(03-28-2024, 06:08 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-28-2024, 03:21 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]Your silence speaks volumes. Do you like where the country has gone under Biden? If you want to sign up for four more years of the same, you know what to do in November.
I'm not trying to start a conversation about whom we should vote for in November. What I want to know is, why does Trump tell so many lies? Even when a lie wouldn't benefit him at all, he still makes up a lie. And he does it so constantly, and his lies are so transparent, you have to wonder if he even realizes he's lying.
Why did you wait for Trump to lie about something before you pissed in your panties about it?
How many times have you even bothered to question this current administration?
Seems like you just want to get Trump on something..
Or am I wrong?
(03-28-2024, 01:17 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-28-2024, 01:15 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Did you vote for Biden? Simple question.
I've answered that question before, but what does that have to do with this thread?
You and Mikey... 2 peas in a pod, man. You both claim to be conservative leaning, but you voted for Biden. You don't get to duck behind your past when people call you a Democrat. We don't care how you self-identify. You watch their news. You repeat their lies. You vote for their candidates. Establishment types are just quibbling over how to spend taxpayer dollars at this point. Every person that voted for Biden is responsible for putting people in office who don't care about Americans. That's you. You might not have a D next to your name, but may as well.
As to your point about Trump lying. Duh. Everyone knows it. If you want to cling to the few Trump worshippers out there and cast that net on everyone who can recognize the real problem in this country (power-hungry establishment types), that's on you. Trump lies because he's a narcissist. Yes. Even when he doesn't have to. If it's a threat to his ego. He lies.
You would rather vote for liars who are supported by other liars, who start new wars and point the finger at other people while our system of government and economy collapses, than vote for a liar who lies about the size of his hands who doesn't start new wars and makes companies accountable for their actions (at least more than what we are used to). Great job, Democrat.
(03-28-2024, 06:08 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-28-2024, 03:21 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]Your silence speaks volumes. Do you like where the country has gone under Biden? If you want to sign up for four more years of the same, you know what to do in November.
I'm not trying to start a conversation about whom we should vote for in November. What I want to know is, why does Trump tell so many lies? Even when a lie wouldn't benefit him at all, he still makes up a lie. And he does it so constantly, and his lies are so transparent, you have to wonder if he even realizes he's lying.
Can you reference any one particular lie? I'm not saying he doesn't, but simply looking for an example for the purposes of this discussion. The thresholds from inaccurate to significantly exaggerated, and again to blatantly false, are not always clearly defined. His insecurity and ego certainly drive the exaggeration. He's been doing it his whole life and has never been called out for it, so most of the time, I doubt he even realizes he's doing it.
(03-28-2024, 09:23 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (03-28-2024, 06:08 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not trying to start a conversation about whom we should vote for in November. What I want to know is, why does Trump tell so many lies? Even when a lie wouldn't benefit him at all, he still makes up a lie. And he does it so constantly, and his lies are so transparent, you have to wonder if he even realizes he's lying.
Can you reference any one particular lie? I'm not saying he doesn't, but simply looking for an example for the purposes of this discussion. The thresholds from inaccurate to significantly exaggerated, and again to blatantly false, are not always clearly defined. His insecurity and ego certainly drive the exaggeration. He's been doing it his whole life and has never been called out for it, so most of the time, I doubt he even realizes he's doing it.
Read the first post of this thread.
(03-29-2024, 06:38 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-28-2024, 09:23 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]Can you reference any one particular lie? I'm not saying he doesn't, but simply looking for an example for the purposes of this discussion. The thresholds from inaccurate to significantly exaggerated, and again to blatantly false, are not always clearly defined. His insecurity and ego certainly drive the exaggeration. He's been doing it his whole life and has never been called out for it, so most of the time, I doubt he even realizes he's doing it.
Read the first post of this thread.
Seriously, that's all you've got? A story that doesn't make sense and you turn it into the Warren Commision report?
(03-29-2024, 07:10 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 06:38 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Read the first post of this thread.
Seriously, that's all you've got? A story that doesn't make sense and you turn it into the Warren Commision report?
You asked me to "reference one particular lie." Then when I do that, you say, "Is that all you've got?" That's all you asked for. That's not "all I've got." It's just the latest example. Why would he tell a story like that that makes no sense?
It's hard to have a discussion about things with you guys because you get so defensive. You know he was lying. My question is, why does he do that?
