(11-07-2021, 12:51 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2021, 12:45 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, everyone just loves MARTA.
Public transportation doesn't ask for you to love it. It just ask for you to use it, and they do.
Your life is one giant liberal bumper sticker of other people's thoughts and quotes.
(11-07-2021, 12:30 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2021, 09:22 AM)wrong_box Wrote: [ -> ]ok so people are supposed to do what after getting off a train? Call a cab to get to your job? Ride a bike? C'mon Joe, that [BLEEP] aint gonna work.
perhaps you need to get out of Jacksonville in your lifetime to see how transit systems work.
well lets see here, I was born In Idaho, lived there until I was 20 when I joined the Navy, lived in Il. (very close to Chicago) then to Charleston, SC, THEN I got transferred to Jacksonville, stayed there 17 years, moved back to Idaho for a short time, then moved to Spartanburg, SC for a few years, then back to Jacksonville for a few years, now I'm in Pa and have been here over a decade... I have also driven nearly coast to coast at least 5 times (all my family still lives in Id.), passing through many major cities so, I think Ive been around enough to see other places that have commuter systems, around this great country of ours. I would love to see a mass transit system that was viable and economical in this country that would work, however, there are too many challenges to make such a system work in this country.
There are so many small towns that such a system wouldnt work in because of the number of people who live in them. Large cities maybe, but there are so many people in Urban settings far out from major cities that it just wouldnt work. It would take forever and a day to create enough rail systems, shuttles and bus systems for this to work.
How is the monorail system in Jax coming along?
MARTA is actually a bad example of why Atlanta is ready. MARTA only has one hub and four spokes. Most city bus and rail systems only have one place where you can switch from one line to the other. And that doesn't really work very well. A good bus or rail system has a beltway going around the city as well as spokes. The buses in Charlotte and Atlanta have this.
(11-07-2021, 12:41 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2021, 12:35 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Well, in Lakeland, Bradenton, Clermont, Orange Park, Madison, Lake City they've all pretty much failed. Since most of the Country is like those places it seems we're at an impasse.
And in atlanta, Charlotte, and perhaps a few other cities up that way, they are totally ready for this.
(11-07-2021, 12:45 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2021, 12:41 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]And in atlanta, Charlotte, and perhaps a few other cities up that way, they are totally ready for this.
Yeah, everyone just loves MARTA.
(11-07-2021, 12:51 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2021, 12:45 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, everyone just loves MARTA.
Public transportation doesn't ask for you to love it. It just ask for you to use it, and they do.
(11-07-2021, 02:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]MARTA is actually a bad example of why Atlanta is ready. MARTA only has one hub and four spokes. Most city bus and rail systems only have one place where you can switch from one line to the other. And that doesn't really work very well. A good bus or rail system has a beltway going around the city as well as spokes. The buses in Charlotte and Atlanta have this.
Marta sucks and wastes a ton of money. Unless you are right next to a stop, it doesn't work well. Most people don't use the bus because it has the same problem of a car, it still has to drive in the traffic. The whole system doesn't work because it has been run by less qualified leaders for decades like any Democrat city.
I'm not sure where you think you got your Marta and Atlanta transportation info from but it isn't correct. I could drive to the airport from the last stop on the north line before the train made it. Even people who are forced to use it will tell you it sucks. Then add you have wait outside for bus in hot or rainy weather and you see why it doesn't work.
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(11-07-2021, 02:32 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2021, 12:41 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]And in atlanta, Charlotte, and perhaps a few other cities up that way, they are totally ready for this.
(11-07-2021, 12:45 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, everyone just loves MARTA.
(11-07-2021, 12:51 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Public transportation doesn't ask for you to love it. It just ask for you to use it, and they do.
(11-07-2021, 02:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]MARTA is actually a bad example of why Atlanta is ready. MARTA only has one hub and four spokes. Most city bus and rail systems only have one place where you can switch from one line to the other. And that doesn't really work very well. A good bus or rail system has a beltway going around the city as well as spokes. The buses in Charlotte and Atlanta have this.
Marta sucks and wastes a ton of money. Unless you are right next to a stop, it doesn't work well. Most people don't use the bus because it has the same problem of a car, it still has to drive in the traffic. The whole system doesn't work because it has been run by less qualified leaders for decades like any Democrat city.
I'm not sure where you think you got your Marta and Atlanta transportation info from but it isn't correct. I could drive to the airport from the last stop on the north line before the train made it. Even people who are forced to use it will tell you it sucks. Then add you have wait outside for bus in hot or rainy weather and you see why it doesn't work.
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There are people who use the MARTA and Atlanta's buses by choice. Neither is perfect, but both work. The point is not that they're happy, some are some aren't. The point is those people aren't on the interstates making Atlanta traffic worse.
Not everyone lives in a city that has public transportation. These people are ridiculous.
(11-07-2021, 10:47 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Not everyone lives in a city that has public transportation. These people are ridiculous.
And those people will keep their cars. New public transit for some, keeping cars for others.
(11-07-2021, 10:31 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2021, 10:07 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]They're supposed to get off the Intercity train, and get on the commuter rail, or the city bus. Cities like Charlotte and Atlanta that already have good bus systems are ready for Intercity rail. Cities like Orlando and Tampa that don't, are not.
I've been to Switzerland a few times, and I always marvel at their public transportation system. Trains, trams, buses, boats... they are all interconnected, and run like clockwork. Everything is on time, everything is clean, it's all synced up and it all works perfectly.
Funny, I rode a bus just a month or two ago. It was on time, but of course, 30 minutes slower than an equilvelent car, dirty as heck, and a particularly pugnant/dirty hobo was boarding on it halfway to my stop. Yeah I dont think I want better public transport.
