Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(01-08-2022, 08:47 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2022, 08:38 AM)jagherd Wrote: [ -> ]Yup, seems like a sound way to further encourage upper/middle tier FAs to join the Jags.

I'd definitely pick the Jags if I was a player (clown show, losing sponsors, no end in sight with inept management, blowout losses, no national primetime exposure,,,,,,, etc).

Sign me up!

41 - 118 are already enough to deter players that want to win actual football games from coming here.

That won't stop a player from looking for his first major breakthrough contract though. Money always talks the loudest at the end of the day. 

If I made a couple million dollars in three years on one of those 3rd - 6th RD contracts or made a name for myself as an undrafted player or late bloomer I am licking my chops to come play here. For two reasons. 

1. They're going to more than likely overpay me in a tax free state. 
2. If I don't produce here on a contract that benefited me financially? Guess what? I can cite everything you just mentioned above as to why I couldn't live up to said contract. 

I can then sign a new deal elsewhere after jumping off the circus sideshow act and pocketing a decent amount of money before rounding out my career in a better city and environment.

Jags are going to have to draft well, cause that's where they're going to get players that aren't like Aaron Ross. 

Money talks, yes. But, it's not absolute always what talks the loudest to some people. 

If I'm a big player FA, the only ways I'm coming to Jax are:
- they grossly outbid another teams offer
- contract has to have mostly guaranteed money,, no heavily incentive laden contracts (terrible O-line that can't protect an unproven rookie QB who has thrown only 1-2 TD passes in half a season; no way I'm going to depend on incentives if I'm a WR)
- I have no other choice/offers from other teams.

Clown show wouldn't help my decision.

Just my opinion,, gotta agree to disagree

I will be at the game, although not in clown regalia. It almost feels like the end of something. I was at the very first game, hundreds of games after that, and I will be at this game Sunday. Maybe my last game. It feels like the franchise is dying.

my dad brought up a fair point about the whole clown out thing.  It could cause Khan to keep Balke in spite of fans,and even hire a HC he knows is a loser on purpose to keep team looking like a cirus,and losers.

I guess maybe the Clown Out could fall into the "any media exposure is good media exposure" category?

Clown Out might finally get the Jags some mention on prime national sports TV for once this season.

Idk man

(01-07-2022, 08:38 PM)Sibelius Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2022, 07:32 PM)B-SMOOTH Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/stat...98248?s=20

Good - when it starts costing money to the team, maybe Khan will listen.

https://sports.yahoo.com/jaguars-sponsor...13471.html

This could be capitalized on. The sponsor could change their jingle to “The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire…”

(01-08-2022, 09:10 AM)jagherd Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2022, 08:47 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]41 - 118 are already enough to deter players that want to win actual football games from coming here.

That won't stop a player from looking for his first major breakthrough contract though. Money always talks the loudest at the end of the day. 

If I made a couple million dollars in three years on one of those 3rd - 6th RD contracts or made a name for myself as an undrafted player or late bloomer I am licking my chops to come play here. For two reasons. 

1. They're going to more than likely overpay me in a tax free state. 
2. If I don't produce here on a contract that benefited me financially? Guess what? I can cite everything you just mentioned above as to why I couldn't live up to said contract. 

I can then sign a new deal elsewhere after jumping off the circus sideshow act and pocketing a decent amount of money before rounding out my career in a better city and environment.

Jags are going to have to draft well, cause that's where they're going to get players that aren't like Aaron Ross. 

Money talks, yes. But, it's not absolute always what talks the loudest to some people. 

If I'm a big player FA, the only ways I'm coming to Jax are:
- they grossly outbid another teams offer
- contract has to have mostly guaranteed money,, no heavily incentive laden contracts (terrible O-line that can't protect an unproven rookie QB who has thrown only 1-2 TD passes in half a season; no way I'm going to depend on incentives if I'm a WR)
- I have no other choice/offers from other teams.

Clown show wouldn't help my decision.

Just my opinion,, gotta agree to disagree

When do the Jaguars ever draft well though? They have had a total of 74 selections since 2013 (Khan officially bought the team towards the end of 2011, however, the 2012 draft was still under James Harris).

Out of those 73 selections. 11 of them were first round selections. 11 of them were second round selections. 10 of them were third round selections. 11 of them were fourth round selections. 

I won't bother looking at the 5th - 7th rounds. 