And if you want more, it's pretty easy to find:
False or misleading statements by Donald Trump - Wikipedia
During a 2018 interview, television personality Billy Bush recounted a conversation he'd had with Trump years earlier in which he refuted Trump's repeated false claims that The Apprentice was the top-rated television program in America. Bush recalled Trump responding, "Billy, look, you just tell them and they believe it. That's it: you just tell them and they believe. They just do." <he's talking about you.
(03-28-2024, 09:13 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (03-28-2024, 01:17 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I've answered that question before, but what does that have to do with this thread?
You and Mikey... 2 peas in a pod, man. You both claim to be conservative leaning, but you voted for Biden. You don't get to duck behind your past when people call you a Democrat. We don't care how you self-identify. You watch their news. You repeat their lies. You vote for their candidates. Establishment types are just quibbling over how to spend taxpayer dollars at this point. Every person that voted for Biden is responsible for putting people in office who don't care about Americans. That's you. You might not have a D next to your name, but may as well.
As to your point about Trump lying. Duh. Everyone knows it. If you want to cling to the few Trump worshippers out there and cast that net on everyone who can recognize the real problem in this country (power-hungry establishment types), that's on you. Trump lies because he's a narcissist. Yes. Even when he doesn't have to. If it's a threat to his ego. He lies.
You would rather vote for liars who are supported by other liars, who start new wars and point the finger at other people while our system of government and economy collapses, than vote for a liar who lies about the size of his hands who doesn't start new wars and makes companies accountable for their actions (at least more than what we are used to). Great job, Democrat.
I'm not really a Democrat or a Republican (although I am a registered Republican). I'm not really a liberal or a conservative. My views on various issues are not consistent with those labels. I agree with Biden on some things, and I agree with Trump on some things, and I have strong disagreements with both of them. I would probably vote for a Republican if it was someone other than Trump. I am not a populist, I am not a protectionist, I don't like tariffs, and I believe in free markets. I also don't like identity politics, or affirmative action, or forgiving student loans. I believe climate change is real and we should try to do something about it. I think we need to seriously deal with the deficit, and I don't see either side willing to do that. I think we need to stop illegal immigration and allow more legal immigration. I'm on the fence about abortion; I can see both sides of that issue. I think we need to support Ukraine and Nato.
You tell me, am I a conservative or liberal? A Republican or a Democrat?
So that leaves me on the fence, and that's why Trump's repulsive character tips the scales.
(03-29-2024, 07:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 07:10 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously, that's all you've got? A story that doesn't make sense and you turn it into the Warren Commision report?
That's not "all I've got." It's just the latest example. Why would he tell a story like that that makes no sense?
It's hard to have a discussion about things with you guys because you get so defensive. You know he was lying. My question is, why does he do that?
And if you want more, it's pretty easy to find:
False or misleading statements by Donald Trump - Wikipedia
During a 2018 interview, television personality Billy Bush recounted a conversation he'd had with Trump years earlier in which he refuted Trump's repeated false claims that The Apprentice was the top-rated television program in America. Bush recalled Trump responding, "Billy, look, you just tell them and they believe it. That's it: you just tell them and they believe. They just do." <he's talking about you.
I answered your question in post 104. His ego leads to gross exaggeration. In his mind, he's always the smartest guy in the room. I know you hate him, fine, he has a ton of character flaws. Why else do you want?
(03-29-2024, 08:22 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 07:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]That's not "all I've got." It's just the latest example. Why would he tell a story like that that makes no sense?
It's hard to have a discussion about things with you guys because you get so defensive. You know he was lying. My question is, why does he do that?
And if you want more, it's pretty easy to find:
False or misleading statements by Donald Trump - Wikipedia
During a 2018 interview, television personality Billy Bush recounted a conversation he'd had with Trump years earlier in which he refuted Trump's repeated false claims that The Apprentice was the top-rated television program in America. Bush recalled Trump responding, "Billy, look, you just tell them and they believe it. That's it: you just tell them and they believe. They just do." <he's talking about you.
I answered your question in post 104. His ego leads to gross exaggeration. In his mind, he's always the smartest guy in the room. I know you hate him, fine, he has a ton of character flaws. Why else do you want?
That's the problem with liberals. They cling to this idea that we don't know Trump's failings. We know it. We understand it. He's a narcissist with a giant ego. Cool. He lies about stupid [BLEEP]. We know that!
