(03-29-2022, 10:35 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2022, 09:05 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]when you have 12 picks, you have the luxury of not needing to be a salesman to secure the RB you like or want. I don't feel like we have to be urgent in spending a mid-range pick on a guy or anything, but we have a multitude of late picks, doesn't hurt to use one of them if there's a guy who particularly catches the team's eye.
/types post
//deletes post
not gonna bother with this carcass, it don't even look like a horse no more.
Hahahaha
I thought the same thing. It's not worth the argument.
How this argument goes every time through the lens of a Will Ferrell comedy:
Edith : What about my [BAP] dreams?
Dewey Cox: Edith, I told you I can't build you a candy house! It will fall apart, the sun will melt the candy, it won't work!
Edith: Not if it doesn't rain.
Try to maneuver and get:
Now (Needs):
Edge
IOL
ILB
RB (6/7 round, injury to top options)
K (6/7 round)
Soon:
TE (good for this year, bare next year)
Safety (replacement for Jenkins at some point)
Eventually/ Upgrade (if an excellent prospect is too good to pass up)
OT (assume Cam gets an extension)
WR (we have enough the next 2 seasons, but lack an upper teir option)
CB (depth/ cost savings in the future)
(03-29-2022, 09:05 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (03-28-2022, 08:24 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I still say RB should not be addressed in the draft. There are over 20 RB's in this draft class that I really like and there's no way all of them are gonna get drafted. There will be some very, very talented guys who are UDFA's. I expect guys like Breece Hall, Kenneth Walker, Isaiah Spiller, James Cook, Tyler Allgeier, Kyren Williams, Pierre Strong, Rachaad White, Abram Smith, Jerome Ford, Hassan Haskins, Zamir White, Brian Robinson, Kennedy Brooks and Dameon Pierce to get drafted, but I also really like Ty Chandler, Tyler Goodson, Sincere McCormick, Brian Kobach, B.J. Baylor, Jashaun Corbin, Tyrion Davis-Price, Mataeo Durant and C.J. Verdell. I just don't see much sense in drafting a RB when there will be so much talent at the position that goes undrafted.
when you have 12 picks, you have the luxury of not needing to be a salesman to secure the RB you like or want. I don't feel like we have to be urgent in spending a mid-range pick on a guy or anything, but we have a multitude of late picks, doesn't hurt to use one of them if there's a guy who particularly catches the team's eye.
(03-29-2022, 07:31 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]We don't need to be worring about needs right now or need in 2023, that's your typical needs drafting. FA was for need. Now just take the player who you feel will be the best and at the top of your board and the rest will play itself out.
/types post
//deletes post
not gonna bother with this carcass, it don't even look like a horse no more.
Here's a pretty good podcast on it, check it out
https://www.stitcher.com/show/locked-on-...-201717729
(03-29-2022, 09:37 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2022, 09:05 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]when you have 12 picks, you have the luxury of not needing to be a salesman to secure the RB you like or want. I don't feel like we have to be urgent in spending a mid-range pick on a guy or anything, but we have a multitude of late picks, doesn't hurt to use one of them if there's a guy who particularly catches the team's eye.
With me, it's more about using those picks wisely, no matter how many we have. Why use a draft pick on a RB that will likely be designated to 3rd string once Etienne and Robinson are healthy? Especially when I see many RB's who will be UDFA's and are just as good, if not better than the guys who may be selected after the 4th round. We have a ton of other areas on this team that could be addressed like O-Line, WR, TE, Safety, ILB, edge rusher and even special teams and depth at CB, that may require us to use actual draft picks to secure the best players. I just don't see RB as one of those areas. I'd designate at least 2 picks, maybe 3 to addressing WR and I want one of the better TE's and Centers from this class as well. When you add in that we will be taking an edge rusher at #1, that's 4 early picks already gone. Even though we have 12 picks, we have so many areas that we could improve, we don't have the luxury of selecting certain positions we already are good at. Even if the starters at that position are both coming off season ending injuries. That's just my opinion.
So is it better to darft a WR and cut/PS them and miss out on the RB you feel is the best fit among the undrafted? If we take 3 WR, there's a very good chance two end up waived before the season starts.
Do you honestly consider RB to be a position we are good at? I might agree with "could be good at", but that conditional depends a whole lot on both RBs' recovery and ability to avoid reinjury. I have a lot more confidence in an RB drafted late sticking on this roster than I do any of the WR 'jars on the shelf'.