Players on the team from 2021's class: Won't bother factoring this in, too early. 
Players on the team from 2020's class: What, maybe 6 or 7 out of the 12 selections they had that year?
Players on the team from 2019's class: Allen, Taylor and recently Armstead. 
Players on the team from 2018's class: Cooke, Richardson, Bryan (probably gone soon), Chark (potentially gone soon)
Players on the team from 2017's class: Cam Robinson (probably gone soon) & Smoot
Players on the team from 2016's class: Myles Jack
Players on the team from 2015 and down: Just Brandon Linder (It's been six years of full football, so that's somewhat reasonable)

Show me where they've drafted well in the past. Show me where they drafted well, managed to exactly get it right, and yet, still [BLEEP] it up by letting those players get away for a plethora of reasons? 

Clown show has already been here my guy. This team has squandered over 10 years worth of selections. High quality selections at that. 29 selections overall within the top 75 over the last 10 years. 7 within the top five and 3 within the top ten. Name me one [BLEEP] cornerstone player they've landed out of those choices. Name me one [BLEEP] player that you can confidently say that he's either elite or will be here long enough to land a 2nd contract. 

You can't do it. My line of thinking is this. Maybe they should trade more often, gain more picks in later rounds where they tend to get better, since they can't land anybody worth a [BLEEP] with the higher quality choices anyway, add some mid to late 20 something's that have actually showed the ability to compete better than what's on this roster in the NFL in some of these deals. 

Because the draft? It ain't working!

Plot twist: The NFL has hired a couple hundred clowns to attend the game Sunday. Along with 30-40 Jaguar fans who will actually do it. They want this clown show as much as the fans do.

(01-08-2022, 09:40 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2022, 09:10 AM)jagherd Wrote: [ -> ]Jags are going to have to draft well, cause that's where they're going to get players that aren't like Aaron Ross. 

Money talks, yes. But, it's not absolute always what talks the loudest to some people. 

If I'm a big player FA, the only ways I'm coming to Jax are:
- they grossly outbid another teams offer
- contract has to have mostly guaranteed money,, no heavily incentive laden contracts (terrible O-line that can't protect an unproven rookie QB who has thrown only 1-2 TD passes in half a season; no way I'm going to depend on incentives if I'm a WR)
- I have no other choice/offers from other teams.

Clown show wouldn't help my decision.

Just my opinion,, gotta agree to disagree

When do the Jaguars ever draft well though? 

Show me where they've drafted well in the past. Show me where they drafted well, managed to exactly get it right, and yet,
Because the draft? It ain't working!

I'm totally with you on this my man. My comment about the Jags "are going to have to draft well" was more stating that "the Jags are going to have to START drafting well".

(01-08-2022, 09:40 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2022, 09:10 AM)jagherd Wrote: [ -> ]Jags are going to have to draft well, cause that's where they're going to get players that aren't like Aaron Ross. 

Money talks, yes. But, it's not absolute always what talks the loudest to some people. 

If I'm a big player FA, the only ways I'm coming to Jax are:
- they grossly outbid another teams offer
- contract has to have mostly guaranteed money,, no heavily incentive laden contracts (terrible O-line that can't protect an unproven rookie QB who has thrown only 1-2 TD passes in half a season; no way I'm going to depend on incentives if I'm a WR)
- I have no other choice/offers from other teams.

Clown show wouldn't help my decision.

Just my opinion,, gotta agree to disagree

When do the Jaguars ever draft well though? They have had a total of 74 selections since 2013 (Khan officially bought the team towards the end of 2011, however, the 2012 draft was still under James Harris).

Out of those 73 selections. 11 of them were first round selections. 11 of them were second round selections. 10 of them were third round selections. 11 of them were fourth round selections. 

I won't bother looking at the 5th - 7th rounds. 

Players on the team from 2021's class: Won't bother factoring this in, too early. 
Players on the team from 2020's class: What, maybe 6 or 7 out of the 12 selections they had that year?
Players on the team from 2019's class: Allen, Taylor and recently Armstead. 
Players on the team from 2018's class: Cooke, Richardson, Bryan (probably gone soon), Chark (potentially gone soon)
Players on the team from 2017's class: Cam Robinson (probably gone soon) & Smoot
Players on the team from 2016's class: Myles Jack
Players on the team from 2015 and down: Just Brandon Linder (It's been six years of full football, so that's somewhat reasonable)

Show me where they've drafted well in the past. Show me where they drafted well, managed to exactly get it right, and yet, still [BLEEP] it up by letting those players get away for a plethora of reasons? 

Clown show has already been here my guy. This team has squandered over 10 years worth of selections. High quality selections at that. 29 selections overall within the top 75 over the last 10 years. 7 within the top five and 3 within the top ten. Name me one [BLEEP] cornerstone player they've landed out of those choices. Name me one [BLEEP] player that you can confidently say that he's either elite or will be here long enough to land a 2nd contract. 

You can't do it. My line of thinking is this. Maybe they should trade more often, gain more picks in later rounds where they tend to get better, since they can't land anybody worth a [BLEEP] with the higher quality choices anyway, add some mid to late 20 something's that have actually showed the ability to compete better than what's on this roster in the NFL in some of these deals. 

