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Actually, there was the thought that based on their tradition they would fight to the last man to avoid defeat. They were warned and we were at war. Pearl harbor was a sneak attack when we were not at war.

Quote:Actually, there was the thought that based on their tradition they would fight to the last man to avoid defeat. They were warned and we were at war. Pearl harbor was a sneak attack when we were not at war.

There certainly was the idea of that in the Japanese high command. Whether the emperor would actually go through with it is debatable. The problem was the planning and counter planing of the invasion of Japan (Operation Downfall). Operation Downfall called for an invasion on Japan southern island of Kyūshū in order to tie up forces there and to then invade Honshu to capture Tokyo and the imperial family in order to force a surrender. Problem with this plan was that it was blindingly obvious to anyone with even a basic understanding of military strategy. The Japanese knew what was coming and they went all-in to stop it, and at this point they still had 4 million soldiers stationed in the home islands.

 

Estimates on casualty figures vary wildly depending on what assumptions were made but there seems to have been a slight consensus that conquering the Japanese home islands through conventional warfare would result in 500,000 to 1,000,000 American dead, a multitude of that wounded. Japanese dead, both military and civilian, would have been even higher. Even without the fight to the death displayed in earlier battles.

Obummer needs to apologize to his own country before apologizing to any other.

Quote:Obummer needs to apologize to his own country before apologizing to any other.

He's waiting for you first.

Quote:If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.

Like you would notice. You do all your own diagnosises on webmd, remember?

Quote:Really it was a sad event in human history. I think the consensus (I'm no war historian or expert by any means) is that it ended the war sooner than later at the cost of less lives.... The innocence of those lives lost should never be forgotten but neither should the result of the actions taken. I can't even imagine having to make a decision of the magnitude. 

 

You really have no idea how evil the Japanese were back then do you?  Not only to their adversaries, but also towards their own people.

Quote:You really have no idea how evil the Japanese were back then do you? Not only to their adversaries, but also towards their own people.

Yeah those kids that were incinerated and the others that suffered for years before they ultimately died were totally devils.


Just wow... that is the worst rationalization EVER. I just don't even know what you're trying to say...

In elementary school I found this text book that was discussing wwii and I read the chapter dropping the bombs on Japan. It discussed the horrors of the decision.


There was a picture that I can still see in my head. It was in black and white, and it was a silhouette of a mother and daughter against this wall of a building that was partially knocked down.


The caption of the picture was something like, the blast was so bright and so hot the shadow of these two victims has been permanently burned into this building.


That picture affected me for a long time. I don't care how evil a government is, no woman and her child deserve that kind of death.

Quote:Yeah those kids that were incinerated and the others that suffered for years before they ultimately died were totally devils.


Just wow... that is the worst rationalization EVER. I just don't even know what you're trying to say...

Quote:In elementary school I found this text book that was discussing wwii and I read the chapter dropping the bombs on Japan. It discussed the horrors of the decision.


There was a picture that I can still see in my head. It was in black and white, and it was a silhouette of a mother and daughter against this wall of a building that was partially knocked down.


The caption of the picture was something like, the blast was so bright and so hot the shadow of these two victims has been permanently burned into this building.


That picture affected me for a long time. I don't care how evil a government is, no woman and her child deserve that kind of death.

 

You really have no idea do you?

 

How about picking up a book that describes what the Japanese did to POW's?

 

In Albuquerque, there used to be a hospital named Bataan.  Where did that name come from?

 

As always, there are two sides to every story.  So why the atomic bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki?  How many mothers and daughters were slaughtered during the attack on Perl Harbor?

Dude, where did I say the American victims are to be ignored?

Quote:Dude, where did I say the American victims are to be ignored?

 

Well you seem to be so concerned about the "horrors" of the decision to drop the bomb(s) on the Japanese people, yet fail to consider the horrors of what happened to actual Americans.  The Japanese people were not exactly the same as they are in today's world.

 

Let me bring my "tone" down a bit.  The Japanese people and government were very cruel back then.  There was a standing order for all U.S. POW's to be killed in the event of an invasion.  That almost happened.

