(08-15-2024, 10:31 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I think we all agree that the line has been neglected, but they did make some improvements, so let's see how it goes for a few games before we write off the whole season.
I've said it a hundred times, but here's 101
The two worst pieces of the five were LG and Center.
THEY ADDRESSED BOTH
Of course, now one of those guys is hurt (again)
Yes, I wanted a draft pick to be spent on IOL, and they didn't do it, but they did acquire multiple o-linemen that have a shot here. They didn't ignore the issues, they just didn't pick the 5th round guy a bunch of fans wanted or whatever.
You can't fix everything in one offseason, but they addressed A LOT of needs. May not have bolstered the guard spots enough as it turns out, but that book isn't written yet either. We'll see...
(08-15-2024, 11:01 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2024, 10:31 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I think we all agree that the line has been neglected, but they did make some improvements, so let's see how it goes for a few games before we write off the whole season.
I've said it a hundred times, but here's 101
The two worst pieces of the five were LG and Center.
THEY ADDRESSED BOTH
Of course, now one of those guys is hurt (again)
Yes, I wanted a draft pick to be spent on IOL, and they didn't do it, but they did acquire multiple o-linemen that have a shot here. They didn't ignore the issues, they just didn't pick the 5th round guy a bunch of fans wanted or whatever.
You can't fix everything in one offseason, but they addressed A LOT of needs. May not have bolstered the guard spots enough as it turns out, but that book isn't written yet either. We'll see...
They also clearly had a very high grade on Maason Smith.
(08-15-2024, 11:10 AM)HardcoreMoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2024, 11:01 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I've said it a hundred times, but here's 101
The two worst pieces of the five were LG and Center.
THEY ADDRESSED BOTH
Of course, now one of those guys is hurt (again)
Yes, I wanted a draft pick to be spent on IOL, and they didn't do it, but they did acquire multiple o-linemen that have a shot here. They didn't ignore the issues, they just didn't pick the 5th round guy a bunch of fans wanted or whatever.
You can't fix everything in one offseason, but they addressed A LOT of needs. May not have bolstered the guard spots enough as it turns out, but that book isn't written yet either. We'll see...
They also clearly had a very high grade on Maason Smith.
And Smith could well turn out to be a godsend in time. Maybe even by end of this year.
Folks seem to forget how our IDL let us down over the latter half of the season last year.
It was important to address both fronts. We're all just collectively agonizing over the possibility of watching the IOL falter and fail again.
(08-15-2024, 11:29 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]https://x.com/PewterReport/status/1824100845056590295
Bucs secondary can't guard BTJ. He might be a problem for defenses earlier than expected.
This is very legit. The Bucs beat writer was saying yesterday, that the Bucs DBs were talking about BT after practice. They had no answer for him
(08-15-2024, 10:31 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I think we all agree that the line has been neglected, but they did make some improvements, so let's see how it goes for a few games before we write off the whole season.
They made one improvement and that’s Morse.
Cleveland was part of the disaster line last year.
They’re banking on everyone being better without Fortner. Now part of that is true because Fortner was atrocious but they did nothing else.
To be fair, Cleveland was a late add to the line last year. He didn’t land on our roster until the end of October, so I don’t really look at him as part of the nightmare we dealt with in 2023.
(08-15-2024, 11:42 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2024, 10:31 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I think we all agree that the line has been neglected, but they did make some improvements, so let's see how it goes for a few games before we write off the whole season.
They made one improvement and that’s Morse.
Cleveland was part of the disaster line last year.
They’re banking on everyone being better without Fortner. Now part of that is true because Fortner was atrocious but they did nothing else.
Fortner whiffing against a 3rd stringer last Saturday where a free defender came barreling down on Mac like a 747 on a clear runway is more evident that he was the primary issue.
It's encouraging to see him and BTJ linking up during practice. Just want to see how that translates in a real contest for all four quarter's. A lot of it is going to hang, naturally of course, on how well or how [BLEEP] this offensive line works.
Just glad it appears we got the right WR for Lawrence. Was glad I was high on him early last year. Everything he did in his highlight reel all translated really well to this level. Virtually all of his TD grabs were tight rope situations with two feet inbounds.
This kid can be special for years to come. This connection could be special for years to come. The more I watch him? The more Reggie Wayne / DaVante Adams type vibes I get from him. Some folks compared him to Brandon Aiyuk, "meh" for me in that regard. I think BTJ is a better pure speed route runner with cleaner release potential, and, if he gets his route tree down? He's more on par with Wayne than anybody in my opinion.
