(03-29-2024, 12:43 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 12:32 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]For some there never was. This is about to violate the CoC but I think you get my meaning. Beliefs aren't idle and neither are virtues nor other character traits. They all have consequences.
I think you're wrong. I think that's the only principle the Republicans stood on.. Moral High Ground..
Most just realize now that turning the other cheek, gets that one slapped too..
[BLEEP] Moral High Ground.. Those days are done.
Brother
We may disagree about what the moral high ground is.
Maybe for you it involves being more aggressive and not turning the other cheek.
But if you don't think any moral high ground exists in the first place,
Why would you care what happens in government?
(03-29-2024, 01:33 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 12:43 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]I think you're wrong. I think that's the only principle the Republicans stood on.. Moral High Ground..
Most just realize now that turning the other cheek, gets that one slapped too..
[BLEEP] Moral High Ground.. Those days are done.
Brother
We may disagree about what the moral high ground is.
Maybe for you it involves being more aggressive and not turning the other cheek.
But if you don't think any moral high ground exists in the first place,
Why would you care what happens in government?
Only your moral high ground is siding with Democrats all the time, you can have it..
(03-29-2024, 10:23 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 09:29 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]That's the problem with liberals. They cling to this idea that we don't know Trump's failings. We know it. We understand it. He's a narcissist with a giant ego. Cool. He lies about stupid [BLEEP]. We know that!
Biden is an evil piece of [BLEEP] that lies for other reasons.
I'm not a liberal in this sense.
Conservatives used to believe that character was destiny.
So when someone says, "I know Trump has bad character, but I'm voting for him anyways," that person wouldn't have been called a Conservative ten years ago. The "let's ignore personal failings and focus on winning or on changing policies" folks were the liberals.
Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike! You are a liberal in almost every sense and you are still missing the point. Conservatives used to believe in honor and integrity, but where has that gotten them? The left lies, misrepresents, and distorts everything all with a compliant legacy media covering for them. You cannot play by the old playbook when your message is unable to reach the masses without being distorted.
(03-29-2024, 07:33 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 10:23 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not a liberal in this sense.
Conservatives used to believe that character was destiny.
So when someone says, "I know Trump has bad character, but I'm voting for him anyways," that person wouldn't have been called a Conservative ten years ago. The "let's ignore personal failings and focus on winning or on changing policies" folks were the liberals.
Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike! You are a liberal in almost every sense and you are still missing the point. Conservatives used to believe in honor and integrity, but where has that gotten them? The left lies, misrepresents, and distorts everything all with a compliant legacy media covering for them. You cannot play by the old playbook when your message is unable to reach the masses without being distorted.
You misunderstand what I mean about character.
Character is not revealed in a campaign speech or a policy proposal. A campaign speech might be uplifting or nasty and it would still say nothing about the character of the person making it. A campaign speech might be 100% facts or mostly lies and still reveal very little about a person's character.
What you would do to get what you want is only a small part of character. It's the part that everyone sees when you're competing. How you take care of what you wanted after you get it is the much larger part and only revealed slowly over time. People with good character tend to have lifelong friends, lifelong employees, and stay married til death if they get married. People with bad character rarely have any of those things.
As someone said more succinctly, character is who you are when no one's looking. But that is revealed over time to the people who know you best.
You're going to "character" us back into feudalism.
(03-29-2024, 08:09 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You're going to "character" us back into feudalism.
You could have picked anyone else with better character to reverse the regression you're seeing.
There will never be a return to feudalism, because feudalism depended on material conditions that will not exist again thanks to technology. I agree there is a danger of a permanent oligarchy forming, if innovation stagnates.
(03-29-2024, 07:58 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 07:33 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike! You are a liberal in almost every sense and you are still missing the point. Conservatives used to believe in honor and integrity, but where has that gotten them? The left lies, misrepresents, and distorts everything all with a compliant legacy media covering for them. You cannot play by the old playbook when your message is unable to reach the masses without being distorted.
You misunderstand what I mean about character.
Character is not revealed in a campaign speech or a policy proposal. A campaign speech might be uplifting or nasty and it would still say nothing about the character of the person making it. A campaign speech might be 100% facts or mostly lies and still reveal very little about a person's character.
What you would do to get what you want is only a small part of character. It's the part that everyone sees when you're competing. How you take care of what you wanted after you get it is the much larger part and only revealed slowly over time. People with good character tend to have lifelong friends, lifelong employees, and stay married til death if they get married. People with bad character rarely have any of those things.
As someone said more succinctly, character is who you are when no one's looking. But that is revealed over time to the people who know you best.