I guess we agree, it's about using the picks wisely. I just see more wisdom addressing the uncertainty we presently have at RB than at flooding the market with players at a position we've already invested a ton in, whether you like the players there or not.
(03-29-2022, 04:00 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2022, 09:37 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]With me, it's more about using those picks wisely, no matter how many we have. Why use a draft pick on a RB that will likely be designated to 3rd string once Etienne and Robinson are healthy? Especially when I see many RB's who will be UDFA's and are just as good, if not better than the guys who may be selected after the 4th round. We have a ton of other areas on this team that could be addressed like O-Line, WR, TE, Safety, ILB, edge rusher and even special teams and depth at CB, that may require us to use actual draft picks to secure the best players. I just don't see RB as one of those areas. I'd designate at least 2 picks, maybe 3 to addressing WR and I want one of the better TE's and Centers from this class as well. When you add in that we will be taking an edge rusher at #1, that's 4 early picks already gone. Even though we have 12 picks, we have so many areas that we could improve, we don't have the luxury of selecting certain positions we already are good at. Even if the starters at that position are both coming off season ending injuries. That's just my opinion.
So is it better to darft a WR and cut/PS them and miss out on the RB you feel is the best fit among the undrafted? If we take 3 WR, there's a very good chance two end up waived before the season starts.
Do you honestly consider RB to be a position we are good at? I might agree with "could be good at", but that conditional depends a whole lot on both RBs' recovery and ability to avoid reinjury. I have a lot more confidence in an RB drafted late sticking on this roster than I do any of the WR 'jars on the shelf'.
I guess we agree, it's about using the picks wisely. I just see more wisdom addressing the uncertainty we presently have at RB than at flooding the market with players at a position we've already invested a ton in, whether you like the players there or not.
Just noticed we still have Roq Armstead for one more year. That may prove helpful.
I'm still all in on grabbing a RB between picks 157 and 198. We have 4 picks in that range as of now.
There are lots of prospect lists out there, but here are the backs from one list who are projected to fall in that range:
![[Image: RBs5th6tha7e9f359c9ca9c58.png]](https://pichost.net/i/2022/03/29/RBs5th6tha7e9f359c9ca9c58.png)
(03-29-2022, 04:00 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2022, 09:37 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]With me, it's more about using those picks wisely, no matter how many we have. Why use a draft pick on a RB that will likely be designated to 3rd string once Etienne and Robinson are healthy? Especially when I see many RB's who will be UDFA's and are just as good, if not better than the guys who may be selected after the 4th round. We have a ton of other areas on this team that could be addressed like O-Line, WR, TE, Safety, ILB, edge rusher and even special teams and depth at CB, that may require us to use actual draft picks to secure the best players. I just don't see RB as one of those areas. I'd designate at least 2 picks, maybe 3 to addressing WR and I want one of the better TE's and Centers from this class as well. When you add in that we will be taking an edge rusher at #1, that's 4 early picks already gone. Even though we have 12 picks, we have so many areas that we could improve, we don't have the luxury of selecting certain positions we already are good at. Even if the starters at that position are both coming off season ending injuries. That's just my opinion.
So is it better to darft a WR and cut/PS them and miss out on the RB you feel is the best fit among the undrafted? If we take 3 WR, there's a very good chance two end up waived before the season starts.
Do you honestly consider RB to be a position we are good at? I might agree with "could be good at", but that conditional depends a whole lot on both RBs' recovery and ability to avoid reinjury. I have a lot more confidence in an RB drafted late sticking on this roster than I do any of the WR 'jars on the shelf'.
I guess we agree, it's about using the picks wisely. I just see more wisdom addressing the uncertainty we presently have at RB than at flooding the market with players at a position we've already invested a ton in, whether you like the players there or not.
I don't think so. I think our WR unit as it stands now, is putrid. The only guys I think are a lock to make the roster are Kirk and Agnew.
I never said we are good at RB. I like James Robinson a lot when he is healthy and we spent a first round pick on Etienne, so like it or not, those guys are our starters. I just don't see spending a pick on a RB when that RB is gonna be relegated to 3rd string by probably the 6th game of the season, if not sooner when Robinson and Etienne are healthy. I believe there are very good late round WR's in this draft that could easily beat out below average WR's like Marvin Jones, Shenault, Zay Jones and Treadwell for a roster spot.
