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Quote:Chrimeny you're being obtuse. I'm not anti-tax, I am anti-waste and government enforced charity is waste. I'm opposed to Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and the Trillions of other dollars spent on useless social "wars" to prop up corruption in high places.

We just fundamentally disagree. Social programs, in my opinion are what make America great.


You mention corruption, but I'm not sure exactly what corruption you're talking about.


In my mind the corruption is between the government getting bought out and then doing the bidding for the wealthy.


There's no level of corruption that is happening between the government and the poor that comes close to what's happening top...

Quote:We just fundamentally disagree. Social programs, in my opinion are what make America great.


You mention corruption, but I'm not sure exactly what corruption you're talking about.


In my mind the corruption is between the government getting bought out and then doing the bidding for the wealthy.


There's no level of corruption that is happening between the government and the poor that comes close to what's happening top...

 

You're only seeing part of the picture.  The politicians who are bought are simultaneously engineering a meltdown of the economy.  One of the ways you can do this is encouraging people to be freeloaders.  These programs are designed in such a way that encourages laziness.  I'm not against helping people, the problem is the programs are designed poorly... and that's not by accident.

 

I mentioned this in the bit about the bad water in Michigan.  The elites who own this country want you on welfare.  They want you to stay poor and abort your babies.

Sorry, double post...

Quote:You're only seeing part of the picture.  The politicians who are bought are simultaneously engineering a meltdown of the economy.  One of the ways you can do this is encouraging people to be freeloaders.  These programs are designed in such a way that encourages laziness.  I'm not against helping people, the problem is the programs are designed poorly... and that's not by accident.

 

I mentioned this in the bit about the bad water in Michigan.  The elites who own this country want you on welfare.  They want you to stay poor and abort your babies.

 

Almost like they want you on a...plantation.

Quote:We just fundamentally disagree. Social programs, in my opinion are what make America great.

 

Social program are an impediment to what makes America great, ie the will to achieve and succeed.

Not to mention, they are flawed in nature. FICA text just enough money to make it extremely hard for working people to save independently. That wouldn't be as egregious if they allowed beneficiaries to experience Market participation. Comfortable private sector risk management vehicles and open-ended investment companies have destroyed the FICO model. It's like stealing a dollar and then having someone be thankful you gave them back a quarter. For the overwhelming majority of potential investors they would have immediately vested savings and retirement income easily three to four times what the government provides without potentially bankrupting the nation.

Quote:Almost like they want you on a...plantation.

 

I'd say they actually don't need workers.  They need you to just not be here.  That's why they push very hard the man-made climate change agenda.  Man is the problem, therefore people will be conditioned to support population control.  The elite openly dream about the future world which will be much less populated.  They want to "cut the fat" so to speak.

 

There are several ways to do this and we see them employing most ways.  For example, another very large war would help.  The elites who start the wars won't actually be participating, only the poor who are drafted or have no choice but to sign up.

40 million dead as a result of the planned parenthood agenda.

Quote:40 million dead as a result of the planned parenthood agenda.

 

and they park the clinics in low income areas.  i guess that's because the "corrupt politicians" are actually just nice people really concerned with the poor's "health".

Quote:You're only seeing part of the picture. The politicians who are bought are simultaneously engineering a meltdown of the economy. One of the ways you can do this is encouraging people to be freeloaders. These programs are designed in such a way that encourages laziness. I'm not against helping people, the problem is the programs are designed poorly... and that's not by accident.


I mentioned this in the bit about the bad water in Michigan. The elites who own this country want you on welfare. They want you to stay poor and abort your babies.

I'm not sure a social program makes a person a freeloader. I think within a population, a certain percentage of that population will be freeloaders... whether there are social programs or not.


However, the vast majority of people are workers. Now, that's not to say people within a population are not lazy...


Matter of fact, I'd say that most humans are lazy. However, the vast majority of the population is prideful and do not want handouts.


Why are we punishing, and in some cases despising, people that need assistance based on 5-8 percent of the population that are freeloaders?


It just doesn't make sense to me...

Quote:Social program are an impediment to what makes America great, ie the will to achieve and succeed.

Sorry, I just don't buy that. A tiny fraction of a population, you are correct about.


The vast majority of the population wants to work and be successful.


Stop being brainwashed by politicians!

Quote:I'm not sure a social program makes a person a freeloader. I think within a population, a certain percentage of that population will be freeloaders... whether there are social programs or not.


However, the vast majority of people are workers. Now, that's not to say people within a population are not lazy...


Matter of fact, I'd say that most humans are lazy. However, the vast majority of the population is prideful and do not want handouts.