Biden is an evil piece of [BLEEP] that lies for other reasons.
(03-29-2024, 08:22 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 07:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]That's not "all I've got." It's just the latest example. Why would he tell a story like that that makes no sense?
It's hard to have a discussion about things with you guys because you get so defensive. You know he was lying. My question is, why does he do that?
And if you want more, it's pretty easy to find:
False or misleading statements by Donald Trump - Wikipedia
During a 2018 interview, television personality Billy Bush recounted a conversation he'd had with Trump years earlier in which he refuted Trump's repeated false claims that The Apprentice was the top-rated television program in America. Bush recalled Trump responding, "Billy, look, you just tell them and they believe it. That's it: you just tell them and they believe. They just do." <he's talking about you.
I answered your question in post 104. His ego leads to gross exaggeration. In his mind, he's always the smartest guy in the room. I know you hate him, fine, he has a ton of character flaws. Why else do you want?
Marty wants an honest politician; a thing that never was and never will be.
(03-29-2024, 08:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-28-2024, 09:13 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You and Mikey... 2 peas in a pod, man. You both claim to be conservative leaning, but you voted for Biden. You don't get to duck behind your past when people call you a Democrat. We don't care how you self-identify. You watch their news. You repeat their lies. You vote for their candidates. Establishment types are just quibbling over how to spend taxpayer dollars at this point. Every person that voted for Biden is responsible for putting people in office who don't care about Americans. That's you. You might not have a D next to your name, but may as well.
As to your point about Trump lying. Duh. Everyone knows it. If you want to cling to the few Trump worshippers out there and cast that net on everyone who can recognize the real problem in this country (power-hungry establishment types), that's on you. Trump lies because he's a narcissist. Yes. Even when he doesn't have to. If it's a threat to his ego. He lies.
You would rather vote for liars who are supported by other liars, who start new wars and point the finger at other people while our system of government and economy collapses, than vote for a liar who lies about the size of his hands who doesn't start new wars and makes companies accountable for their actions (at least more than what we are used to). Great job, Democrat.
I'm not really a Democrat or a Republican (although I am a registered Republican). I'm not really a liberal or a conservative. My views on various issues are not consistent with those labels. I agree with Biden on some things, and I agree with Trump on some things, and I have strong disagreements with both of them. I would probably vote for a Republican if it was someone other than Trump. I am not a populist, I am not a protectionist, I don't like tariffs, and I believe in free markets. I also don't like identity politics, or affirmative action, or forgiving student loans. I believe climate change is real and we should try to do something about it. I think we need to seriously deal with the deficit, and I don't see either side willing to do that. I think we need to stop illegal immigration and allow more legal immigration. I'm on the fence about abortion; I can see both sides of that issue. I think we need to support Ukraine and Nato.
You tell me, am I a conservative or liberal? A Republican or a Democrat?
So that leaves me on the fence, and that's why Trump's repulsive character tips the scales.
You sound like a reasonable centrist that has gambled here and there in their lifetime. That's fair.
Anyone who votes for Biden is a [BLEEP] moron..
(03-29-2024, 09:29 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 08:22 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]I answered your question in post 104. His ego leads to gross exaggeration. In his mind, he's always the smartest guy in the room. I know you hate him, fine, he has a ton of character flaws. Why else do you want?
That's the problem with liberals. They cling to this idea that we don't know Trump's failings. We know it. We understand it. He's a narcissist with a giant ego. Cool. He lies about stupid [BLEEP]. We know that!
Biden is an evil piece of [BLEEP] that lies for other reasons.
I'm not a liberal in this sense.
Conservatives used to believe that character was destiny.
So when someone says, "I know Trump has bad character, but I'm voting for him anyways," that person wouldn't have been called a Conservative ten years ago. The "let's ignore personal failings and focus on winning or on changing policies" folks were the liberals.
(03-29-2024, 10:23 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 09:29 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]That's the problem with liberals. They cling to this idea that we don't know Trump's failings. We know it. We understand it. He's a narcissist with a giant ego. Cool. He lies about stupid [BLEEP]. We know that!
Biden is an evil piece of [BLEEP] that lies for other reasons.
I'm not a liberal in this sense.
Conservatives used to believe that character was destiny.
So when someone says, "I know Trump has bad character, but I'm voting for him anyways," that person wouldn't have been called a Conservative ten years ago. The "let's ignore personal failings and focus on winning or on changing policies" folks were the liberals.
