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(05-03-2022, 07:50 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]As a pro-life libertarian I'll say this, it is now in the pro-life supporters to prove it going forward. Yes I want a ban on any abortion after the first trimester and that means I'm also willing to support expanding birth control, welfare, and education cost at my state level. We can't just be pro birth I'm pro life so if I'm going to support abandoning abortions in my state I have to be more open to helping those that need in my state.

At the state level I'd support free birth control, I'm willing to expand welfare and I'm also open to paying more for schools. That's how important this issue is to me.

My wife and I have offered to take in 3 kids in need this year in addition to our 4, so far their home situation hasn't reached the point they need to live with us full time but if comes to it we've told all three households we will do it. We have to fill the gap for these kids this be is our chance to not only save lives but also change lives, these kids deserve it we must demand it

I appreciate you and your family being willing to do this. I wish more would. 

I am pro-choice because: I believe the government has no business telling a woman one way or another what to do in this situation anyway but especially in medically necessary situations and in the case of rape or incest. I absolutely do not believe it should be used as birth control.

I'm curious. Are conservatives not in favor of low cost or free BC being accessible to women? That seems counterintuitive to being pro-life unless they believe life starts at conception which I know some do. But to me it makes absolutely no sense to be pro-life but restrict access to BC which could possibly slow the rate of abortions. They can't have it both ways. Not everyone wants to be a parent. Telling people to "not have sex then" isn't the answer. Contraceptives don't work 100% of the time. 

As a woman who never wanted kids and has never raised them I would be 100% against someone forcing me to keep a child. Adoption is an option and is the way I would have gone but not everyone sees it as option. Most black and brown babies do not get adopted so those women don't even see it as a viable option so it's keep a child they don't want or are unprepared for, or turn it over to the foster care system that does not favor those babies either.

I wish people would just make responsible choices so something like this isn't even an issue but that's not the world we live in.
Interesting stats from the CDC regarding who gets abortions. 

As for the patients who are getting abortions, the most recent CDC data collected shows women with family incomes less than 100% the federal poverty level accounted for almost half of all abortion patients in 2014.

And in 2019, women in their 20s accounted for more than half of abortions. Black women had the highest rate; white women had the lowest.

"The majority of abortions are affecting Black and Hispanic mothers and young women," said Dima Qato of USC's Shaeffer Center for Health Policy & Economics. Qato studies health disparities including access to family planning and reproductive health.



The CDC snapshot also reveals that 85% were unmarried and 14% were married. Sixty-percent were already mothers.

"Mothers are perhaps not taking contraceptives when they need them. Therefore, they have an unintended pregnancy and would like to choose to have an abortion," Qato said.


Not surprising. I question the part about contraception not being available to underserved women. Don't county health departments provide these things? And most women who live at poverty level and below are on Medicaid and I know it's provided through Medicaid. I've known women who refuse to use it for various reasons but continue to have sex then wonder what they're going to do about their situation. They act like it's everyone else's fault. 

My literal thinking mind just doesn't get it.
(05-04-2022, 06:01 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting stats from the CDC regarding who gets abortions. 

As for the patients who are getting abortions, the most recent CDC data collected shows women with family incomes less than 100% the federal poverty level accounted for almost half of all abortion patients in 2014.

And in 2019, women in their 20s accounted for more than half of abortions. Black women had the highest rate; white women had the lowest.

"The majority of abortions are affecting Black and Hispanic mothers and young women," said Dima Qato of USC's Shaeffer Center for Health Policy & Economics. Qato studies health disparities including access to family planning and reproductive health.



The CDC snapshot also reveals that 85% were unmarried and 14% were married. Sixty-percent were already mothers.

"Mothers are perhaps not taking contraceptives when they need them. Therefore, they have an unintended pregnancy and would like to choose to have an abortion," Qato said.


Not surprising. I question the part about contraception not being available to underserved women. Don't county health departments provide these things? And most women who live at poverty level and below are on Medicaid and I know it's provided through Medicaid. I've known women who refuse to use it for various reasons but continue to have sex then wonder what they're going to do about their situation. They act like it's everyone else's fault. 

My literal thinking mind just doesn't get it.