(03-29-2022, 04:24 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2022, 04:00 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]So is it better to darft a WR and cut/PS them and miss out on the RB you feel is the best fit among the undrafted? If we take 3 WR, there's a very good chance two end up waived before the season starts.
Do you honestly consider RB to be a position we are good at? I might agree with "could be good at", but that conditional depends a whole lot on both RBs' recovery and ability to avoid reinjury. I have a lot more confidence in an RB drafted late sticking on this roster than I do any of the WR 'jars on the shelf'.
I guess we agree, it's about using the picks wisely. I just see more wisdom addressing the uncertainty we presently have at RB than at flooding the market with players at a position we've already invested a ton in, whether you like the players there or not.
Just noticed we still have Roq Armstead for one more year. That may prove helpful.
I'm still all in on grabbing a RB between picks 157 and 198. We have 4 picks in that range as of now.
There are lots of prospect lists out there, but here are the backs from one list who are projected to fall in that range:
Pierre Strong is my day 3 RB of choice, is he ranked higher than those guys? I admit I have no feel on RB ranks since I care so little about drafting RBs.
If Brian Robinson is there in the 4th it would be a steal
(03-29-2022, 04:49 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2022, 04:24 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Just noticed we still have Roq Armstead for one more year. That may prove helpful.
I'm still all in on grabbing a RB between picks 157 and 198. We have 4 picks in that range as of now.
There are lots of prospect lists out there, but here are the backs from one list who are projected to fall in that range:
Pierre Strong is my day 3 RB of choice, is he ranked higher than those guys? I admit I have no feel on RB ranks since I care so little about drafting RBs.
He's in UDFA land on that list, but I've seen him as a 4th rounder on other lists.
Seems like a guy worthy of a 5th or 6th rd gamble to me if he's there.
Yeah I'm not taking him at 106 that's a valuable pick, but anything after that I can get behing taking Strong.
(03-29-2022, 07:31 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]We don't need to be worring about needs right now or need in 2023, that's your typical needs drafting. FA was for need. Now just take the player who you feel will be the best and at the top of your board and the rest will play itself out.
You started a thread, this thread in fact, soliciting opinions regarding needs.
I'm beginning to question the sincerity of your original inquiry into our top 5 needs.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/lxfXcVFaE42By/giphy.gif)
Did you really just come here to talk about BAP and unicorns?
I wouldn't take any RBs until Round 6. As OLine wrote, the #3 guy is going to be stuck behind ETN and JRob this year. Rock Armstead is good depth.
(03-29-2022, 05:48 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't take any RBs until Round 6. As OLine wrote, the #3 guy is going to be stuck behind ETN and JRob this year. Rock Armstead is good depth.
Ryquell "Rock" Armstead was cut last year, presumably after negative effects of coming back from Covid. When he was later re-signed, I thought he played well, averaging 5.3 ypc on 15 carries in the last NE and Indy games. He appeared to have fully recovered from the Covid effects. With Dare Ogunbowale gone now, the Jags could still use another backup RB besides Armstead.
I am not much for Cottrell and Sargent, the other RBs on the roster. With both Robinson and ETN coming back from significant, often career ending, injuries, I am not confident or betting on that both come back 100%. I am an advocate of Baalke taking a RB later in the draft, or a cheap 1 year free agent. Surprisingly, there are still quite a few decent RBs available in free agency, that might go for a prove it 1 year deal.
The problem with "top 5 needs" is that there are different type of needs. Sometimes you need a starter. Sometimes you need depth. Sometimes both. You also have positional value. I prefer to look at it in terms of where in the draft would I go with certain positions assuming the draft falls out similar to how we think it will. I group them into categories.
Group #1 - The first overall pick. Since we know for a fact who will be there, this pick is different than any other. I would go:
Edge (Hutchinson) - We need a good pass rush to counter the excellent young passers in the AFC. We have a huge need. Josh Allen isn't enough. You need two. Hutchinson also happens to be BAP.
Group #2 - Rounds 2 through 4. We have 4 picks. I would take in whatever order that makes sense:
Wide Receiver - We need a speed receiver to open things up.