Because the draft? It ain't working!

I understand what you are saying, and it's all true, but Gene Smith and Dave Caldwell are no longer here, so there's no point in saying the Jaguars can't draft decently in the first round, unless you think there is something inherent about this franchise that goes beyond the people who did the drafting in the past, who are no longer here.

(01-08-2022, 09:13 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I will be at the game, although not in clown regalia.  It almost feels like the end of something.  I was at the very first game, hundreds of games after that, and I will be at this game Sunday.  Maybe my last game.  It feels like the franchise is dying.

Lowest point in Jags history man.

If it’s Baalke and BOB, not sure how on earth I’ll get excited about next season.

(01-08-2022, 09:23 AM)jagherd Wrote: [ -> ]I guess maybe the Clown Out could fall into the "any media exposure is good media exposure" category?

Clown Out might finally get the Jags some mention on prime national sports TV for once this season.

Idk man

Lol possibly but I bet the video camera guys are gonna do their best to not get any clowns in their lenses, maybe zoom in on 'appropriate' looking fans for filler in-between plays

(01-08-2022, 09:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2022, 09:40 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]When do the Jaguars ever draft well though? They have had a total of 74 selections since 2013 (Khan officially bought the team towards the end of 2011, however, the 2012 draft was still under James Harris).

Out of those 73 selections. 11 of them were first round selections. 11 of them were second round selections. 10 of them were third round selections. 11 of them were fourth round selections. 

I won't bother looking at the 5th - 7th rounds. 

Players on the team from 2021's class: Won't bother factoring this in, too early. 
Players on the team from 2020's class: What, maybe 6 or 7 out of the 12 selections they had that year?
Players on the team from 2019's class: Allen, Taylor and recently Armstead. 
Players on the team from 2018's class: Cooke, Richardson, Bryan (probably gone soon), Chark (potentially gone soon)
Players on the team from 2017's class: Cam Robinson (probably gone soon) & Smoot
Players on the team from 2016's class: Myles Jack
Players on the team from 2015 and down: Just Brandon Linder (It's been six years of full football, so that's somewhat reasonable)

Show me where they've drafted well in the past. Show me where they drafted well, managed to exactly get it right, and yet, still [BLEEP] it up by letting those players get away for a plethora of reasons? 

Clown show has already been here my guy. This team has squandered over 10 years worth of selections. High quality selections at that. 29 selections overall within the top 75 over the last 10 years. 7 within the top five and 3 within the top ten. Name me one [BLEEP] cornerstone player they've landed out of those choices. Name me one [BLEEP] player that you can confidently say that he's either elite or will be here long enough to land a 2nd contract. 

You can't do it. My line of thinking is this. Maybe they should trade more often, gain more picks in later rounds where they tend to get better, since they can't land anybody worth a [BLEEP] with the higher quality choices anyway, add some mid to late 20 something's that have actually showed the ability to compete better than what's on this roster in the NFL in some of these deals. 

Because the draft? It ain't working!

I understand what you are saying, and it's all true, but Gene Smith and Dave Caldwell are no longer here, so there's no point in saying the Jaguars can't draft decently in the first round, unless you think there is something inherent about this franchise that goes beyond the people making the decisions.

Yes. Khan. He's incapable of making the right decisions to right this ship and turn this [BLEEP] around as an owner. Baalke was here in 2020 when those selections were made as well. He was here last year with Meyer when they drafted the no brainer selection in Lawrence. The Etienne selection was and still is a head scratcher. Campbell looks like he turned it around. Little and Cisco are just now getting some playing time. 

Jury is still out. I didn't highlight those selections for that reason. I can only base my conclusion on Baalke's entire body of work and checkered past in San Francisco. He's not, at least on paper, shown that he's good at making the best decisions for a franchise. Same with O'Brien. 

The only thing that can be concluded at the end of the day, is that, Khan has this team at a 41 - 118 (soon to be 119) record since he bought the team officially on December 11th, 2011. (So much for that universal luck of 1111 I guess if you're into that sort of thing). 

If he cleans house, a new GM is put into motion and place. We can start the process of [BLEEP] and complaining or singing his praises if he gets the right man in the building (or woman, hell, who knows, it's 2022 and women are everywhere now in the NFL).

I'm trying to remember if a franchise has ever moved because of lack of fan support, when that lack of support is so obviously caused by owner incompetence.

(01-08-2022, 09:53 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I'm trying to remember if a franchise has ever moved because of lack of fan support, when that lack of support is so obviously caused by owner incompetence.

