Quote:I still think Jack is the guy we're targeting. Showing "interest" in Buckner could make both the Chargers and Cowboys think twice about trading back if he's the number 1 player on their boards.
What do we care if the Chargers or Cowboys trade back?
If we draft Buckner i might break something. How many 3 technique DT do we need?
Quote:What do we care if the Chargers or Cowboys trade back?
Because at this point teams could be looking to trade up to have their pick of the best defensive player in the draft. If you (Jags) have your sights set on Ramsey/Jack and the Chargers are content with Buckner and they believe he'll be available at picks 6-9 you make them think twice that the player they believe will be available might be gone at #5.
Quote:If we draft Buckner i might break something. How many 3 technique DT do we need?
He's 6'7, 290 and plays great against the run and is very disruptive when it comes to pass rushing, he isn't pigeon-holed into 3T. If we make our front 7 be more agressive and don't keep it strictly as more of stopping the run and having our corners play lockdown defense, he'd make sense. Wash will make this defense more agressive rushing the passer, we'll see just how much. If we take him, we obviously think he's VERY talented and can be an elite player, and we have a role in mind. We wouldn't just pick him to move Marks/Odrick to the side.
My rankings on players from a pure talent perspective go as:
Ramsey
Jack
Buckner
Bosa
Lawson
At least when we're talking about the top defensive players here. Buckner I view in that tier with Ramsey and Jack as elite talents, if Dave views it similarly then you take that talent and go. We need more elite talent on this defense. People keep saying "We need to get Norman, we need to get Suh last year, etc.). If we can get an elite talent, IDC where it's at, you do it and let him be a main building block on defense.
I'd PREFER Bosa due to fit, but Buckner is a special talent. There's no doubt about it.
Quote:He's 6'7, 290 and plays great against the run and is very disruptive when it comes to pass rushing, he isn't pigeon-holed into 3T. If we make our front 7 be more agressive and don't keep it strictly as more of stopping the run and having our corners play lockdown defense, he'd make sense. Wash will make this defense more agressive rushing the passer, we'll see just how much. If we take him, we obviously think he's VERY talented and can be an elite player, and we have a role in mind. We wouldn't just pick him to move Marks/Odrick to the side.
He's very good. No one has said otherwise. But besides splitting time with Marks/Odrick/Malik, where else is he going to play? If we're looking to add additional depth you can do that outside of your top 5 pick.
Alfie touched on this and it's one of the few times I agree with him:
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2016/4/21/11481408/keep-an-eye-on-jaguars-and-deforest-buckner-says-pete-prisco?utm_campaign=bigcatcountry&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter'>http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2016/4/21/11481408/keep-an-eye-on-jaguars-and-deforest-buckner-says-pete-prisco?utm_campaign=bigcatcountry&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter</a>
Quote:Because at this point teams could be looking to trade up to have their pick of the best defensive player in the draft. If you (Jags) have your sights set on Ramsey/Jack and the Chargers are content with Buckner and they believe he'll be available at picks 6-9 you make them think twice that the player they believe will be available might be gone at #5.
I don't know. I find it hard to believe a team is trading up into the top 5 to draft a cornerback or linebacker with knee issues. I'd think it would more likely be Tunsil.
Quote:He's very good. No one has said otherwise. But besides splitting time with Marks/Odrick/Malik, where else is he going to play? If we're looking to add additional depth you can do that outside of your top 5 pick.
Alfie touched on this and it's one of the few times I agree with him:
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2016/4/21/11481408/keep-an-eye-on-jaguars-and-deforest-buckner-says-pete-prisco?utm_campaign=bigcatcountry&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter'>http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2016/4/21/11481408/keep-an-eye-on-jaguars-and-deforest-buckner-says-pete-prisco?utm_campaign=bigcatcountry&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter</a>
I get the whole "fit" perspective, but if you think he's elite you don't pass on him. If you are either worried about Jack's knee (doubt it), or Bosa you think is just going to be very good but never a building block level piece on defense, and you think Buckner is, you don't pass on an elite talent for a very good. We need help rushing the passer on defense. We need disruptive playmakers. If Buckner is that, then go ahead and take him. IDC where he plays if he will do that in his career.
If this guy is a guy you think will be an all-pro player at the NFL level, are you seriously telling me that you would pass on him? We haven't had a player like that on defense in forever. IDC if we have solid pieces at those positions. We rotate defensive lineman a ton. If we have Buckner, Fowler, Malik, Sen, etc. going at the passer next year and for years to come this defense is going to have a seriously good pass rush if Fowler and Buckner live up to their expectations.
I get it, Bosa is a better fit, but if we take Buckner than Wash/Bradley/Caldwell obviously think they can get all these playmakers in often. They wouldn't take him if they didn't think they could all get enough snaps here.
Quote:I get the whole "fit" perspective, but if you think he's elite you don't pass on him. If you are either worried about Jack's knee (doubt it), or Bosa you think is just going to be very good but never a building block level piece on defense, and you think Buckner is, you don't pass on an elite talent for a very good. We need help rushing the passer on defense. We need disruptive playmakers. If Buckner is that, then go ahead and take him. IDC where he plays if he will do that in his career.
If this guy is a guy you think will be an all-pro player at the NFL level, are you seriously telling me that you would pass on him? We haven't had a player like that on defense in forever. IDC if we have solid pieces at those positions. We rotate defensive lineman a ton. If we have Buckner, Fowler, Malik, Sen, etc. going at the passer next year and for years to come this defense is going to have a seriously good pass rush if Fowler and Buckner live up to their expectations.
