Quote:I'm curious, Marty... What's your definition of a crook. The reason I ask is that I would never vote for a criminal, especially one that I would think is a treasonous criminal that is gonna sell me and my nation out.
Obviously, by the strict standard of innocent until proven guilty, Hillary is not a criminal. And I think are trying to line up your beliefs with the facts and that is why you are using the term "crook" as opposed to "criminal". And I think that's the correct approach.
To me, I think the term "crook" is describing a political animal that has become a corrupted by the game that creates corruption no matter your political affiliation. I think it's clear that no matter what side of the aisle you are on, you the system as it is now set up creates corruption. If you want to be a successful politician in D.C., you have to play the game. And the Clinton's are the best at the game. And therefore have the most dirt on thier jerseys, so to speak.
I agree, with the premise you bring up. It's a choice between a lifetime politician that won't completely sink the ship but is probably going to maintain the status quo, with the help of a republican congress there will be gridlock and things pretty much stay as is. Or we can elect a mad man that has no real policies, flip flops from day to day on everything, and has incited the worst in a lot of his supporters.
Thoughts?
I'm not talking about garden-variety political corruption where a politician changes their position in return for a campaign contribution. What I am talking about is the way Bill and Hillary set out to enrich themselves personally. I cannot see why anyone would pay $500,000 to someone to make a single speech. Apparently Bill and Hillary have gone from "broke" (in her words) when Bill left the White House to a net worth of $100 million. Contrast that with Jimmy Carter who spend his post White House years trying to make the world a better place and not trying to enrich himself in the process. Or better yet, Harry Truman, who just went home to Missouri and could be found in the local diner having a cup of coffee. Or George W Bush, who just went home to Texas and painted pictures. Bill Clinton toured with world with his hand out while his wife was Secretary of State.
I don't think they would sell out the country. I just think they crave money and power, especially money.
But like I said, when the alternative is Trump, I don't feel like I have any choice. I have to vote for a crook, because I feel like Trump would be far, far worse for the country.
2020 cannot come soon enough. Whoever gets elected will be a one-term President. IF they get that far without being impeached. I put a 30% chance that whoever gets elected will get impeached.
Quote:I'm not talking about garden-variety political corruption where a politician changes their position in return for a campaign contribution. What I am talking about is the way Bill and Hillary set out to enrich themselves personally. I cannot see why anyone would pay $500,000 to someone to make a single speech. Apparently Bill and Hillary have gone from "broke" (in her words) when Bill left the White House to a net worth of $100 million. Contrast that with Jimmy Carter who spend his post White House years trying to make the world a better place and not trying to enrich himself in the process. Or better yet, Harry Truman, who just went home to Missouri and could be found in the local diner having a cup of coffee. Or George W Bush, who just went home to Texas and painted pictures. Bill Clinton toured with world with his hand out while his wife was Secretary of State.
I don't think they would sell out the country. I just think they crave money and power, especially money.
But like I said, when the alternative is Trump, I don't feel like I have any choice. I have to vote for a crook, because I feel like Trump would be far, far worse for the country.
2020 cannot come soon enough. Whoever gets elected will be a one-term President. IF they get that far without being impeached. I put a 30% chance that whoever gets elected will get impeached.
OK, so we're pretty close. I agree, the fact that the Clinton's are worth 100 Mil smacks of some sort of corruption. I'm not sure how much that has to do with the Clinton Foundation or not. From my quick googling of thier charity, it seems to do good work and is pretty efficient.
HOWEVER--- The fact that 100 million was earned by them shows there are other things at play that just sullies everything around them. And at this point, even if there was no criminal activity, it's clear that the system is so out of wack that it allows for this type of thing to happen.
Quote:OK, so we're pretty close. I agree, the fact that the Clinton's are worth 100 Mil smacks of some sort of corruption. I'm not sure how much that has to do with the Clinton Foundation or not. From my quick googling of thier charity, it seems to do good work and is pretty efficient.
HOWEVER--- The fact that 100 million was earned by them shows there are other things at play that just sullies everything around them. And at this point, even if there was no criminal activity, it's clear that the system is so out of wack that it allows for this type of thing to happen.
I don't know if there is a direct quid-pro-quo involved, probably Bill Clinton is too smart for that, but probably it's just wealthy interests who say to themselves, "I want to give this guy half a million dollars so he will be my friend. Eventually, I will get something out of that friendship." Make it a speaking fee, so it's not just a gift. Clever, but it smells to high heaven.
But just to reiterate for anyone who is reading this:
Here is the choice: vote for a crook, or vote for Donald Trump. I cannot vote for a thin-skinned, reckless, know-nothing megalomaniac, whose policy prescriptions are all crazy and stupid. Deporting 11 million people, building a wall on the border with Mexico, renegotiating the national debt, refusing to do anything about entitlements, endorsing eminent domain, closing the borders to an entire religion, abandoning our Nato allies- these ideas are all crazy and stupid. Oh, not to mention, encouraging Japan and Saudi Arabia to develop nuclear weapons. Demanding the President of the United States show his birth certificate to prove he's a citizen. The man is a complete idiot. Plus I can't stand the guy personally. He's incredibly irritating.