Great question. I don't know off the top of my head. I am only 33. I don't remember why the Browns bolted for Baltimore. I vaguely remember the Oilers moving out of Houston. Other than the Rams moving because of Kronke which I think was over the stadium issues. I don't recall. 

Interesting article though from 2019. According to this there's very little fan support for the WFT, and, a lot of Cincinnati and Detroit teams were listed in it. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/201.../39667999/

(01-08-2022, 10:03 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2022, 09:53 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I'm trying to remember if a franchise has ever moved because of lack of fan support, when that lack of support is so obviously caused by owner incompetence.

Great question. I don't know off the top of my head. I am only 33. I don't remember why the Browns bolted for Baltimore. I vaguely remember the Oilers moving out of Houston. Other than the Rams moving because of Kronke which I think was over the stadium issues. I don't recall. 

Interesting article though from 2019. According to this there's very little fan support for the WFT, and, a lot of Cincinnati and Detroit teams were listed in it. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/201.../39667999/

The Browns and the Oilers both left over stadium issues.

The Browns had to play in Cleveland Municipal Stadium, which was a baseball stadium, and the Oilers were in the Astrodome.

(01-08-2022, 10:22 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2022, 10:03 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Great question. I don't know off the top of my head. I am only 33. I don't remember why the Browns bolted for Baltimore. I vaguely remember the Oilers moving out of Houston. Other than the Rams moving because of Kronke which I think was over the stadium issues. I don't recall. 

Interesting article though from 2019. According to this there's very little fan support for the WFT, and, a lot of Cincinnati and Detroit teams were listed in it. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/201.../39667999/

The Browns and the Oilers both left over stadium issues.

The Browns had to play in Cleveland Municipal Stadium, which was a baseball stadium, and the Oilers were in the Astrodome.

Over/Under on Khan driving that same narrative here in a few years?

(01-08-2022, 10:30 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2022, 10:22 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]The Browns and the Oilers both left over stadium issues.

The Browns had to play in Cleveland Municipal Stadium, which was a baseball stadium, and the Oilers were in the Astrodome.

Over/Under on Khan driving that same narrative here in a few years?

I think we might be in a unique situation, where a franchise owner kills the fan support for his own team, and that is used as justification for moving to another city.  

Just like the movie, only maybe not intentional.  One interesting question is, if he kills fan support will that also kill political support for the stadium renovations?  

I think the other owners would approve the move, because they want to move the team regardless of the fan support in Jacksonville.

(01-08-2022, 10:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2022, 10:30 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Over/Under on Khan driving that same narrative here in a few years?

I think we might be in a unique situation, where a franchise owner kills the fan support for his own team, and that is used as justification for moving to another city.  

Just like the movie, only maybe not intentional.  One interesting question is, if he kills fan support will that also kill political support for the stadium renovations?  

I think the other owners would approve the move, because they want to move the team regardless of the fan support in Jacksonville.

If so, it's a round about way to do it. What's the point in hiding his intentions? All he has to do is say he's moving when the lease is up and that would destroy any remaining fan support.

(01-08-2022, 10:38 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2022, 10:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think we might be in a unique situation, where a franchise owner kills the fan support for his own team, and that is used as justification for moving to another city.  

Just like the movie, only maybe not intentional.  One interesting question is, if he kills fan support will that also kill political support for the stadium renovations?  

I think the other owners would approve the move, because they want to move the team regardless of the fan support in Jacksonville.

If so, it's a round about way to do it. What's the point in hiding his intentions? All he has to do is say he's moving when the lease is up and that would destroy any remaining fan support.

That is true.  But he does have to get the approval of the other owners, and it'll be a lot easier if he drives off the fans first.  

I'm trying to figure out why he doesn't seem to care about wins and losses and fan support.  I can see two possibilities: 1) He's just not that interested.  or 2) He's doing it on purpose.

(01-08-2022, 10:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2022, 10:30 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Over/Under on Khan driving that same narrative here in a few years?

I think we might be in a unique situation, where a franchise owner kills the fan support for his own team, and that is used as justification for moving to another city.  

Just like the movie, only maybe not intentional.  One interesting question is, if he kills fan support will that also kill political support for the stadium renovations?  

I think the other owners would approve the move, because they want to move the team regardless of the fan support in Jacksonville.

That's how it feels. However, there's plans and projects he's put into place that makes me feel like he's truly trying to keep his roots here. Jacksonville continues to grow. St. John's county is absolutely growing. Hoping enough growth would be able to keep enough people showing up.

Despite the losing records this team still manages to finish in good value rankings and attendance rankings. In August of 2020, it was reported the team was up 4% in share of national revenue. Not sure how it will all play out. Between tomorrow and Monday though it sure as hell feels like the sense of urgency has been amplified.