Quote:I have 2 cousins that live in Canada. One in Vancouver and the other north of Winnipeg.
What you describe is not what I hear from them..
My Dad is from WaWa Ontario he left at a very young age but his brother and father both talked about how they had to travel nearly a day away for medical attention or treatment in the 60's. My Uncle who is in a smaller town I believe in NewFoundland somewhere nearly died waiting for life saving surgery when I was younger. My Grandfather was a member of the wrong church and denied a work permit by the only doctor in the mining town who was a member of the right church forcing them to relocate to Wawa in the first place. My Fathers uncle did die waiting for medical treatment in the 80's.
Like I said the urban Canadians LOVE the public health care, it's funded by the state income taxes mostly and almost all of the treatment is focused on highly dense areas. Now the rural Canadians ( a huge minority in Canada) hate it, there's no incentive for the doctors, clinics, or hospitals to even attempt to provide emergency much less routine medicine in the rural areas. It's still a problem today in Canada
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada...-b-c-study
I don't care where in the United States you are, there's medical treatment near by because there's an incentive to practice medicine here. Take that away and you end up with concentrated medicine in urban areas, but that's the plan move everyone into city-states.
Quote:Imagine if you had a decent affordable healthcare like Europe maybe you wouldn't be angry? You guys pay more taxes and expect nothing in return, must be great being your overlords. Maybe demand some public transport too for your money that would probably improve us cities too.
We have states bigger than the economies you're referencing get real. Hell we have states that are more spread out than most of the countries you're referencing. Socialism works fine on micro-scales it's not sustainable on large scales.
Surely private health is just going to price gouge to make a profit in areas of low population? A public health system doesn't need to deliver profits and will supply a better service.
I'm off for a walk, if I get hit by a bus on the way, there is no chance I'm going anywhere but the public hospital. Don't need the stress about how much I'm going to stump up. Although do you guys get a taxi to save ambulance costs?
Quote:Imagine if you had a decent affordable healthcare like Europe maybe you wouldn't be angry? You guys pay more taxes and expect nothing in return, must be great being your overlords. Maybe demand some public transport too for your money that would probably improve us cities too.
There you go again.
a little more on the wait times in Canada, this report is from 2015. Note the waiting time for a GP which is to get a referral for a specialist is 8.5 weeks, from there the wait time to see the specialist is 9.8 weeks. That means if you need a specialist you're waiting about 18 weeks or 4 1/2 months that's last year. Thanks but no thanks.
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/...015-report
Go again what? Spend others money? Do you know how much you put into and cost the tax payer?
Quote:Go again what? Spend others money? Do you know how much you put into and cost the tax payer?
Yes. Keep your hands in your own pockets.
Quote:Surely private health is just going to price gouge to make a profit in areas of low population? A public health system doesn't need to deliver profits and will supply a better service.
I'm off for a walk, if I get hit by a bus on the way, there is no chance I'm going anywhere but the public hospital. Don't need the stress about how much I'm going to stump up. Although do you guys get a taxi to save ambulance costs?
Yes they do, a public health system still has to deliver profits except they call it earnings. They have to produce a threshold of earnings to pay their staff, maintain their facilities, invest in their facilities and equipment ect.....
You're a fool if you think public healthcare isn't cost driven and just simply exist to serve. You know what's the difference between a public and private hospital? at the end of the year the public hospital can't carry over a positive gain in the bank account so it's either "invested into upgrading" their facilities, paid out in bonuses or donate to tax write offs. That's it, they spend all the money they make versus the private hospital is allowed to not spend all the money they make in the year.
What kind of public system is paying bonuses with surplus money? I would expect them in jail. Or are you talking about half baked nationalisation where you just give government money to private firms?
I'll tell you where a lot private health money ends up. Dividends to people like me (I'm a shareholder in a private health firm) not In lowering premiums for its customers.
Quote:If anything, it illustrates the nature of a socialist system. It's essentially "we want to buy this stuff and use a credit card to 'pay' for it". Well, when the credit card bill comes due, they can't pay it because they need to pay for other "needs" such as pensions, the "free" holidays, etc.
It doesn't work.
If you want a real life example, do this. Pay your bills and buy everything with a credit card every month. Buy a few things that are "beyond your means" in the meantime. You know, the latest phone, latest TV, etc. Put it all on the credit card and just pay the minimum balance over a period of say 1 year. My guess is that over the period of that one year, you wouldn't be able to pay off that credit card. You might be able to afford the minimum payment, but it won'd do a dent in the balance that you owe because of the interest.