Quote:I don't know if there is a direct quid-pro-quo involved, probably Bill Clinton is too smart for that, but probably it's just wealthy interests who say to themselves, "I want to give this guy half a million dollars so he will be my friend. Eventually, I will get something out of that friendship." Make it a speaking fee, so it's not just a gift. Clever, but it smells to high heaven.
But just to reiterate for anyone who is reading this:
Here is the choice: vote for a crook, or vote for Donald Trump. I cannot vote for a thin-skinned, reckless, know-nothing megalomaniac, whose policy prescriptions are all crazy and stupid. Deporting 11 million people, building a wall on the border with Mexico, renegotiating the national debt, refusing to do anything about entitlements, endorsing eminent domain, closing the borders to an entire religion, abandoning our Nato allies- these ideas are all crazy and stupid. Oh, not to mention, encouraging Japan and Saudi Arabia to develop nuclear weapons. Demanding the President of the United States show his birth certificate to prove he's a citizen. The man is a complete idiot. Plus I can't stand the guy personally. He's incredibly irritating.
Agreed. It is clever. Hence the perception by most of us that they are "crooks". But again, they are not criminals based on our Constitutionally suported justice system. The clintons are the best at this game. But it's the game that I'm more at odds with. The rules need to be changed, otherwise, the whole system is filled with different shades of crooks with different levels of corruption.
I wish more young people went out and voted in the Democratic primary. But they didn't and we got Clinton. In addition, and this is coming from a Bernie Bro, Bernie Sanders never had a chance. He was un-polished, too disheveled, and just not right for TV to have taken the populist message and beaten Hillary with it. Plus, he never could stay on his message when he had interviews. His message never was fully realized in the media, and it was his fault for that. He had his chances every time he was interviewed. But he couldn't stay on message. The interviewers always tripped him up. That's what you gotta love about trump surrogates. They always circle back to thier talking points, no matter how ridiculous. Bernie could never do that. And it hurt him in the end. He never got any of the Obama/Hillary supporters to switch over in large enough numbers. He just got the millenials and never expanded is democratic base.
Elizabeth Warren - she could have done it. And maybe in 4 years we'll have a more polished politician that can take the true message further. In the mean time, what we have is a decision between the status quo and chaos.
I have to vote for the status quo.
You know what else is crazy and stupid? Importing thousands upon thousands of refugees from a war torn part of the world that our country ripped apart and they may or may not believe in jihad and that suicide bombing is justified. That's stupid.
Quote:You know what else is crazy and stupid? Importing thousands upon thousands of refugees from a war torn part of the world that our country ripped apart and they may or may not believe in jihad and that suicide bombing is justified. That's stupid.
Perhaps. I'm of the opinion that the fact that we are at least partly responsible for what happened, we should try to help.
Dude, those poor refugees need help. I just don't know why we'd turn out back on them. Especially since we kinda destabilized the entire region.
Quote:Perhaps. I'm of the opinion that the fact that we are at least partly responsible for what happened, we should try to help.
Dude, those poor refugees need help. I just don't know why we'd turn out back on them. Especially since we kinda destabilized the entire region.
try to help? HAHAAA
![[Image: Libya-before-and-after2.jpg]](http://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Libya-before-and-after2.jpg)
Hey, maybe STOP ARMING ISIS and trying to overthrow regimes? That might help!
But no, we systematically destroy nation by nation, then import their refugees who are probably not happy about their friends getting blown up, and then say you're a racist if you're against it. COMMON SENSE.
Quote:Care to cite one of the news reports that have the facts on the part in bold from your statement?
There are none.
Par for his course. Belief system founded on the shifting sands of misinformation.
Quote: The reason I ask is that I would never vote for a criminal, especially one that I would think is a treasonous criminal that is gonna sell me and my nation out.
Yet that's precisely what you're planning to do. That's rich.
She has committed crimes for which those close to her have refused to prosecute.
I'm sure you're proud of that, gleeful that there's been no prosecution. Again, make up your own mind. Not someone I would have dinner with, or consider befriending. Corrupt to the core, and uses her power and money to influence keeping herself above the law.
Quote:You don't have google? I'm getting pretty tired of having to teach you everything. I've already educated you on political conventions, statistical analysis, and now you want me to teach you how to google?
C'mon man.
I dare you to try and google. You might be able to actually call me out on being wrong! From my google research, I actually overstated The clinton foundation efficiency by 1% - 9% based on how you interpret efficiency.
So I apologize for being off a bit. Either way, they are rated as a legit charity that gives over 80% of thier money to the work of the charity. Hardly a slush fund.
So I guess the answer is no. It figures that you would say "from mews reports" yet can't cite a single one.