Why are we punishing, and in some cases despising, people that need assistance based on 5-8 percent of the population that are freeloaders?


It just doesn't make sense to me...

 

Who's getting punished?

 

It's common sense. if you give somebody money for not working, why work?  What doesn't make sense is you saying politicians are corrupt, but thinking the programs they invented are somehow gratuitous and out of kindness.

Quote:Sorry, I just don't buy that. A tiny fraction of a population, you are correct about.


The vast majority of the population wants to work and be successful.


Stop being brainwashed by politicians!

Welfare fraud is nothing compared to Pentagon Waste in any case.  For some reason though conservatives never seem concerned about that.

Quote:Sorry, I just don't buy that. A tiny fraction of a population, you are correct about.


The vast majority of the population wants to work and be successful.


Stop being brainwashed by politicians!

 

So you're saying that all those people using social programs are unable to fend for themselves? That feels more like social conditioning to me.

Quote:Who's getting punished?


It's common sense. if you give somebody money for not working, why work? What doesn't make sense is you saying politicians are corrupt, but thinking the programs they invented are somehow gratuitous and out of kindness.

Are you aware how most of our welfare programs work? Most people are NOT getting straight cash... just fyi...


Most "welfare" is in the form of food stamps. Not exactly something that will help a person live a comfortable life... also, Clinton made it so you can't collect unemployment for more than 2 years... Medicaid is only for healthcare and is also not cash handouts...


News flash --


Most people ARE WORKING!!!! They are just making very low wages and are being subsidized by the government because the major employers of the usa are paying wages that a family cannot live on, even though these companies are making huge profits.


How can you not see the reality that is right in front of you?

Quote:So you're saying that all those people using social programs are unable to fend for themselves? That feels more like social conditioning to me.

Nope, that's not what I said. I am pointing out that the vast majority of people want to work and are not "twits" or freeloaders... despite what some fools may have been brainwashed to believe.

<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Benton Sans', Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">Below is the results of the "welfare" programs and the % of people on them...  Notice that these programs are not cash for chillin' in the cut and being "twits"... and smoking weed.  (Happy 4/20  :thumbsup: )

<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Benton Sans', Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Benton Sans', Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">"The highest participation rates were for 15.3 percent for Medicaid, medical insurance for poor people, and 13.4 percent for the food stamp program known as Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program.

<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Benton Sans', Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">Some 4.2 percent received housing assistance, 3 percent Supplemental Security Income, and 1 percent welfare under programs known as Temporary Assistance for Needy Families and General Assistance.

<p class="" style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Benton Sans', Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">The Census Bureau said there was no statistically significant change from 2011, when the overall rate was 20.9 percent. It was 18.6 percent in 2009."

<p class="" style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Benton Sans', Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/ind...gover.html

This article is from the Wall Street Journal, for crying out loud!

 

"The study found that 56% of federal and state dollars spent between 2009 and 2011 on welfare programs — including Medicaid, food stamps and the Earned Income Tax Credit — flowed to working families and individuals with jobs. In some industries, about half the workforce relies on welfare.

 

When companies pay too little for workers to provide for their families, workers rely on public assistance programs to meet their basic needs,” said Ken Jacobs, chairman of the university’s Center for Labor Research and Education and one of the report’s authors.

 

More than half of front-line fast-food workers receive some form of government assistance.

<p style="font-size:16px;font-family:'Chronicle SSm', serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);">Pay for those workers has received significant attention recently. Fast-food workers have held several protests and strikes over the past year. And earlier this month, McDonald’s said it would raise pay for 90,000 of its lowest-paid employees at company-operated stores.

<p style="font-size:16px;font-family:'Chronicle SSm', serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);">Among other fields, 48% of home-care workers and 25% of part-time college faculty also receive government assistance.

<p style="font-size:16px;font-family:'Chronicle SSm', serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);">The report bolsters the long-standing contention that taxpayers are subsidizing low-wage employers."

<p style="font-size:16px;font-family:'Chronicle SSm', serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);">http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/04/1...-have-one/

Quote:So you're saying that all those people using social programs are unable to fend for themselves? That feels more like social conditioning to me.

 

Where you're tripping up (imo) is by using the word "all" when the correct phrasing would be "some." Broad generalizations about any specific group of people is never a good way to engage in discussion. That's the thing I think we all can agree on. Some of the people within the system abuse it but not all. How do we help those who aren't while wedding out/cutting off those who do?

Quote:The report bolsters the long-standing contention that taxpayers are subsidizing low-wage employers."

<p style="font-size:16px;font-family:'Chronicle SSm', serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);">http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/04/1...-have-one/

 

Yes, we should stop that subsidy immediately.