In Florida, if you are over 18, and earn more than $18,075 annually, you do not get Medicaid.  Once you earn that 18,076th dollar, no Medicaid for you.  An IUD costs $500-$1,000 without insurance. Sometimes a charity like Planned Parenthood will step in and pay some of that cost, but they don't have infinite resources.  County health departments are more likely to provide the pill, which is less reliable and you have to remember to take it every day.

Even if you qualify for Medicaid, you have to have the spare time, intelligence, and inclination to apply.  It's like homework.  Some kids don't do it. 

And even if you get it, it doesn't mean you get an appointment with an OB/Gyn in any kind of timely fashion.

All that said, obviously, women who plan poorly are using abortion as birth control today. And women who are too rich for Medicaid but too poor for an IUD. It should not be used as birth control.  It should be used in extreme cases only.

Hopefully restricting abortion will go hand in hand with making birth control more accessible and with more women actually making appointments and getting it.

Personally, I think if a woman gets an elective abortion and she doesn't have kids yet, she should get an IUD automatically. She can get it taken out after a year if she says she wants kids at that point.  If a woman gets an elective abortion and she already has 2 or more kids, her tubes should be tied.  I don't think these are "undue burdens".  What woman would protest? You just said you don't want another kid, honey.  Let's make it happen. We need to reduce abortion as much as possible. A doctor's standard of care should be for reducing abortion.
(05-03-2022, 07:50 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]My wife and I have offered to take in 3 kids in need this year in addition to our 4, so far their home situation hasn't reached the point they need to live with us full time but if comes to it we've told all three households we will do it. We have to fill the gap for these kids this be is our chance to not only save lives but also change lives, these kids deserve it we must demand it

This totally sucks !!!  I'm trying to get to heaven but I'm simply counting on the majority of the population being total jerks throughout their lifetime.  You and your family are not helping my cause.
(05-04-2022, 06:57 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-03-2022, 07:50 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]My wife and I have offered to take in 3 kids in need this year in addition to our 4, so far their home situation hasn't reached the point they need to live with us full time but if comes to it we've told all three households we will do it. We have to fill the gap for these kids this be is our chance to not only save lives but also change lives, these kids deserve it we must demand it

This totally sucks !!!  I'm trying to get to heaven but I'm simply counting on the majority of the population being total jerks throughout their lifetime.  You and your family are not helping my cause.

You could always do what I did o pad your stats and adopt a couple special needs kids of your own.
(05-04-2022, 06:57 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-03-2022, 07:50 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]My wife and I have offered to take in 3 kids in need this year in addition to our 4, so far their home situation hasn't reached the point they need to live with us full time but if comes to it we've told all three households we will do it. We have to fill the gap for these kids this be is our chance to not only save lives but also change lives, these kids deserve it we must demand it

This totally sucks !!!  I'm trying to get to heaven but I'm simply counting on the majority of the population being total jerks throughout their lifetime.  You and your family are not helping my cause.

Oh don't worry I have many a sins to account for but I've always had a soft spot for children. In another life I'd have done something with kids as a career but someone has to fix cars when they break? It's a bonus when kids come into my shop I keep coloring books and stickers on hand, and I always pretend they drove the car in they get a kick out of it.
(05-03-2022, 07:50 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]As a pro-life libertarian I'll say this, it is now in the pro-life supporters to prove it going forward. Yes I want a ban on any abortion after the first trimester and that means I'm also willing to support expanding birth control, welfare, and education cost at my state level. We can't just be pro birth I'm pro life so if I'm going to support abandoning abortions in my state I have to be more open to helping those that need in my state.

At the state level I'd support free birth control, I'm willing to expand welfare and I'm also open to paying more for schools. That's how important this issue is to me.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why the left has basically run un-opposed in American Culture for the last 100 years.  Why is it, that even with victory on a major issue in our grasp we have to adopt the stance and talking points of the left?  

Of course, from a purely TACTICAL STANDPOINT if the only way to legislatively save the lives of millions of people meant a trade off on social services I would take the deal.  I'm a warrior, not a monster.  But i wouldn't a would never acquiesce to the basic talking point of Pro-Birth (The idea that you don't really "care about children" unless you are willing to increase the size scope and reach of government.)  