Now assume that you lost your job and you only have whatever savings that you have to live on and pay your bills. For the first few months, you are alright, but suddenly, the amount of savings is less than the amount on that credit card. There is no possible way to pay the credit card off even if you use all of your savings.
In a very basic way, that's exactly what happened to Greece and is an example of the socialist philosophy.
We have one of the most capitalist systems in the world, yet we are the largest debtor nation on earth.
It's not socialism that's the problem, it's spending more than you earn, on whatever it is. What other nations spend on social programs, we spend on military.
Quote:What kind of public system is paying bonuses with surplus money? I would expect them in jail. Or are you talking about half baked nationalisation where you just give government money to private firms?
I'll tell you where a lot private health money ends up. Dividends to people like me (I'm a shareholder in a private health firm) not In lowering premiums for its customers.
I don't have a problem with it, people that do a good job should get more money but here's some examples.
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local...ge/277136/
Another article explaining why Non-profit hospitals are the most profitable hospitals.
http://www.arbiternews.com/2014/04/08/wh...in-the-us/
<p style="color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:'Open Sans';font-size:15px;">"The requirement that nonprofits reinvest in facilities and expand services gives rise to huge hospital systems that virtually dominate host cities and become the area’s largest employer, with some hospitals bringing in more revenue than what the host city collects in taxes and fees.
<p style="color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:'Open Sans';font-size:15px;">Another way for nonprofits to spend their profits is compensation, with top administrator salaries in the millions of dollars. For example, in 2010 the combined compensation of the top executives at the 25 most profitable non-profit hospitals in the country totaled
$59 million, according to Becker’s Hospital Review"
Quote:What kind of public system is paying bonuses with surplus money?
And this is shows why you don't really understand the situation you're commenting on. The entire ACA is predicated on a bonus system for compensation to providers for quality outcomes.
guys, every country but here is heaven. but we live in hell.
it sucks here. that's why corporations from around the world want to do business here. that's why poor people build rafts out of garbage to float here. that's why poor people swim across rivers to get here. because it sucks here so bad and we need to be like Canada, France, and all the other GREAT places on Earth.
Quote:Like Canada!? Outside of Toronto Canada isn't any socialist meca. Even today it's not common for small outlier towns to have zero access to doctors or healthcare. The wiat for routine medical procedures triples here. Well into the 60 and 70s if you didn't belong to the right church you couldn't work! The cost of living is double here, you my friend are mistaken if you think Canada is a model you want to follow. It's a beautiful country full of hard working peole that have been screwed by authoritarian socialist.
Quote:I have 2 cousins that live in Canada. One in Vancouver and the other north of Winnipeg.
What you describe is not what I hear from them..
It is NOT what its like. Small outlier towns here hve little access to anything. Toronto? Try the whole province of Quebec if you want to compare " socialism" . Been to the emergency room here? Tell me there wasnt a wait/ Double the cost of living? Umm..not even close
Quote:guys, every country but here is heaven. but we live in hell.
it sucks here. that's why corporations from around the world want to do business here. that's why poor people build rafts out of garbage to float here. that's why poor people swim across rivers to get here. because it sucks here so bad and we need to be like Canada, France, and all the other GREAT places on Earth.
Yep.
all we can do is dream. dream that one day, we will be just like a country like France. look at this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel...ourts.html
how can one not want that? it's beautiful and flawless country. gas shortages? people fighting at gas pumps. i mean, that's literally heaven on earth.
please dont come at me with Venezuela talk. This country France has it together clearly. if we can push our policies like they have, we MIGHT one day make America French again.
Quote:
It is NOT what its like. Small outlier towns here hve little access to anything. Toronto? Try the whole province of Quebec if you want to compare " socialism" . Been to the emergency room here? Tell me there wasnt a wait/ Double the cost of living? Umm..not even close
Walk into any emergency room and you get triaged just the same: Not life threatening and not in acute pain? To the back of the queue you go.
Quote:all we can do is dream. dream that one day, we will be just like a country like France. look at this:
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3604632/People-fighting-pumps-Tourists-stranded-France-country-hit-fuel-strike-s-led-violence-forecourts.html'>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3604632/People-fighting-pumps-Tourists-stranded-France-country-hit-fuel-strike-s-led-violence-forecourts.html</a>
how can one not want that? it's beautiful and flawless country. gas shortages? people fighting at gas pumps. i mean, that's literally heaven on earth.
please dont come at me with Venezuela talk. This country France has it together clearly. if we can push our policies like they have, we MIGHT one day make America French again.
Daily Mail not the most respected. But French workers stand up for themselves, isn't that a good thing?
Quote:Daily Mail not the most respected. But French workers stand up for themselves, isn't that a good thing?
We stand up for our right to sit down!