Your definition of character is irrelevant to this discussion. The fact of the matter is conservatives have spent a lifetime turning the other cheek against the blatant lies and dishonesty from the left. So I ask again, “Where has that gotten them?”
For 4 years we heard about the Steele Dossier and Russian collusion which turned out to be a complete and total LIE. Yet due to a compromised media facilitating the DNC’s lie even you still believe there was collusion between DJT and Russia.
Insanity is believing doing the same thing over and over will get you different results. Well conservatives have woken up and are using the left’s playbook against them.
(03-29-2024, 09:07 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 07:58 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You misunderstand what I mean about character.
Character is not revealed in a campaign speech or a policy proposal. A campaign speech might be uplifting or nasty and it would still say nothing about the character of the person making it. A campaign speech might be 100% facts or mostly lies and still reveal very little about a person's character.
What you would do to get what you want is only a small part of character. It's the part that everyone sees when you're competing. How you take care of what you wanted after you get it is the much larger part and only revealed slowly over time. People with good character tend to have lifelong friends, lifelong employees, and stay married til death if they get married. People with bad character rarely have any of those things.
As someone said more succinctly, character is who you are when no one's looking. But that is revealed over time to the people who know you best.
Your definition of character is irrelevant to this discussion. The fact of the matter is conservatives have spent a lifetime turning the other cheek against the blatant lies and dishonesty from the left. So I ask again, “Where has that gotten them?”
For 4 years we heard about the Steele Dossier and Russian collusion which turned out to be a complete and total LIE. Yet due to a compromised media facilitating the DNC’s lie even you still believe there was collusion between DJT and Russia.
Insanity is believing doing the same thing over and over will get you different results. Well conservatives have woken up and are using the left’s playbook against them.
Find any post where I said Trump colluded with Russia. I only ever said it was suspicious.
Stop making things up about me.
(03-29-2024, 09:14 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 09:07 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Your definition of character is irrelevant to this discussion. The fact of the matter is conservatives have spent a lifetime turning the other cheek against the blatant lies and dishonesty from the left. So I ask again, “Where has that gotten them?”
For 4 years we heard about the Steele Dossier and Russian collusion which turned out to be a complete and total LIE. Yet due to a compromised media facilitating the DNC’s lie even you still believe there was collusion between DJT and Russia.
Insanity is believing doing the same thing over and over will get you different results. Well conservatives have woken up and are using the left’s playbook against them.
Find any post where I said Trump colluded with Russia. I only ever said it was suspicious.
Stop making things up about me.
Dude you paint yourself into these corners.. And then complain when you can't get out lolol
(03-29-2024, 09:28 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 09:14 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Find any post where I said Trump colluded with Russia. I only ever said it was suspicious.
Stop making things up about me.
Dude you paint yourself into these corners.. And then complain when you can't get out lolol
Just because I criticized Trump constantly from the beginning doesn't mean I said all the same things that Rachel Maddow said.
(03-29-2024, 09:37 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 09:28 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Dude you paint yourself into these corners.. And then complain when you can't get out lolol
Just because I criticized Trump constantly from the beginning doesn't mean I said all the same things that Rachel Maddow said.
God no.. Not Madcow.
I was thinking more along the lines of NPR which is just as bad.. As much as you quote either an article, podcast oh god knows what else, it's usually an NPR link or talking point.
(03-29-2024, 09:41 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 09:37 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Just because I criticized Trump constantly from the beginning doesn't mean I said all the same things that Rachel Maddow said.
God no.. Not Madcow.
I was thinking more along the lines of NPR which is just as bad.. As much as you quote either an article, podcast oh god knows what else, it's usually an NPR link or talking point.
NPR doesn't do much opinion. They reported on the fact that there were serious allegations about Trump working for Russia, they said they were unproven, and they also pointed out the obvious fact that Putin wanted Trump to win, and also said we don't really know why Putin wanted Trump to win.
Did they report on this too much? Probably. Did they say the allegations were true? Not that I heard.
There is no conservative party, Trump openly admits he's not a conservative so why do you guys get defensive when someone points that out? Trump and MAGA are a populist movement, which is fine but it's not conservative in any way shape or form.
The GOP can no longer argue from the point of morality matters either, they gave that ground up when they signed up with Trump as the king maker. No one can argue Trump is a morale man, you can argue is policies are right leaning and he is better than Biden but he's never been a conservative.
I don't think there's enough of a difference between Tru o and Biden on the important stuff to be matter. Neither of them are going to really address immigration. They both spend like a drunken sailor. They both raised my taxes and cost of living. They both push the mRNA vaccine. They both supported lockdowns that wrecked our economy. Neither of them are morale men. Trump cozzies up to Russia and Biden cozzies up to China neither of them has any credibility on internation relations. I think they're both perverts. Really they're very similar when you look past all the pointless banter each side does.