(11-08-2021, 02:12 AM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2021, 10:31 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I've been to Switzerland a few times, and I always marvel at their public transportation system. Trains, trams, buses, boats... they are all interconnected, and run like clockwork. Everything is on time, everything is clean, it's all synced up and it all works perfectly.
Funny, I rode a bus just a month or two ago. It was on time, but of course, 30 minutes slower than an equilvelent car, dirty as heck, and a particularly pugnant/dirty hobo was boarding on it halfway to my stop. Yeah I dont think I want better public transport.
European mas transit is phenomenal. At least in Germany and the part of France and Austria I went to. Spent most of my time on German trains and busses because I lived there and you could set your watch to their schedule. Clean, punctual, fast. Coming back to the States was a big letdown on several levels when it came to stuff like that and the restaurant experience.
Yeah, I agree. I had a revelation about public transit while in Europe. It definitely can work. However, America faces different hurdles. I think we could improve upon it with some effort, though.
A lot of it has to do with what has already been mentioned. Too many people in rural areas. My county doesn't even have a taxi service and will never have busses. Can you imagine mass transit outside of major cities in states like WY, MT, MN, KS?
Is the monorail in Jacksonville even operational? I think it may have been back in 2010 or so. How long has the city been trying to get anything going on that project? And the busses there were not reliable and in some areas was almost non-existent.
American city governments like to pass the buck on unpopular issues and mass transit is exactly that. Europe isn't perfect but they got their [BLEEP] together a long time ago and built their mass transit solid from the start. It's hard to play catch up when you're so far behind.
(11-08-2021, 10:47 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of it has to do with what has already been mentioned. Too many people in rural areas. My county doesn't even have a taxi service and will never have busses. Can you imagine mass transit outside of major cities in states like WY, MT, MN, KS?
Is the monorail in Jacksonville even operational? I think it may have been back in 2010 or so. How long has the city been trying to get anything going on that project? And the busses there were not reliable and in some areas was almost non-existent.
American city governments like to pass the buck on unpopular issues and mass transit is exactly that. Europe isn't perfect but they got their [BLEEP] together a long time ago and built their mass transit solid from the start. It's hard to play catch up when you're so far behind.
They built a new bus center at the prime Osborne center but I don't know if it added any riders to the monorail. I think I used it for jury duty once. The Jags shuttle used to also use until they expanded the bus service.
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(11-08-2021, 10:59 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2021, 10:47 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of it has to do with what has already been mentioned. Too many people in rural areas. My county doesn't even have a taxi service and will never have busses. Can you imagine mass transit outside of major cities in states like WY, MT, MN, KS?
Is the monorail in Jacksonville even operational? I think it may have been back in 2010 or so. How long has the city been trying to get anything going on that project? And the busses there were not reliable and in some areas was almost non-existent.
American city governments like to pass the buck on unpopular issues and mass transit is exactly that. Europe isn't perfect but they got their [BLEEP] together a long time ago and built their mass transit solid from the start. It's hard to play catch up when you're so far behind.
They built a new bus center at the prime Osborne center but I don't know if it added any riders to the monorail. I think I used it for jury duty once. The Jags shuttle used to also use until they expanded the bus service.
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Thanks!
The monorail could have been great, it just doesn't go anywhere.
(11-08-2021, 11:20 PM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]The monorail could have been great, it just doesn't go anywhere.
I heard it goes to Ogdenville..
One thing I should add is, no city will ever get European-quality public transit simply by buying trains, tracks, and buses. They also need to zone higher density housing and smaller retail parking lots near most of the stops. Then builders actually have to come in and build those houses, offices, and shops as zoned. This happened in NY. It's happening in Miami. It didn't happen in LA or SF.
The extra federal spending will help some people get on buses, sure, but in terms of changing the alignment of our transportation, those are all local decisions, and they're not easy ones.
(11-10-2021, 10:00 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]One thing I should add is, no city will ever get European-quality public transit simply by buying trains, tracks, and buses. They also need to zone higher density housing and smaller retail parking lots near most of the stops. Then builders actually have to come in and build those houses, offices, and shops as zoned. This happened in NY. It's happening in Miami. It didn't happen in LA or SF.
The extra federal spending will help some people get on buses, sure, but in terms of changing the alignment of our transportation, those are all local decisions, and they're not easy ones.
So you have to force people to live on top of each other to make it work. Somehow I think that will always fail in the vast majority of our Country.
(11-10-2021, 10:40 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (11-10-2021, 10:00 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]One thing I should add is, no city will ever get European-quality public transit simply by buying trains, tracks, and buses. They also need to zone higher density housing and smaller retail parking lots near most of the stops. Then builders actually have to come in and build those houses, offices, and shops as zoned. This happened in NY. It's happening in Miami. It didn't happen in LA or SF.
The extra federal spending will help some people get on buses, sure, but in terms of changing the alignment of our transportation, those are all local decisions, and they're not easy ones.
So you have to force people to live on top of each other to make it work. Somehow I think that will always fail in the vast majority of our Country.
No, lower density housing can still be built. It's just that the zoning rules have to allow high density housing where the demand exists. You can usually build less than the zoning rules allow.
(11-10-2021, 10:54 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (11-10-2021, 10:40 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]So you have to force people to live on top of each other to make it work. Somehow I think that will always fail in the vast majority of our Country.
No, lower density housing can still be built. It's just that the zoning rules have to allow high density housing where the demand exists. You can usually build less than the zoning rules allow.
Like I said, force people to live on top of each other.
(11-10-2021, 10:59 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (11-10-2021, 10:54 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]No, lower density housing can still be built. It's just that the zoning rules have to allow high density housing where the demand exists. You can usually build less than the zoning rules allow.
Like I said, force people to live on top of each other.
There's no force involved. Just supply and demand working more freely.