(08-18-2023, 10:25 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 09:58 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Those really sound like "you" problems to me. Your entire scenario is based on no one doing those things even though the current EV nonsense clearly shows you that companies and people will still act to solve those problems. You think that if we roll back regulatory overreach the whole world will become a barren polluted hellscape but really you've just watched way too many environmentalist propaganda flicks.
I assume you are a relatively healthy man with a decent income. I am too. But not everyone is. What if you weren't? That's what I'm asking.
EVs are supported by tax breaks that you oppose. Hybrids are supported by fleet efficiency requirements that you oppose. Neither would be on the market at all if not for these policies. The current market allows it to look like a choice where I care about the environment and buy a hybrid and you don't and buy conventional, but those choices don't exist without the government regulation creating them. And you oppose that. You are not for me having these choices. You are for me choosing the color and size of the conventional gas vehicle with high emissions that I want.
If I weren't then I figure it out. Why do you think I would deserve to have someone solve my problem for me? Why is it ok to make other people sacrifice for my well being? It's noble of you to believe that right up until you understand that coerced compassion isn't compassion at all, it's merely tyranny with a pretty face.
EVs only exist because grifters figured out how to get money from the tax payers to line their wallets. If EVs were in demand the Market would provide them. I want peanut butter flavored Triskets but no one else does so I don't have that choice. Shouldn't we give Nabisco subsidies to make PBTs to make me happy? Of course not, no one in their right mind would think so. Well, except for the Exceptional Flavors of Snack Crackers Foundation, a non-profit lobbying organization dedicated to the proposition that all snacks are created equal and no person should be left without their personal favorites. (Won't you send us just $20 today to help continue this important mission?) Nah, a free market will provide the goods and services that are in demand; what we have now is a severe distortion full of waste and corruption.
(08-18-2023, 10:47 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 10:25 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I assume you are a relatively healthy man with a decent income. I am too. But not everyone is. What if you weren't? That's what I'm asking.
EVs are supported by tax breaks that you oppose. Hybrids are supported by fleet efficiency requirements that you oppose. Neither would be on the market at all if not for these policies. The current market allows it to look like a choice where I care about the environment and buy a hybrid and you don't and buy conventional, but those choices don't exist without the government regulation creating them. And you oppose that. You are not for me having these choices. You are for me choosing the color and size of the conventional gas vehicle with high emissions that I want.
If I weren't then I figure it out. Why do you think I would deserve to have someone solve my problem for me? Why is it ok to make other people sacrifice for my well being? It's noble of you to believe that right up until you understand that coerced compassion isn't compassion at all, it's merely tyranny with a pretty face.
EVs only exist because grifters figured out how to get money from the tax payers to line their wallets. If EVs were in demand the Market would provide them. I want peanut butter flavored Triskets but no one else does so I don't have that choice. Shouldn't we give Nabisco subsidies to make PBTs to make me happy? Of course not, no one in their right mind would think so. Well, except for the Exceptional Flavors of Snack Crackers Foundation, a non-profit lobbying organization dedicated to the proposition that all snacks are created equal and no person should be left without their personal favorites. (Won't you send us just $20 today to help continue this important mission?) Nah, a free market will provide the goods and services that are in demand; what we have now is a severe distortion full of waste and corruption.
The cost to develop and market peanut butter flavored triscuits is negligible. The barriers to entry are negligible.
These things are not true for new vehicle technologies.
(08-18-2023, 10:48 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2023, 02:32 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Yes
What about my right to breathe clean air? Should your right to take your catalytic converter off your car trump my right to breathe clean air? Why are your rights more important than everyone else's?
Because it's what I want and I don't really have a need to care about you or what you want unless it's to my benefit. That's the crux of the argument on both sides, always has been and always will be. It's just a matter of who wins out in the end. I'm simply the realist in the room who knows why we do this and doesn't try to dress it up in saving the world, or smiling on my brother, or it's for your own good. The world is about me and mine, your mileage may vary.
(08-18-2023, 10:52 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 10:47 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]If I weren't then I figure it out. Why do you think I would deserve to have someone solve my problem for me? Why is it ok to make other people sacrifice for my well being? It's noble of you to believe that right up until you understand that coerced compassion isn't compassion at all, it's merely tyranny with a pretty face.
EVs only exist because grifters figured out how to get money from the tax payers to line their wallets. If EVs were in demand the Market would provide them. I want peanut butter flavored Triskets but no one else does so I don't have that choice. Shouldn't we give Nabisco subsidies to make PBTs to make me happy? Of course not, no one in their right mind would think so. Well, except for the Exceptional Flavors of Snack Crackers Foundation, a non-profit lobbying organization dedicated to the proposition that all snacks are created equal and no person should be left without their personal favorites. (Won't you send us just $20 today to help continue this important mission?) Nah, a free market will provide the goods and services that are in demand; what we have now is a severe distortion full of waste and corruption.