(08-15-2024, 11:42 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2024, 10:31 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I think we all agree that the line has been neglected, but they did make some improvements, so let's see how it goes for a few games before we write off the whole season.
They made one improvement and that’s Morse.
Cleveland was part of the disaster line last year.
They’re banking on everyone being better without Fortner. Now part of that is true because Fortner was atrocious but they did nothing else.
IIRC, didn’t we sign Cleveland knowing he was injured but playable and was expecting more from him after an offseason to heal and rehab?
(08-15-2024, 11:29 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]https://x.com/PewterReport/status/1824100845056590295
Bucs secondary can't guard BTJ. He might be a problem for defenses earlier than expected.
Lloyd caused a pick
"Unguardable." Good gosh.
Although, watching the video, Trevor is holding the ball a long time before throwing that deep pass.
(08-15-2024, 12:00 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2024, 11:29 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]https://x.com/PewterReport/status/1824100845056590295
Bucs secondary can't guard BTJ. He might be a problem for defenses earlier than expected.
Lloyd caused a pick
"Unguardable." Good gosh.
Although, watching the video, Trevor is holding the ball a long time before throwing that deep pass.
Agreed. That's my main concern. Anybody can be un-guardable when your QB has all day to throw and no real, viable threat of a pass rush in his face. I hope they're working on his route running with more slants, drags and underneath stuff now while they can to potentially get around this issue.
He has the speed to outrun everybody, we'll be able to get away with sending him deep here and there, however, I don't trust this current line-up to protect against 6th or 7th blitzer and they're going to need blitz beater hot routes in place to compensate, again, nothing new to this offense based on the past two years.
The deep shot opportunities could be there, as long as the running game is consistent and the play action is truly believable and bite worthy for defenders. Getting sick just thinking about it though.
(08-15-2024, 11:59 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2024, 11:42 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]They made one improvement and that’s Morse.
Cleveland was part of the disaster line last year.
They’re banking on everyone being better without Fortner. Now part of that is true because Fortner was atrocious but they did nothing else.
IIRC, didn’t we sign Cleveland knowing he was injured but playable and was expecting more from him after an offseason to heal and rehab?
Yes.
He got hurt mid-season with the vikings, they signed Risner off the street to replace him and we picked him up in a trade and started him before he was anywhere near 100% because 60% Ezra was better than the 3 other LGs we had failed with thus far.
The hope was he'd return to second round pick/ 74 grade on PFF and the ninth ranked guard in the league type of form.
Now we can only guess whether that would've happened because he's hurt again.
Fingers crossed he heals up sooner than later.
(08-15-2024, 11:01 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2024, 10:31 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I think we all agree that the line has been neglected, but they did make some improvements, so let's see how it goes for a few games before we write off the whole season.
I've said it a hundred times, but here's 101
The two worst pieces of the five were LG and Center.
THEY ADDRESSED BOTH
Of course, now one of those guys is hurt (again)
Yes, I wanted a draft pick to be spent on IOL, and they didn't do it, but they did acquire multiple o-linemen that have a shot here. They didn't ignore the issues, they just didn't pick the 5th round guy a bunch of fans wanted or whatever.
You can't fix everything in one offseason, but they addressed A LOT of needs. May not have bolstered the guard spots enough as it turns out, but that book isn't written yet either. We'll see...
I'm putting this on the books now...they didn't do enough at G. Also when flsprtsfod says, 'I think we all agree that the line has been neglected' doesn't mean they didn't do anything, it means they didn't do nearly enough.
The Oline tempers any enthusiasm we might have for the offense
(08-15-2024, 11:20 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2024, 11:10 AM)HardcoreMoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]They also clearly had a very high grade on Maason Smith.
And Smith could well turn out to be a godsend in time. Maybe even by end of this year.
Folks seem to forget how our IDL let us down over the latter half of the season last year.
It was important to address both fronts. We're all just collectively agonizing over the possibility of watching the IOL falter and fail again.
I get what you’re saying. But if we’re gonna err on one line or the other, I want them to fortify the heck out of the O line. Protect Trevor at all costs. I’d rather lose shoot outs than have my qb and rb dinged up or worse. But that’s just me.
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(08-15-2024, 12:00 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2024, 11:29 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]https://x.com/PewterReport/status/1824100845056590295
Bucs secondary can't guard BTJ. He might be a problem for defenses earlier than expected.
Lloyd caused a pick
"Unguardable." Good gosh.
Although, watching the video, Trevor is holding the ball a long time before throwing that deep pass.
Agreed, we want our QB throwing deep passes immediately at the snap!