Has anyone ever stopped to consider the fact that the current abortion regime, currently taking over 65 million lives in these United States alone, happened AFTER the greatest expansion in the welfare state in our countries history?  The New Deal, The Great Society, The War on poverty, the Department of Education, Universal Public Schools, state subsidies for secondary education, nationalization of student loans, I can go on.  Yet in NY State more than half of all black pregnancies end in abortion (the #1 killer for black people in America.)  Yet with all this supposed Altruistic activity the left is openly threatening the safety and well being of sitting Justices of the United States Supreme Court to preserve the practice on behalf of their constituents.  

Why?  History tells us why as a Society becomes more collective, then the rights of the individual disappear.  In China, Cuba, Cambodia and the Soviet Union it was determined that the lives and property of the bugiouse were insignificant to achieve the goal of an ascending proletariat and socialist utopia.  Why then is it any Suprise that some would see the lives of unborn children as insignificant to the goal of Overthrowing the Patriarchy and closing the pay gap?  

I for one would like us to consider that the answer to the question of 1 million more people being born each year is to advance the cause of Freedom.  In so doing, allowing people to make their own choices and advance their own values they will invariably take more personal stock in those choices and as such themselves.  Through that natural prospect of self ownership there will be a far less impulse to destroy an extension of themselves, their own unborn offspring.  

Moreover, at current we directly fund 13 years of primary education, and subsidize (both to institutions and through nationalized loans) secondary education.  And yet, with all that assistance, the educational establishment has still generated over 1 trillion dollars in student loans its own students don't feel they have the economic ability to pay back! In my view this level of largesse and inefficiency only exists because the primary consumers (Parents and students) have been divorced from the decision making process by those wishing to do them "good."  They are forced at the policeman's gun to pay into a system they have no control over and must participate in.  In a truly free educational market there would be no reason for frivolous electives or social engineering when the parents are involved in deciding what to pay for.  You will have a much higher rate of production among graduates, lower costs, and greatly reduced time scale.  

Why does the time scale matter?  At current, when stratified for age, Women out earn their male counterparts until around Age 35.  Why is that a bad thing?  Well is order for a woman to see a man as a potential long term partner, they generally look for a man that makes roughly about 50% more than they do.  So what does that mean?  That means that structurally unless a woman in her prime years of fertility is willing to date someone about 10 to 15 years older than her, 90% of her options are going to be, by modern definition, casual.  If a young woman is involved in casual hookup culture then its far more likely that a potential pregnancy is going to be with a  partner that doesn't answer her Longterm hypergamous question and wouldn't be able to adequately provide for her and her offspring.  In short, our tax dollars are funding a system that essentially necessitates hook up culture!  If men reached their economic peak at 25 instead of 35 then it would be a lot easier for a young woman to see a blip as an opportunity than a ticket to dependence or poverty.  

We Can reduce barriers to entry to start businesses, curtail unnecessary licensure, reduce taxes and fees, lower the minimum wage to allow teens to enter the work force, liberalize zoning, liquidate federal lands for private use, I can go on.  There is a laundry list of things we can do that will reduce the size of government and allow young parents greater freedom to provide a better life for themselves and their children.  Not to mention the fact that in this country we give away close to 400 billion dollars in private charitable activities.  Never let it be said that in order for you to oppose modern genocide that you have to vote for Bernie Sanders.  

FoBourgeoisie w
Jj some issues reach beyond in political ideology. Yes there is rampant abuse of social welfare programs but that doesn't change the reality that without them many of these kids are going to suffer horribly. If we are truly going to call ourselves pro life then let's do it. It's not about scoring a political win or strategically beating the democrats for me. It's strictly a question of what now, for my entire adult life the fight has been to end the genocide. While overturning Roe doesn't end abortions outright it brings into reality the opportunity for many states to end it. In those states which will have my full support we absolutely can not drop the ball and abandon these kids at birth or there mother's. Further more the argument that better access to birth control would mitigate the need for abortions from unwanted pregnancy is a solid argument. I can not come up with a reason that argument is wrong. My only goal is to end the genocide, my only goal is to protect the children, I don't care about anything else. If that means this is the only political victory we get so be it, end the genocide at all cost.
(05-04-2022, 07:08 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-04-2022, 06:57 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]This totally sucks !!!  I'm trying to get to heaven but I'm simply counting on the majority of the population being total jerks throughout their lifetime.  You and your family are not helping my cause.