The cost to develop and market peanut butter flavored triscuits is negligible. The barriers to entry are negligible.
These things are not true for new vehicle technologies.
Uh huh, because someone erected those barriers to entry by creating an expensive regulatory scheme that selects winners and losers. Gee, I wonder who and why that happened?
(08-18-2023, 10:57 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 10:48 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]What about my right to breathe clean air? Should your right to take your catalytic converter off your car trump my right to breathe clean air? Why are your rights more important than everyone else's?
Because it's what I want and I don't really have a need to care about you or what you want unless it's to my benefit. That's the crux of the argument on both sides, always has been and always will be. It's just a matter of who wins out in the end. I'm simply the realist in the room who knows why we do this and doesn't try to dress it up in saving the world, or smiling on my brother, or it's for your own good. The world is about me and mine, your mileage may vary.
So apparently, according to you, I have the right to burn down your house, "Because it's what I want and I don't really have a need to care about you or what you want unless it's to my benefit."
(08-18-2023, 10:57 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 10:48 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]What about my right to breathe clean air? Should your right to take your catalytic converter off your car trump my right to breathe clean air? Why are your rights more important than everyone else's?
Because it's what I want and I don't really have a need to care about you or what you want unless it's to my benefit. That's the crux of the argument on both sides, always has been and always will be. It's just a matter of who wins out in the end. I'm simply the realist in the room who knows why we do this and doesn't try to dress it up in saving the world, or smiling on my brother, or it's for your own good. The world is about me and mine, your mileage may vary.
(08-18-2023, 10:52 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The cost to develop and market peanut butter flavored triscuits is negligible. The barriers to entry are negligible.
These things are not true for new vehicle technologies.
Uh huh, because someone erected those barriers to entry by creating an expensive regulatory scheme that selects winners and losers. Gee, I wonder who and why that happened?
The cost of creating batteries and motors fit for a four passenger vehicle with 200+ miles of highway range have everything to do with economies of scale and very little if anything to do with regulations.
(08-18-2023, 11:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 10:57 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Because it's what I want and I don't really have a need to care about you or what you want unless it's to my benefit. That's the crux of the argument on both sides, always has been and always will be. It's just a matter of who wins out in the end. I'm simply the realist in the room who knows why we do this and doesn't try to dress it up in saving the world, or smiling on my brother, or it's for your own good. The world is about me and mine, your mileage may vary.
So apparently, according to you, I have the right to burn down your house, "Because it's what I want and I don't really have a need to care about you or what you want unless it's to my benefit."
I don't wish for anarchy, I wish for the smallest possible government to keep society civil. What we have is a corrupted leviathan that uses (in this case) "clean air" as a tool to enrich and empower some at the expense of others. And it grows more powerful every day. It's amazing how right Orwell was about you guys, you truly do love your Big Brother.
(08-18-2023, 11:07 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 10:57 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Because it's what I want and I don't really have a need to care about you or what you want unless it's to my benefit. That's the crux of the argument on both sides, always has been and always will be. It's just a matter of who wins out in the end. I'm simply the realist in the room who knows why we do this and doesn't try to dress it up in saving the world, or smiling on my brother, or it's for your own good. The world is about me and mine, your mileage may vary.
Uh huh, because someone erected those barriers to entry by creating an expensive regulatory scheme that selects winners and losers. Gee, I wonder who and why that happened?
The cost of creating batteries and motors fit for a four passenger vehicle with 200+ miles of highway range have everything to do with economies of scale and very little if anything to do with regulations.
And we have no one who can do it? Innovation and invention are now dead pursuits? Capitalism died and there's nothing left of its corpse to plunder now? Is that what your position on this is, that we just can't do it if the government doesn't force it and the tax payers finance it?
(08-18-2023, 11:20 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 11:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So apparently, according to you, I have the right to burn down your house, "Because it's what I want and I don't really have a need to care about you or what you want unless it's to my benefit."
I don't wish for anarchy, I wish for the smallest possible government to keep society civil. What we have is a corrupted leviathan that uses (in this case) "clean air" as a tool to enrich and empower some at the expense of others. And it grows more powerful every day. It's amazing how right Orwell was about you guys, you truly do love your Big Brother.
(08-18-2023, 11:07 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The cost of creating batteries and motors fit for a four passenger vehicle with 200+ miles of highway range have everything to do with economies of scale and very little if anything to do with regulations.
And we have no one who can do it? Innovation and invention are now dead pursuits? Capitalism died and there's nothing left of its corpse to plunder now? Is that what your position on this is, that we just can't do it if the government doesn't force it and the tax payers finance it?