Inside Linebacker - We lost our two starters and signed one in free agency. That's a net loss of one starter. Maybe Quarterman steps it up or Moses fully recovers, but it feels like we may be starting a backup caliber player here if we do nothing.
Center - We lost Linder to retirement. Although I think Shatley is a good backup, I do see him as a backup. He's also actually older than Linder who just retired. We need a starting center for the future. Even if the rookie can't win the job immediately, we can use him as depth until he's ready.
Tight End - Our two top tight ends have only one year left on their contracts. This is also a position where you need more than one and a position where complimentary skills can be beneficial. Tight ends often take time to develop, so better to get one this year instead of next.
Group #3 - Rounds 5 through 7. We have 7 picks with one in the mid 5th, four in the 6th and two in the 7th. For these, I look at the 53 man roster and ask "what position is most likely to win a 53 man roster spot?" If the draft pick doesn't make the team, they are worthless to us. I see the following:
Offensive Guard - I would put this in the above group, but we only have so many picks. Guards sometimes fall in the draft. It's not incomprehensible that we could find a guard to beat out Bartch as the starter. If not, we still need the depth. This is basically the Cann replacement.
Running Backs (2) - These are replacements for Hyde and Ogunbowale.
Defensive Line - This is basically the Adam Gotsis replacement who is currently unsigned.
Kicker - A kicker would have a good chance of beating out Wright.
Cornerback (2) - Although not a lock, I think late round cornerbacks would provide competition and could potentially beat out existing players for a roster spot. I think Herndon and Claybrooks suck. I know they also signed Xavier Crawford. Although I'm not too familiar with him, he doesn't sound too impressive. I'd let the five compete for the final two spots and think the two drafts picks would have a decent shot of making the team.
(03-29-2022, 04:00 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2022, 09:37 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]With me, it's more about using those picks wisely, no matter how many we have. Why use a draft pick on a RB that will likely be designated to 3rd string once Etienne and Robinson are healthy? Especially when I see many RB's who will be UDFA's and are just as good, if not better than the guys who may be selected after the 4th round. We have a ton of other areas on this team that could be addressed like O-Line, WR, TE, Safety, ILB, edge rusher and even special teams and depth at CB, that may require us to use actual draft picks to secure the best players. I just don't see RB as one of those areas. I'd designate at least 2 picks, maybe 3 to addressing WR and I want one of the better TE's and Centers from this class as well. When you add in that we will be taking an edge rusher at #1, that's 4 early picks already gone. Even though we have 12 picks, we have so many areas that we could improve, we don't have the luxury of selecting certain positions we already are good at. Even if the starters at that position are both coming off season ending injuries. That's just my opinion.
So is it better to darft a WR and cut/PS them and miss out on the RB you feel is the best fit among the undrafted? If we take 3 WR, there's a very good chance two end up waived before the season starts.
Do you honestly consider RB to be a position we are good at? I might agree with "could be good at", but that conditional depends a whole lot on both RBs' recovery and ability to avoid reinjury. I have a lot more confidence in an RB drafted late sticking on this roster than I do any of the WR 'jars on the shelf'.
I guess we agree, it's about using the picks wisely. I just see more wisdom addressing the uncertainty we presently have at RB than at flooding the market with players at a position we've already invested a ton in, whether you like the players there or not.
I think along these lines. It's better to draft a running back who makes the team versus a wide receiver who gets cut. Even if there are a bunch of "good" running backs, I find it hard to believe that our scouts don't like some slightly better than the others. That upgrades our team. Taking a guy who is cut does not. Forget about drafting players for the practice squad. In order to make the practice squad, the Jaguars have to cut the player. All 31 other teams then have the option of taking the player for their team and leave the Jaguars with nothing.
In regards to wide receiver, NFL teams usually keep six. Kirk and Z. Jones aren't getting cut with them receiving $37 million and $14 million in guaranteed money. Agnew makes the team for special teams. I support taking one wide receiver early. That leaves Marvin Jones Jr. and Shenault as the final spots we would be expecting those two late round wide receivers to beat out. No thanks. Let's take players that make the team.
(03-29-2022, 04:24 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2022, 04:00 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]So is it better to darft a WR and cut/PS them and miss out on the RB you feel is the best fit among the undrafted? If we take 3 WR, there's a very good chance two end up waived before the season starts.