You could always do what I did o pad your stats and adopt a couple special needs kids of your own.

Back in the 1400s you could buy your way into heaven.
(05-09-2022, 05:18 AM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Jj some issues reach beyond in political ideology. Yes there is rampant abuse of social welfare programs but that doesn't change the reality that without them many of these kids are going to suffer horribly.  If we are truly going to call ourselves pro life then let's do it. It's not about scoring a political win or strategically beating the democrats for me. It's strictly a question of what now, for my entire adult life the fight has been to end the genocide.

Not really.  Let's be honest, we don't REALLY mean that.  If we actually took that word to heart, you don't wait for a 6-3 majority to end GENOCIDE!  That's why we're loosing.  

While overturning Roe doesn't end abortions outright it brings into reality the opportunity for many states to end it. In those states which will have my full support we absolutely can not drop the ball and abandon these kids at birth or there mother's.

That's another example of Feels before reals.  Of all the bad arguments for raising the minimum wage, the best argument is based on the fact that in most cases it pays MORE to be on public assistance than it does to find an entry level job!  You don't just have cash payments, Snap, Refundable tax credits and the like.  You also have HUD, Medicaid, The affordable care act etc.  The idea that somehow in the current system we are starting with ZERO social safety net is just a talking point for the far Left.  NY and CA have the largest state sponsored Social Safety nets, has the demand for abortion gone up or down in those states?  I'll wait.    

Further more the argument that better access to birth control would mitigate the need for abortions from unwanted pregnancy is a solid argument. I can not come up with a reason that argument is wrong. My only goal is to end the genocide, my only goal is to protect the children, I don't care about anything else. If that means this is the only political victory we get so be it, end the genocide at all cost.

In the 19th century, there was no social safety net, a not insignificant portion of the country was just emerging from unimaginable, inhumane, forced bondage.  Almost all families were living at below subsistence levels compared to what we have today, and birth control had not yet been invented.  Moreover the Mortality rate for bearing a child was infinitely higher, there was nothing called an epidural so having a child meant bearing a kind of pain i can scarcely imagine.  Is the demand for abortion Higher or lower now?

Now, I am not advocating for the restriction of birth control.  Far from it.  I am simply pointing out that its introduction to the populace from invention to over 90% consumption has had the opposite affect than is what's currently advertised.  Why?  Because although it was advertised as a means of family planning for married couples, it was the first step in ushering in the sexual revolution as a precursor to modern hook up culture.  As such it fundamentally divorced the physical expression of love from both humanity (it's basic role in pro-creation) and critical thinking.  Why should a woman have to vet her partners?  Its all fun, no one's getting hurt what's the big deal.  Once you deny the humanity of both your partner and yourself, how hard is it then to abandon the humanity of a being you can't see?

Again, one of the challenges we face is our unwillingness to confront the true nature of those who oppose us.  Shonda Rhymes is one of the most influential figures in our modern culture.   Essentially she owns a day of the week in the hearts and minds of many Affluent Suburban women.  Two of her strongest female leads, Dr. Christina Yang and Ms. Olivia Pope were depicted killing their unborn child.  Both Characters were affluent, both Characters were impregnated by suitable partners, a doctor and a President Respectfully.  Yet both were depicted to peaceful joyous tones, killing their unborn children.  Why?  In the name of Equal Pay and rebelling against the Patriarchy.  

Post Great Society we have spent 22 trillion Plus on redistributive programs (that's just @ The federal level) we have given trillions to Charitable activities and the like, we have funded an educational establishment to the tune of trillions of dollars.  Yet we have still managed to kill over 65 million people in the legacy of planned parenthood (founded to simply expand the use of BC.)  This wasn't a case of women bloodying their hands on the church doorsteps while being spit on with their unborn children slinking away to PP with no recourse.  This happened in the Richest nation to ever exist that has spent trillions of dollars to assist the less fortunate.  This happened as the end game of a Demonic Marketing campaign to paint unborn children, the closest thing to innocence in a fallen world, as obstacles to the latest iteration of egalitarian utopia conjured up by the authoritarian far left.  They don't deny the humanity of Children because of their birth status.  That's just the fig leaf.  They deny their humanity because in a "socialized" world, the life of ANY individual is insignificant to the collective whole.