Orwell wrote about Big Brother in 1948. Whether you want to look at the UK or the US, the government has much less control of the economy now than it did then.
As for electric cars, it's plausible that something like Tesla exists without government support today, but it would sell much fewer cars and it would have reached the market years later. These types of government interventions speed private intervention and multiply consumer benefits by unlocking economies of scale. Now, most government subsidies do not do this and have much less benefit. But even in a world where we don't believe in mitigating climate change, electric cars still reduce our economy's exposure to the fluctuations of the oil market, so it has a national importance.
You moderates are convinced the ball is under the cup. The ball was palmed before that cup ever hit the table. Some of us are waking up to the con because we've seen people losing the game or lost the game ourselves. But hey, keep betting on the cup. You're following it closely, convinced you're the one that's able to see it. You'll change your mind when you're the mark.
Keep talking about clean air while our money gets funneled into the pockets of fat cats. Your ability to move into that stratosphere is diminishing by the day. At least you can speak freely on a football message board. Lol. Freedom.
(08-18-2023, 01:38 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You moderates are convinced the ball is under the cup. The ball was palmed before that cup ever hit the table. Some of us are waking up to the con because we've seen people losing the game or lost the game ourselves. But hey, keep betting on the cup. You're following it closely, convinced you're the one that's able to see it. You'll change your mind when you're the mark.
Keep talking about clean air while our money gets funneled into the pockets of fat cats. Your ability to move into that stratosphere is diminishing by the day. At least you can speak freely on a football message board. Lol. Freedom.
Correction. Fat cats who toe the correct line. Elon Musk was one of the presumed leaders of the environmental movement until he uttered ‘freedom of speech’. Now he’s loathed by those same people even though he’s still the top supplier of eco-friendly cars.
It’s a tough and confusing world in leftist land.
(08-18-2023, 01:47 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 01:38 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You moderates are convinced the ball is under the cup. The ball was palmed before that cup ever hit the table. Some of us are waking up to the con because we've seen people losing the game or lost the game ourselves. But hey, keep betting on the cup. You're following it closely, convinced you're the one that's able to see it. You'll change your mind when you're the mark.
Keep talking about clean air while our money gets funneled into the pockets of fat cats. Your ability to move into that stratosphere is diminishing by the day. At least you can speak freely on a football message board. Lol. Freedom.
Correction. Fat cats who toe the correct line. Elon Musk was one of the presumed leaders of the environmental movement until he uttered ‘freedom of speech’. Now he’s loathed by those same people even though he’s still the top supplier of eco-friendly cars.
It’s a tough and confusing world in leftist land.
And Tesla is still worth gobs of money, while x.com is losing money and influence every day. Mostly because it's getting harder to use.
Not a culture war. As much as you want it to be.
(08-18-2023, 02:40 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 01:47 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Correction. Fat cats who toe the correct line. Elon Musk was one of the presumed leaders of the environmental movement until he uttered ‘freedom of speech’. Now he’s loathed by those same people even though he’s still the top supplier of eco-friendly cars.
It’s a tough and confusing world in leftist land.
And Tesla is still worth gobs of money, while x.com is losing money and influence every day. Mostly because it's getting harder to use.
Bull [BLEEP]..
I've been using Twitter since the beginning and X is the same damn platform with a different name. Nothing changed other than your lib buddies finally getting the kick in the nuts they deserved with Musk's new Freedom of Speech stance on social media..
So..
Back to the trash you go..
![[Image: SgLgo.gif]](https://s11.gifyu.com/images/SgLgo.gif)
(08-18-2023, 01:38 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You moderates are convinced the ball is under the cup. The ball was palmed before that cup ever hit the table. Some of us are waking up to the con because we've seen people losing the game or lost the game ourselves. But hey, keep betting on the cup. You're following it closely, convinced you're the one that's able to see it. You'll change your mind when you're the mark.
Keep talking about clean air while our money gets funneled into the pockets of fat cats. Your ability to move into that stratosphere is diminishing by the day. At least you can speak freely on a football message board. Lol. Freedom.
We are both married to medicine and doing great for ourselves. What are you talking about?
(08-18-2023, 02:45 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 02:40 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]And Tesla is still worth gobs of money, while x.com is losing money and influence every day. Mostly because it's getting harder to use.
Bull [BLEEP]..
I've been using Twitter since the beginning and X is the same damn platform with a different name. Nothing changed other than your lib buddies finally getting the kick in the nuts they deserved with Musk's new Freedom of Speech stance on social media..
So..
Back to the trash you go..
I've never posted on Twitter. So your expeience is different from mine. But I did make a profile and follow a few things. It used to deliver me a daily email of interesting stuff and every link worked. Then some of the links stopped working. Then the email became weekly. Then monthly. Then none of the links worked. It's a mess, from my perspective.