 

Yes, dropping the bombs cost many civilian casualties, but the alternative would have been much worse.  That's what happens when a country is at war.

 

Tell me, how many women and children were incinerated of died in England, France, etc. during that war?

Lol, why so defensive? Just a quick reminder, one can recognize the horror of a nuclear bomb causing civilian death, while still understanding that our side also had deaths of innocents, while *not demonizing* the entire population in order to justify the nuclear attack.


I'm not sure why you are taking my statements to mean I'm callous to the things the Japanese empire did. But I affirm that the evils of a government is not a worthy rationalization to kill innocents. On either side.

Quote:You really have no idea how evil the Japanese were back then do you?  Not only to their adversaries, but also towards their own people.

 

Sometime I wonder if you even read things through before you reply based on assumptions you have about the person you are replying to.

 

Quote:Well you seem to be so concerned about the "horrors" of the decision to drop the bomb(s) on the Japanese people, yet fail to consider the horrors of what happened to actual Americans.  The Japanese people were not exactly the same as they are in today's world.

 

Let me bring my "tone" down a bit.  The Japanese people and government were very cruel back then.  There was a standing order for all U.S. POW's to be killed in the event of an invasion.  That almost happened.

 

Yes, dropping the bombs cost many civilian casualties, but the alternative would have been much worse.  That's what happens when a country is at war.

 

Tell me, how many women and children were incinerated of died in England, France, etc. during that war?

Yes the dropping of atomic bombs were not horrific. We better use quotation marks as if it wasn't. I'm surprised you didn't use your classic strikeout to really drive home your "point". 

 

The second bolded is basically what I said. Just in different words that I assumed anyone other than Missjagsfan would have understood. 

 

Ask yourself this. Why are some innocent humans less important to you than other innocent humans and why are you being so antagonistic?

Quote:In elementary school I found this text book that was discussing wwii and I read the chapter dropping the bombs on Japan. It discussed the horrors of the decision.


There was a picture that I can still see in my head. It was in black and white, and it was a silhouette of a mother and daughter against this wall of a building that was partially knocked down.


The caption of the picture was something like, the blast was so bright and so hot the shadow of these two victims has been permanently burned into this building.


That picture affected me for a long time. I don't care how evil a government is, no woman and her child deserve that kind of death.

In other news, Japan signs the tripartite treaty aligning itself with the extermination of all Jews.


Also, the oppressed people of north Korea living in hell on earth are glad there are no shadows on the buildings they are trapped in with little to no food.

Quote:Lol, why so defensive? Just a quick reminder, one can recognize the horror of a nuclear bomb causing civilian death, while still understanding that our side also had deaths of innocents, while *not demonizing* the entire population in order to justify the nuclear attack.


I'm not sure why you are taking my statements to mean I'm callous to the things the Japanese empire did. But I affirm that the evils of a government is not a worthy rationalization to kill innocents. On either side.

The only thing worse than war is loosing.

War is hell, boys. War is hell.

Quote:Sometime I wonder if you even read things through before you reply based on assumptions you have about the person you are replying to.

 


Yes the dropping of atomic bombs were not horrific. We better use quotation marks as if it wasn't. I'm surprised you didn't use your classic strikeout to really drive home your "point". 

 

The second bolded is basically what I said. Just in different words that I assumed anyone other than Missjagsfan would have understood. 

 

Ask yourself this. Why are some innocent humans less important to you than other innocent humans and why are you being so antagonistic?

Because they were our enemy, so, not innocent.

Quote:Also, the oppressed people of north Korea living in hell on earth are glad there are no shadows on the buildings they are trapped in with little to no food.

 

Which has relevance how?

Quote:Because they were our enemy, so, not innocent.

 

That viewpoint certainly makes waging war an easier prospect to swallow.

Quote:That viewpoint certainly makes waging war an easier prospect to swallow.

Forgive me if I dont care about those who attacked us. They earned what they got in spades. Considering that both my grandfathers would've been involved in that invasion, I can't express my gratitude for those two bombs.