(03-29-2024, 10:57 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]There is no conservative party, Trump openly admits he's not a conservative so why do you guys get defensive when someone points that out? Trump and MAGA are a populist movement, which is fine but it's not conservative in any way shape or form.
The GOP can no longer argue from the point of morality matters either, they gave that ground up when they signed up with Trump as the king maker. No one can argue Trump is a morale man, you can argue is policies are right leaning and he is better than Biden but he's never been a conservative.
I don't think there's enough of a difference between Tru o and Biden on the important stuff to be matter. Neither of them are going to really address immigration. They both spend like a drunken sailor. They both raised my taxes and cost of living. They both push the mRNA vaccine. They both supported lockdowns that wrecked our economy. Neither of them are morale men. Trump cozzies up to Russia and Biden cozzies up to China neither of them has any credibility on internation relations. I think they're both perverts. Really they're very similar when you look past all the pointless banter each side does.
I agree with all of the bolded, which is what I've been essentially saying for the last 4 years. There is no conservative or liberal movement any longer. You can pine for the old guard if you want to, but they sold out Americans a long time ago. They weren't strong enough to beat the organized left, and the only ones that survived joined the corruption. Everything that is establishment in this country IS left. The populist movement is an attempt to reclaim American identity and purpose. It's at least self-interested. Anyone voting for establishment, be it "conservative" or "liberal," is voting for a corporate oligarchy, which is radical left. Period.
I'm happy to get us back to our roots. I'd be happy to see true conservatives in the mix. That's not going to happen until you beat the establishment left. Trump ain't perfect, but he ain't them.
Without Trump, it would be business as usual in DC..
The corruption would continue on as planned, stealing your money and freedoms. And none of the last 3+ years of corruption would have been exposed. These people hate you. They hate your freedoms and they hate your familes. They want you to suffer and learn to depend on the uniparty machine. All to keep them rich while you suffer..
No thank you.. I'm voting Trump.
(03-29-2024, 11:14 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 10:57 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]There is no conservative party, Trump openly admits he's not a conservative so why do you guys get defensive when someone points that out? Trump and MAGA are a populist movement, which is fine but it's not conservative in any way shape or form.
The GOP can no longer argue from the point of morality matters either, they gave that ground up when they signed up with Trump as the king maker. No one can argue Trump is a morale man, you can argue is policies are right leaning and he is better than Biden but he's never been a conservative.
I don't think there's enough of a difference between Tru o and Biden on the important stuff to be matter. Neither of them are going to really address immigration. They both spend like a drunken sailor. They both raised my taxes and cost of living. They both push the mRNA vaccine. They both supported lockdowns that wrecked our economy. Neither of them are morale men. Trump cozzies up to Russia and Biden cozzies up to China neither of them has any credibility on internation relations. I think they're both perverts. Really they're very similar when you look past all the pointless banter each side does.
I agree with all of the bolded, which is what I've been essentially saying for the last 4 years. There is no conservative or liberal movement any longer. You can pine for the old guard if you want to, but they sold out Americans a long time ago. They weren't strong enough to beat the organized left, and the only ones that survived joined the corruption. Everything that is establishment in this country IS left. The populist movement is an attempt to reclaim American identity and purpose. It's at least self-interested. Anyone voting for establishment, be it "conservative" or "liberal," is voting for a corporate oligarchy, which is radical left. Period.
I'm happy to get us back to our roots. I'd be happy to see true conservatives in the mix. That's not going to happen until you beat the establishment left. Trump ain't perfect, but he ain't them.
He's not perfect, and he's not them, true.
He also threatens to take away your ability to participate in politics without violence, forever. And if you can't participate non-violently, it doesn't matter anymore if you prefer the left or the right.
(03-29-2024, 10:57 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]There is no conservative party, Trump openly admits he's not a conservative so why do you guys get defensive when someone points that out? Trump and MAGA are a populist movement, which is fine but it's not conservative in any way shape or form.
The GOP can no longer argue from the point of morality matters either, they gave that ground up when they signed up with Trump as the king maker. No one can argue Trump is a morale man, you can argue is policies are right leaning and he is better than Biden but he's never been a conservative.
I don't think there's enough of a difference between Tru o and Biden on the important stuff to be matter. Neither of them are going to really address immigration. They both spend like a drunken sailor. They both raised my taxes and cost of living. They both push the mRNA vaccine. They both supported lockdowns that wrecked our economy. Neither of them are morale men. Trump cozzies up to Russia and Biden cozzies up to China neither of them has any credibility on internation relations. I think they're both perverts. Really they're very similar when you look past all the pointless banter each side does.