(08-18-2023, 02:50 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 01:38 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You moderates are convinced the ball is under the cup. The ball was palmed before that cup ever hit the table. Some of us are waking up to the con because we've seen people losing the game or lost the game ourselves. But hey, keep betting on the cup. You're following it closely, convinced you're the one that's able to see it. You'll change your mind when you're the mark.
Keep talking about clean air while our money gets funneled into the pockets of fat cats. Your ability to move into that stratosphere is diminishing by the day. At least you can speak freely on a football message board. Lol. Freedom.
We are both married to medicine and doing great for ourselves. What are you talking about?
(08-18-2023, 02:45 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Bull [BLEEP]..
I've been using Twitter since the beginning and X is the same damn platform with a different name. Nothing changed other than your lib buddies finally getting the kick in the nuts they deserved with Musk's new Freedom of Speech stance on social media..
So..
Back to the trash you go..
I've never posted on Twitter. So your expeience is different from mine. But I did make a profile and follow a few things. It used to deliver me a daily email of interesting stuff and every link worked. Then some of the links stopped working. Then the email became weekly. Then monthly. Then none of the links worked. It's a mess, from my perspective.
Try updating the damn thing in the playstore, or apple store if you swing that way. But to say that it's getting worse and harder to use is such bull [BLEEP]..
(08-18-2023, 02:55 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 02:50 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]We are both married to medicine and doing great for ourselves. What are you talking about?
I've never posted on Twitter. So your expeience is different from mine. But I did make a profile and follow a few things. It used to deliver me a daily email of interesting stuff and every link worked. Then some of the links stopped working. Then the email became weekly. Then monthly. Then none of the links worked. It's a mess, from my perspective.
Try updating the damn thing in the playstore, or apple store if you swing that way. But to say that it's getting worse and harder to use is such bull [BLEEP]..
Nah, I'm browser only. Got enough apps. Plus sometimes I opened these emails on my desktop.
(08-18-2023, 02:50 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 01:38 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You moderates are convinced the ball is under the cup. The ball was palmed before that cup ever hit the table. Some of us are waking up to the con because we've seen people losing the game or lost the game ourselves. But hey, keep betting on the cup. You're following it closely, convinced you're the one that's able to see it. You'll change your mind when you're the mark.
Keep talking about clean air while our money gets funneled into the pockets of fat cats. Your ability to move into that stratosphere is diminishing by the day. At least you can speak freely on a football message board. Lol. Freedom.
We are both married to medicine and doing great for ourselves. What are you talking about?
(08-18-2023, 02:45 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Bull [BLEEP]..
I've been using Twitter since the beginning and X is the same damn platform with a different name. Nothing changed other than your lib buddies finally getting the kick in the nuts they deserved with Musk's new Freedom of Speech stance on social media..
So..
Back to the trash you go..
I've never posted on Twitter. So your expeience is different from mine. But I did make a profile and follow a few things. It used to deliver me a daily email of interesting stuff and every link worked. Then some of the links stopped working. Then the email became weekly. Then monthly. Then none of the links worked. It's a mess, from my perspective.
Reading comprehension is your friend, bro.
I am much more concerned with the average American than I am my personal family. Even still, while we are doing ok right now, we were MUCH better off 4 years ago. This all ain't Covid. I know you want to believe that, but it just isn't. This is the result of corrupt policies that favor the wealthy (and crumbs to the poor), like usual.
(08-18-2023, 04:14 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2023, 02:50 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]We are both married to medicine and doing great for ourselves. What are you talking about?
I've never posted on Twitter. So your expeience is different from mine. But I did make a profile and follow a few things. It used to deliver me a daily email of interesting stuff and every link worked. Then some of the links stopped working. Then the email became weekly. Then monthly. Then none of the links worked. It's a mess, from my perspective.
Reading comprehension is your friend, bro.
I am much more concerned with the average American than I am my personal family. Even still, while we are doing ok right now, we were MUCH better off 4 years ago. This all ain't Covid. I know you want to believe that, but it just isn't. This is the result of corrupt policies that favor the wealthy (and crumbs to the poor), like usual.
OK but I don't really want to have that conversation with you because you'll always turn it back to this preposterous discussion of each company having a maximum salary and maximum dividend.
Even ignoring how such a policy is leftist on its face, you're essentially instituting a 100% tax bracket where they either have to divert the money to their lowest paid workers or to the government. Laffer teaches us that 100% marginal rate taxes are 100% evaded.
Nope. Let them evade. We have the technology, resources, and opportunity to pull this off
![[Image: Cz-Pb-PD2-UAAALVwe.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/wxyNytpg/Cz-Pb-PD2-UAAALVwe.jpg)