Do you honestly consider RB to be a position we are good at? I might agree with "could be good at", but that conditional depends a whole lot on both RBs' recovery and ability to avoid reinjury. I have a lot more confidence in an RB drafted late sticking on this roster than I do any of the WR 'jars on the shelf'.
I guess we agree, it's about using the picks wisely. I just see more wisdom addressing the uncertainty we presently have at RB than at flooding the market with players at a position we've already invested a ton in, whether you like the players there or not.
Just noticed we still have Roq Armstead for one more year. That may prove helpful.
I'm still all in on grabbing a RB between picks 157 and 198. We have 4 picks in that range as of now.
There are lots of prospect lists out there, but here are the backs from one list who are projected to fall in that range:
Yeah, probably wise not to bank on the guy averaging 94 yards a season.
(03-29-2022, 04:36 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2022, 04:00 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]So is it better to darft a WR and cut/PS them and miss out on the RB you feel is the best fit among the undrafted? If we take 3 WR, there's a very good chance two end up waived before the season starts.
Do you honestly consider RB to be a position we are good at? I might agree with "could be good at", but that conditional depends a whole lot on both RBs' recovery and ability to avoid reinjury. I have a lot more confidence in an RB drafted late sticking on this roster than I do any of the WR 'jars on the shelf'.
I guess we agree, it's about using the picks wisely. I just see more wisdom addressing the uncertainty we presently have at RB than at flooding the market with players at a position we've already invested a ton in, whether you like the players there or not.
I don't think so. I think our WR unit as it stands now, is putrid. The only guys I think are a lock to make the roster are Kirk and Agnew.
I never said we are good at RB. I like James Robinson a lot when he is healthy and we spent a first round pick on Etienne, so like it or not, those guys are our starters. I just don't see spending a pick on a RB when that RB is gonna be relegated to 3rd string by probably the 6th game of the season, if not sooner when Robinson and Etienne are healthy. I believe there are very good late round WR's in this draft that could easily beat out below average WR's like Marvin Jones, Shenault, Zay Jones and Treadwell for a roster spot.
1) we know, you've sprayed this musk on every thread related to FA and depth.
2) your argument against darfting an RB:
Quote:we don't have the luxury of selecting certain positions we already are good at.
We'll wait and see how the draft unfolds, but I have a grave suspicion that you are going to be very unhappy. At this point, though, I don't even know if that outcome is dependent on who we pick.
(03-30-2022, 07:51 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2022, 04:36 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think so. I think our WR unit as it stands now, is putrid. The only guys I think are a lock to make the roster are Kirk and Agnew.
I never said we are good at RB. I like James Robinson a lot when he is healthy and we spent a first round pick on Etienne, so like it or not, those guys are our starters. I just don't see spending a pick on a RB when that RB is gonna be relegated to 3rd string by probably the 6th game of the season, if not sooner when Robinson and Etienne are healthy. I believe there are very good late round WR's in this draft that could easily beat out below average WR's like Marvin Jones, Shenault, Zay Jones and Treadwell for a roster spot.
1) we know, you've sprayed this musk on every thread related to FA and depth.
2) your argument against darfting an RB:
Quote:we don't have the luxury of selecting certain positions we already are good at.
We'll wait and see how the draft unfolds, but I have a grave suspicion that you are going to be very unhappy. At this point, though, I don't even know if that outcome is dependent on who we pick.
We have a better chance at winning the lottery and being bitten by a shark on the same day than seeing this draft pan out in such a way that OLMatters will be pleased.
I'm (mostly) kidding.
(03-30-2022, 08:12 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2022, 07:51 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]1) we know, you've sprayed this musk on every thread related to FA and depth.
2) your argument against darfting an RB:
We'll wait and see how the draft unfolds, but I have a grave suspicion that you are going to be very unhappy. At this point, though, I don't even know if that outcome is dependent on who we pick.
We have a better chance at winning the lottery and being bitten by a shark on the same day than seeing this draft pan out in such a way that OLMatters will be pleased.
I'm (mostly) kidding.
I really liked our 2018 draft, so it is possible for me to be happy about the results.
(03-30-2022, 09:14 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2022, 08:12 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]We have a better chance at winning the lottery and being bitten by a shark on the same day than seeing this draft pan out in such a way that OLMatters will be pleased.
I'm (mostly) kidding.
I really liked our 2018 draft, so it is possible for me to be happy about the results.
I hope you like this one too, bud.