I'm sorry to tell you this obi wan.
There is no moral high ground anymore.
(03-29-2024, 10:01 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 08:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not really a Democrat or a Republican (although I am a registered Republican). I'm not really a liberal or a conservative. My views on various issues are not consistent with those labels. I agree with Biden on some things, and I agree with Trump on some things, and I have strong disagreements with both of them. I would probably vote for a Republican if it was someone other than Trump. I am not a populist, I am not a protectionist, I don't like tariffs, and I believe in free markets. I also don't like identity politics, or affirmative action, or forgiving student loans. I believe climate change is real and we should try to do something about it. I think we need to seriously deal with the deficit, and I don't see either side willing to do that. I think we need to stop illegal immigration and allow more legal immigration. I'm on the fence about abortion; I can see both sides of that issue. I think we need to support Ukraine and Nato.
You tell me, am I a conservative or liberal? A Republican or a Democrat?
So that leaves me on the fence, and that's why Trump's repulsive character tips the scales.
You sound like a reasonable centrist that has gambled here and there in their lifetime. That's fair.
A reasonable centrist would realize how corrupt our government is and stop supporting for their appointees. He can't, so he continues to enable a broken establishment.
Marty, you missed my point. I don't care that you have a D next to your name or not. When a Trump supporter on this board calls you a liberal or democrat, they are saying you side with the establishment. The phrase is not literal because both parties are used by a corporate oligarch to advance the interests of the rich and powerful. However, because most people aren't educated enough to be specific with their language, they call you "x." In this case, because Trump is running as a Republican and they want to fight the establishment, they put you opposite to that position, which is liberal or democrat for all intents and purposes. These Republicans are not voting for the Mitch McConnell's or the Paul Ryan's or the Nikki Haley's. They don't make a distinction between them and Joe Biden.
It's the same way that the far left calls all Republicans, Never-Trumpers and MAGA alike, far right, but they also are out protesting Biden. The "far" right and the "far" left are both the result of the same, broken system, but you keep voting for it while these crooks break it even further.
I couldn't care less about your centrism, because you miss the forest through the trees. To the people here who don't have that same problem, you're a "democrat." Stop trying to be literal and understand the actual issue.
Either way, I have been saying the moderates are the problem in this country since the last election, so I'm not mincing my words.
If you side with Democrats, you are one.. Don't care if you're a registered Republican or not..
(03-29-2024, 08:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-28-2024, 09:13 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You and Mikey... 2 peas in a pod, man. You both claim to be conservative leaning, but you voted for Biden. You don't get to duck behind your past when people call you a Democrat. We don't care how you self-identify. You watch their news. You repeat their lies. You vote for their candidates. Establishment types are just quibbling over how to spend taxpayer dollars at this point. Every person that voted for Biden is responsible for putting people in office who don't care about Americans. That's you. You might not have a D next to your name, but may as well.
As to your point about Trump lying. Duh. Everyone knows it. If you want to cling to the few Trump worshippers out there and cast that net on everyone who can recognize the real problem in this country (power-hungry establishment types), that's on you. Trump lies because he's a narcissist. Yes. Even when he doesn't have to. If it's a threat to his ego. He lies.
You would rather vote for liars who are supported by other liars, who start new wars and point the finger at other people while our system of government and economy collapses, than vote for a liar who lies about the size of his hands who doesn't start new wars and makes companies accountable for their actions (at least more than what we are used to). Great job, Democrat.
I'm not really a Democrat or a Republican (although I am a registered Republican). I'm not really a liberal or a conservative. My views on various issues are not consistent with those labels. I agree with Biden on some things, and I agree with Trump on some things, and I have strong disagreements with both of them. I would probably vote for a Republican if it was someone other than Trump. I am not a populist, I am not a protectionist, I don't like tariffs, and I believe in free markets. I also don't like identity politics, or affirmative action, or forgiving student loans. I believe climate change is real and we should try to do something about it. I think we need to seriously deal with the deficit, and I don't see either side willing to do that. I think we need to stop illegal immigration and allow more legal immigration. I'm on the fence about abortion; I can see both sides of that issue. I think we need to support Ukraine and Nato.
You tell me, am I a conservative or liberal? A Republican or a Democrat?
So that leaves me on the fence, and that's why Trump's repulsive character tips the scales.