I get it, Bosa is a better fit, but if we take Buckner than Wash/Bradley/Caldwell obviously think they can get all these playmakers in often. They wouldn't take him if they didn't think they could all get enough snaps here.
Unless they plan on making massive changes to this scheme then it would be a wasted pick by us and a waste of Buckner's talents.
At best he starts in the "Big End" role and he's asked to play run stuffer the majority of the time neutralizing his ability as a pass rusher. Or he rotates with Jackson/Marks etc which again is a waste of a pick and his talent. No one spends a top 5 pick with the idea he'll be effective in a rotational role. It's just not realistic.
Quote:Unless they plan on making massive changes to this scheme then it would be a wasted pick by us and a waste of Buckner's talents.
At best he starts in the "Big End" role and he's asked to play run stuffer the majority of the time neutralizing his ability as a pass rusher. Or he rotates with Jackson/Marks etc which again is a waste of a pick and his talent. No one spends a top 5 pick with the idea he'll be effective in a rotational role. It's just not realistic.
That's what i'm saying, changes would obviously occur because we wouldn't spend a #5 pick on a guy that would just play run stuffer. That's what I'm saying. If we took him we'd obviously have a plan with him, and we wouldn't be picking him to get rid of another guy.
I think you are underrating the changes that Wash will likely bring. Not like it's going to be totally different, but I expect a good amount of changes, especially when it comes to aggressiveness.
If you think he is an immense talent, then you get him regardless of scheme fit. Chances are Gus and his crew will be gone anyways.
Get a guy that is scheme versatile and a stud in multiple formations.
That being said, I think Bosa or Ramsey should be the pick if they are available.
Quote:If we draft Buckner i might break something. How many 3 technique DT do we need?
Did you want Leonard Williams last year?
Quote:Did you want Leonard Williams last year?
To be fair, we didn't have Malik last season. There's more of a logjam at DT/LDE now.
Quote:To be fair, we didn't have Malik last season. There's more of a logjam at DT/LDE now.
That is fair, but to threaten to break something is a bit much when he's basically the same player.
if we don't get Ramsey, It's starting to look like it could possibly be Buckner. Sounds like Jack may be off their board based on the knee....
But, really no one knows a thing and this could all be started by the Jags.
Quote:That is fair, but to threaten to break something is a bit much when he's basically the same player.
if we don't get Ramsey, It's starting to look like it could possibly be Buckner. Sounds like Jack may be off their board based on the knee....
But, really no one knows a thing and this could all be started by the Jags.
Would you expect any different reaction? :teehee:
Buckner is the most complete and safest pick out of the top players could be a stroud or Henderson
What makes the biggest improvement to our team? Drafting Buckner and having Odrick be a rotational guy or drafting Jack and have him play LB/SS? IMO it's the latter and I'd think Caldwell would feel the same based on him being a needs drafter. Jack fills a way bigger need.
Quote:He's 6'7, 290 and plays great against the run and is very disruptive when it comes to pass rushing, he isn't pigeon-holed into 3T. If we make our front 7 be more agressive and don't keep it strictly as more of stopping the run and having our corners play lockdown defense, he'd make sense. Wash will make this defense more agressive rushing the passer, we'll see just how much. If we take him, we obviously think he's VERY talented and can be an elite player, and we have a role in mind. We wouldn't just pick him to move Marks/Odrick to the side.
The bottom line is, he'll make our defense better and really at the end of the day all of the pieces we've added and with Fowler returning, we 'should' be much improved.
Also, 6'7"? My goodness.
Quote:The bottom line is, he'll make our defense better and really at the end of the day all of the pieces we've added and with Fowler returning, we 'should' be much improved.
Also, 6'7"? My goodness.
Buckner's a freak.
Honestly, this is starting to feel more and more like Fowler last year, and Joeckel a couple years ago. Buckner has kind of been that guy people talk about but no one seriously thinks its him, and John O keeps putting Buckner's name out there everytime he gets a chance to do it. Now Prisco came out and said he is one of the main targets. Buckner just said in an interview we have been one of the most agressive teams with him.
I think this is our pick guys. I guess we'll see. What I suggest to all of you people that dislike Buckner as being the pick, go on youtube and watch his full game tape, not highlights. This guy is immnesely talented. If Dave picks him, he has a plan in mind to get all these guys on the field plenty. Wouldn't take Buckner just to get an upgrade on an already solid starter in Odrick. He wouldn't do this JUST to get a solid backup behind Malik. If he's chosen, he thinks he'll be a disruptive force that can help our pass rush.
Quote:Buckner's a freak.
Honestly, this is starting to feel more and more like Fowler last year, and Joeckel a couple years ago. Buckner has kind of been that guy people talk about but no one seriously thinks its him, and John O keeps putting Buckner's name out there everytime he gets a chance to do it. Now Prisco came out and said he is one of the main targets. Buckner just said in an interview we have been one of the most agressive teams with him.
I think this is our pick guys. I guess we'll see. What I suggest to all of you people that dislike Buckner as being the pick, go on youtube and watch his full game tape, not highlights. This guy is immnesely talented. If Dave picks him, he has a plan in mind to get all these guys on the field plenty. Wouldn't take Buckner just to get an upgrade on an already solid starter in Odrick. He wouldn't do this JUST to get a solid backup behind Malik. If he's chosen, he thinks he'll be a disruptive force that can help our pass rush.
he would also fit the mold with what Caldwell said that "we are going to get a solid player, may not be a household name but we'll get a good player at 5"