC available doesn't mean success. They have to have the same ideas on how to run a team and what type of team they want to field, if they do and the GM finds the talent and the HC can coach that talent, I don't see the problem. 

Am I missing something?