I believe in free market principles as well, but are markets truly free when China uses artificially cheap labor? They're basically cheating the free market (this is one way, pegging their currency exchange rate to ours is another) and we're playing along because it benefits us in the short term, but is actually bad for us in the long term because it enriches and empowers a communist regime which would put our population under communist rule if they had the power to do so. One day, maybe they will. That's where tariffs become a tool to influence consumer behavior hopefully for the short term so that foreign nations can play fair or at least more fair than they were previously because the tariff raising the price on an imported good should influence consumer demand for that item and its domestic or other imported substitutes. I know it's not realistic in a cold turkey type of move and probably not realistic when our elected officials are literally and figuratively in bed with them, but I think we should aspire to not do business with communist regimes like China. At the very least, not ones using artificially cheap labor.
That's one example of when tariffs should be considered, but the broader one is our economy is the envy of the world. Everyone that mass produces a product wants to sell here. We should absolutely wield the power of tariffs when need be to get nations to do something we want before we allow their products to compete fairly and freely within our economy.
(03-29-2024, 10:55 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 10:23 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not a liberal in this sense.
Conservatives used to believe that character was destiny.
So when someone says, "I know Trump has bad character, but I'm voting for him anyways," that person wouldn't have been called a Conservative ten years ago. The "let's ignore personal failings and focus on winning or on changing policies" folks were the liberals.
I'm sorry to tell you this obi wan.
There is no moral high ground anymore.
For some there never was. This is about to violate the CoC but I think you get my meaning. Beliefs aren't idle and neither are virtues nor other character traits. They all have consequences.
(03-29-2024, 12:06 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 08:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not really a Democrat or a Republican (although I am a registered Republican). I'm not really a liberal or a conservative. My views on various issues are not consistent with those labels. I agree with Biden on some things, and I agree with Trump on some things, and I have strong disagreements with both of them. I would probably vote for a Republican if it was someone other than Trump. I am not a populist, I am not a protectionist, I don't like tariffs, and I believe in free markets. I also don't like identity politics, or affirmative action, or forgiving student loans. I believe climate change is real and we should try to do something about it. I think we need to seriously deal with the deficit, and I don't see either side willing to do that. I think we need to stop illegal immigration and allow more legal immigration. I'm on the fence about abortion; I can see both sides of that issue. I think we need to support Ukraine and Nato.
You tell me, am I a conservative or liberal? A Republican or a Democrat?
So that leaves me on the fence, and that's why Trump's repulsive character tips the scales.
I believe in free market principles as well, but are markets truly free when China uses artificially cheap labor? They're basically cheating the free market (this is one way, pegging their currency exchange rate to ours is another) and we're playing along because it benefits us in the short term, but is actually bad for us in the long term because it enriches and empowers a communist regime which would put our population under communist rule if they had the power to do so. One day, maybe they will. That's where tariffs become a tool to influence consumer behavior hopefully for the short term so that foreign nations can play fair or at least more fair than they were previously because the tariff raising the price on an imported good should influence consumer demand for that item and its domestic or other imported substitutes. I know it's not realistic in a cold turkey type of move and probably not realistic when our elected officials are literally and figuratively in bed with them, but I think we should aspire to not do business with communist regimes like China. At the very least, not ones using artificially cheap labor.
That's one example of when tariffs should be considered, but the broader one is our economy is the envy of the world. Everyone that mass produces a product wants to sell here. We should absolutely wield the power of tariffs when need be to get nations to do something we want before we allow their products to compete fairly and freely within our economy.
If China is using artificially cheap labor or artificially cheap financing to bring us artificially cheap goods, they are hurting themselves and helping us and we should not hinder them from doing so. They will not build up the wealth to threaten us this way.
There is a time and place for tariffs. Two examples are for critical national defense production (which we do all the time) and to encourage better treatment of common resources like the atmosphere and the oceans (we don't do this but we need to start). Simply keeping factories open so junior can work at the same factory dad worked at is sentimental and not a good enough reason.
(03-29-2024, 12:32 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 10:55 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sorry to tell you this obi wan.
There is no moral high ground anymore.
For some there never was. This is about to violate the CoC but I think you get my meaning. Beliefs aren't idle and neither are virtues nor other character traits. They all have consequences.
I think you're wrong. I think that's the only principle the Republicans stood on.. Moral High Ground..
Most just realize now that turning the other cheek, gets that one slapped too..
[BLEEP] Moral High Ground.. Those days are done.