You keep mispelling moral and it undercuts your message.
(03-30-2024, 09:43 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 10:57 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]There is no conservative party, Trump openly admits he's not a conservative so why do you guys get defensive when someone points that out? Trump and MAGA are a populist movement, which is fine but it's not conservative in any way shape or form.
The GOP can no longer argue from the point of morality matters either, they gave that ground up when they signed up with Trump as the king maker. No one can argue Trump is a morale man, you can argue is policies are right leaning and he is better than Biden but he's never been a conservative.
I don't think there's enough of a difference between Tru o and Biden on the important stuff to be matter. Neither of them are going to really address immigration. They both spend like a drunken sailor. They both raised my taxes and cost of living. They both push the mRNA vaccine. They both supported lockdowns that wrecked our economy. Neither of them are morale men. Trump cozzies up to Russia and Biden cozzies up to China neither of them has any credibility on internation relations. I think they're both perverts. Really they're very similar when you look past all the pointless banter each side does.
You keep mispelling moral and it undercuts your message.
If grammer is your thing don't read my post lol. I'm just a blue collar guy giving my opinion. But thanks for letting me know about the spelling, moral not morale got it!
(03-29-2024, 11:25 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 11:14 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with all of the bolded, which is what I've been essentially saying for the last 4 years. There is no conservative or liberal movement any longer. You can pine for the old guard if you want to, but they sold out Americans a long time ago. They weren't strong enough to beat the organized left, and the only ones that survived joined the corruption. Everything that is establishment in this country IS left. The populist movement is an attempt to reclaim American identity and purpose. It's at least self-interested. Anyone voting for establishment, be it "conservative" or "liberal," is voting for a corporate oligarchy, which is radical left. Period.
I'm happy to get us back to our roots. I'd be happy to see true conservatives in the mix. That's not going to happen until you beat the establishment left. Trump ain't perfect, but he ain't them.
He's not perfect, and he's not them, true.
He also threatens to take away your ability to participate in politics without violence, forever. And if you can't participate non-violently, it doesn't matter anymore if you prefer the left or the right.
When did he put a gun to anyone's head or legislate violence? The problem with people like you and those who did stupid [BLEEP] that day, the blm flunkies, and everyone else like them is you look to someone to tell you what to do. You look to someone to tell you what to think, how to feel, etc., and never take responsibility or ownership for anything. You deflect and deny. This country is full of people like you on both sides of the aisle.
The folks who think for themselves didn't go into the Capitol building, they just stood back and took in the scenery. Those same kind of folks don't fall into the trap of proud boys or black lives matter or any ideology.
Not a damn person is going to tell me who to vote for, what shampoo to buy, or convince me the latest Beyonce album is her best work yet. I have my own mind and I make my own decisions. I vote based on policy, not on likeability. I buy shampoo that works for me and I couldn't care less about Beyonce.
(03-31-2024, 10:40 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2024, 11:25 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]He's not perfect, and he's not them, true.
He also threatens to take away your ability to participate in politics without violence, forever. And if you can't participate non-violently, it doesn't matter anymore if you prefer the left or the right.
When did he put a gun to anyone's head or legislate violence? The problem with people like you and those who did stupid [BLEEP] that day, the blm flunkies, and everyone else like them is you look to someone to tell you what to do. You look to someone to tell you what to think, how to feel, etc., and never take responsibility or ownership for anything. You deflect and deny. This country is full of people like you on both sides of the aisle.
The folks who think for themselves didn't go into the Capitol building, they just stood back and took in the scenery. Those same kind of folks don't fall into the trap of proud boys or black lives matter or any ideology.
Not a damn person is going to tell me who to vote for, what shampoo to buy, or convince me the latest Beyonce album is her best work yet. I have my own mind and I make my own decisions. I vote based on policy, not on likeability. I buy shampoo that works for me and I couldn't care less about Beyonce.
What he did was lie about the election being stolen. That was the most irresponsible thing any President has ever done.
Many more Democrats than Republicans voted by mail, because Trump discouraged Republicans from doing it. In some swing states, Pennsylvania for instance, those mail in ballots could not be counted until the polls closed. So obviously, Biden was going to pick up a lot of votes the next day. Everyone knew this. Then when Biden pulled ahead in places like Pennsylvania, Trump stood in front of the cameras and said, "I was ahead. Now I'm behind. The election is being stolen." But anyone with half a brain knew why Biden picked up all those votes after the polls closed. Trump just made up that crap about the election being stolen. Then he invited his supporters to come to Washington for the "Stop The Steal" rally on January 6, and at that rally, he tells them to march on the Capitol. He told them, falsely, that Mike Pence could stop the certification. He's responsible for what happened.