If you believe as I do that this was in fact a genocide against Human beings and not just clumps of cells then we are on the doorstep of surpassing the second world war, in all its theaters, as the single greatest mass casualty event in the history of all Mankind.    The left and those who advocated it will not take that lightly.  They will not allow that truth to define their legacy or much less consign them to the ash-heap of history.  There is a reason that the Author of the leaked draft opinion can't go out in public and that we are having to erect fences around the people's house!  This enemy can be defeated, but it will not be defeated with Apology, concession or prequalification.  It can only be defeated with the basic assertion that despite whatever collective goal or aim someone wishes to achieve the life of an individual human being are precious and inalienable.  Moreover, the only legitimate role of the state is as expression of the common need to protect those rights through force of law.  We as INDIVIDUALS have and always will help those in need, but we stop genocide because it's evil, not because some far leftist finally believes that they have sufficiently mitigated income inequality.
(05-09-2022, 05:18 AM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Jj some issues reach beyond in political ideology. Yes there is rampant abuse of social welfare programs but that doesn't change the reality that without them many of these kids are going to suffer horribly. If we are truly going to call ourselves pro life then let's do it. It's not about scoring a political win or strategically beating the democrats for me. It's strictly a question of what now, for my entire adult life the fight has been to end the genocide. While overturning Roe doesn't end abortions outright it brings into reality the opportunity for many states to end it. In those states which will have my full support we absolutely can not drop the ball and abandon these kids at birth or there mother's. Further more the argument that better access to birth control would mitigate the need for abortions from unwanted pregnancy is a solid argument. I can not come up with a reason that argument is wrong. My only goal is to end the genocide, my only goal is to protect the children, I don't care about anything else. If that means this is the only political victory we get so be it, end the genocide at all cost.

Not really. Political ideology is driving everything in this country. See, the thing is, I have become much more liberal as I have gotten older and have learned more about history and progressive philosophy. So much so, that I don't know that I would consider myself a conservative if I held these views 20 years ago. However, JJ is 100% correct. When you look at the way these policies have been implemented by the left, they don't do anything but lead to disfunction within the American system. 

They are intentionally designed to destroy the American family and replace it with hook up culture. They want to federalize all educational institutions, so they can shape the minds of the next generations. They want to create federal police forces that operate at the behest of the government. The attack and destroy religious morals and replace them with secular morals, not to create more freedom for the individual, but to give more power to the state. Their ultimate goal is to replace individualism with collectivism. 

Let's just take your concern about welfare: If you really wanted to help people, would you create a system that encouraged separation of the family and kept people from being able to make more money by working? That's exactly what our welfare system does. There are more benefits given to single mothers than ones with husbands. A person has to make over 60k a year or risk losing their welfare benefits. It completely entrenches the lower class in a state of dependance, creates a hypersexualized culture, and then offers and encourages abortions as a form of population control. Ultimately, this limits the growth and success of people who become ensnared in this system, which disproportionately affects blacks. This isn't an accident. It's in the literature. There is a reason the black population has not grown as a percentage of the population in the last 20 years. 

That said, I would be open to looking into creating systems that help people, but this can only be achieved if we destroy this progressive cancer that is plaguing our country. Then we have to destroy the abuse and corruption by the corporate-government elite. Then and only then can we solve these problems.
I don't think we should be hectoring each other over interpretations of 150 year old history.
Let's agree that raising a child is inherently a cash negative proposition, so some level of welfare or subsidy is needed for some of the people raising children.
Let's agree that the welfare state today creates incentives to not work, and to avoid getting raises.
So let's work on that.
Please?
Can't be done. You have to get rid of the cancerous ideology the state is using to create an authoritarian regime posing as a democratic republic.
(05-09-2022, 09:29 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think we should be hectoring each other over interpretations of 150 year old history.
Let's agree that raising a child is inherently a cash negative proposition, so some level of welfare or subsidy is needed for some of the people raising children.
Let's agree that the welfare state today creates incentives to not work, and to avoid getting raises.
So let's work on that.
Please?