(08-15-2024, 09:16 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2024, 09:01 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]we had darft picks in a year that was overflowing with line help, especially on the interior. We had a previously darfted WR/return guy(Washington), signed a WR/return guy(Duvernay), and darfted a KR specialist who's been out of commission(Robinson). We doubled down on DT (not entirely upset over this but it did overspend on one position over the other). There was PLENTY of opportunity to address the matter in a quality way. We chose not to.
Yup. We took Jordan Jefferson over the following offensive lineman:
Offensive Center: Tanor Bortolini
Offensive Center: Sedrick Van Pran
Offensive Guard: Mason McCormick
We took Maason Smith in RD2 over the following offensive lineman:
Offensive Center: Zach Frazier
Offensive Tackle/Guard: Patrick Paul
Offensive Tackle: Roger Rosengarten
Offensive Guard: Kingsley Suamataia
It'll be interesting how all of these players fair as rookies. The Maason Smith selection I can find the most forgiving. All things considered, Smith was once billed a top first round selection and his last year at LSU we slowly started seeing the player he could be in the pass rushing department coming off of his injury. Think he had top honors, or, was at least top three in pressures from his position last year.
It's the Jordan Jefferson selection that kind of surprised me. I was okay with the Javon Foster selection, but, man, I would have been really happy with Bortolini or Van Pran as a potential back-up Center with starting potential, as, they have the traits to start at this level. McCormick was also a guy I liked. I looked at him as this year's Cody Mauch type project.
Either way, if this offensive line continues to backslide in run blocking and they [BLEEP] the bed in pass protection, it'll fall back on this front office and coaching staff resting it's laurel's on just adding Morse via free agency and Foster via the draft.
I do have some hope for Steven Jones though out of Oregon. Was happy to see him picked up as an UDFA. He was out last week with the calf injury, but, it'll be fun seeing him at some point hopefully at 6'5, 340. I believe that would make him one of the biggest, if not, the biggest offensive lineman we currently have on the roster. Something we probably need out there.
Seeing this group of offensive linemen the Jaguars passed on makes me sick. It's always easy to have 20-20 hindsight, but lets look at the off-season moves as things stand now. While it is impossible to correctly evaluate the rookie class at this time, Brian Thomas Jr. looks like a great pick who gives the Jaguars the deep-threat they have been lacking. It wouldn't surprise me if he goes for 800 yds. and 7 touchdowns while opening things up for the other receivers and Etienne. This was a great pick and they landed additional picks to move back as a bonus.
Now for the negative. Maason Smith is a physical specimen who may turn out to be the next Chris Jones. If he does, I will gladly admit my mistake however the need for an interior offensive lineman was much greater. They had already added Armstead and Hamilton was expected to return to his 2022 form following his unfortunate health issues. Zack Frazier is already living up to his very high expectations and may quite possibly beat out Herbig as the starting center. Frazier also played guard his freshman season and could have started his career at this position until Mitch Morse was ready to give it up. Sort of like Brad Meester. Jordon Jefferson could still have been taken in round 4 to help improve the run defense.
Following the mistake in round 2, the Jags added insult to injury in round 4. Jefferson should be a solid nose tackle, but after passing on Frazier in round 2, McCormick or Bertolini had to be the pick in round 4. My preference would have been McCormick who would have contended for a starting spot during his rookie season. The small-school background may hold him back initially, but he has the toughness and other traits necessary for success in the NFL.
As things stand now, the best case scenario for the offensive line is for Ezra Cleveland to become the player the team envisioned when acquiring him from the Vikings. Trevor Lawrence needs Ezra to live up to his name's Hebrew meaning which is "helper." Lord only knows how much help they need on the interior of the offensive line but Ezra has to stay healthy! The rest of the line should be o.k. as long as there are no significant injuries. I just don't have the confidence in Blake Hance that the coaches apparently possess.
While it is likely too late to find significant upgrades at guard, I'd try giving the Steelers a call. They know the importance of the offensive line and have drafted Broderick Jones, Troy Fautanu, Zack Frazier and Mason McCormick during the past 2 drafts. Is it any surprise that they have NOT had a losing season since 2003! They may be willing to part with James Daniels, who was not given a new contract or Nate Herbig who has played mostly guard during his career. While neither player is elite, they would likely be upgrades over the current reserves at guard and could even contend for a starting spot.
Oh no, we dominated today! What will you all have to complain about?
(08-15-2024, 02:04 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2024, 12:00 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]"Unguardable." Good gosh.
Although, watching the video, Trevor is holding the ball a long time before throwing that deep pass.
Agreed, we want our QB throwing deep passes immediately at the snap!
Funny, but you know what I'm talking about. Pass protection questions.