In every stare that I am aware of, Father's are legally obligated to financially support their children.
(05-09-2022, 10:16 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-09-2022, 09:29 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think we should be hectoring each other over interpretations of 150 year old history.
Let's agree that raising a child is inherently a cash negative proposition, so some level of welfare or subsidy is needed for some of the people raising children.
Let's agree that the welfare state today creates incentives to not work, and to avoid getting raises.
So let's work on that.
Please?

In every stare that I am aware of, Father's are legally obligated to financially support their children.

Right, there are legal penalties if a father fails to pay up.
That's good.
But some dads are in jail.
Other dads are paid under the table.
It's part of our solution, but it's far from complete.

(05-09-2022, 10:04 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Can't be done. You have to get rid of the cancerous ideology the state is using to create an authoritarian regime posing as a democratic republic.

I don't understand what you are saying.
There are elections.  Candidate A or candidate B wins.
Then there are sessions of the legislature.  Bill C passes or fails to pass.
At what point in that process can we "get rid of" any "cancerous ideology" ?
(05-09-2022, 11:06 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-09-2022, 10:16 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]In every stare that I am aware of, Father's are legally obligated to financially support their children.

Right, there are legal penalties if a father fails to pay up.
That's good.
But some dads are in jail.
Other dads are paid under the table.
It's part of our solution, but it's far from complete.

(05-09-2022, 10:04 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Can't be done. You have to get rid of the cancerous ideology the state is using to create an authoritarian regime posing as a democratic republic.

I don't understand what you are saying.
There are elections.  Candidate A or candidate B wins.
Then there are sessions of the legislature.  Bill C passes or fails to pass.
At what point in that process can we "get rid of" any "cancerous ideology" ?

Actually it's closer to being a problem than a solution but I digress.  

Solution 1.) Men and women see each other as human beings not extensions of pornography.  

2.) As a country we recognize the humanity of unborn children.  

3.) We recognize the humanity of our own families 

4.) We recognize the humanity of our neighbors.  


As to point 4, as a country we give away close to 400 billion dollars in charitable and alimosinary activity.  Show me the churches turning away pregnant women and I'll take care of it.
(05-04-2022, 07:08 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-04-2022, 06:57 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]This totally sucks !!!  I'm trying to get to heaven but I'm simply counting on the majority of the population being total jerks throughout their lifetime.  You and your family are not helping my cause.

You could always do what I did o pad your stats and adopt a couple special needs kids of your own.

wait, i'm looking for people to take care of me and somehow me being rewarded for it so i don't think you strategy is going to work.  joking aside, anyone that has been put into a position to take care of a special needs person or has volunteered to do so accordingly should be rewarded for eternity.
Honestly I don't know how I am taking care of my family with what I earn.

I am an expert at all Adobe products, from Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere Pro and After Effects... but I don't have a degree or certification testifying to that - just over seven years of constant experience - so my employer feels its his prerogative to pay me less than someone who has a piece of paper.

That's what needs to stop. Considering a degree or certificate as if it means ANYTHING. They can still SUCK. They still may have the creativity of a fruit fly. All College teaches you is how to drink. It's a [BLEEP] system perpetuated by the dregs of society - the pretentious fools that think an MBA makes them intelligent. lol
(05-09-2022, 11:57 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-09-2022, 11:06 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Right, there are legal penalties if a father fails to pay up.
That's good.
But some dads are in jail.
Other dads are paid under the table.
It's part of our solution, but it's far from complete.


I don't understand what you are saying.
There are elections.  Candidate A or candidate B wins.
Then there are sessions of the legislature.  Bill C passes or fails to pass.
At what point in that process can we "get rid of" any "cancerous ideology" ?

Actually it's closer to being a problem than a solution but I digress.  

Solution 1.) Men and women see each other as human beings not extensions of pornography.  

2.) As a country we recognize the humanity of unborn children.  

3.) We recognize the humanity of our own families 

4.) We recognize the humanity of our neighbors.  


As to point 4, as a country we give away close to 400 billion dollars in charitable and alimosinary activity.  Show me the churches turning away pregnant women and I'll take care of it.

How does a legislator make a man or woman stop objectifying other humans as sex objects? What does that law look like? How are charges brought? What facts would a jury consider to assess your guilt?
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