Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Full Version: Fox News Republican Debate
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Quote:I'll give you this much.  It was pretty clear that FOX News was going after Trump.  The thing is, they were armed with actual facts.  It's kind of tough for Trump to debate actual facts when they come out.  They also went after Rubio as well as Cruz with equally tough questions.  How effective was that?  We will see.

 

I challenge people to actually look up the facts regarding Trump University as well as the hotel that he owns in south Florida.  I suspect that the facts that came out in the debate are probably pretty damaging.  Does Trump really mean what he says?

 

In all honesty, I thought that John Kasich put forth the best and most sensible argument.  I had written him off a long time ago, but he does have a point... actually several points that I agree with.  I'm thinking that he is going to be the eventual "dark horse" in the race.

 

At any rate, the bottom line is selecting a candidate that can beat Hillary Clinton in the general election.  I don't think that Trump can do it, but any of the other three contenders can.
If the party actually got behind Trump, there is definitely a chance he can beat Hilary. But the party is so stubborn, they won't get behind the guy who the people actually want and are trying to bring him down. If they do, they're pretty much handing the keys to Hilary. 

 

The GOP is more concerned about "conservatism" or whatever instead of what the people want.

 

To quote Megadeth, "It's still We, the People, right?"
Quote:If the party actually got behind Trump, there is definitely a chance he can beat Hilary. But the party is so stubborn, they won't get behind the guy who the people actually want and are trying to bring him down. If they do, they're pretty much handing the keys to Hilary. 

 

The GOP is more concerned about "conservatism" or whatever instead of what the people want.

 

To quote Megadeth, "It's still We, the People, right?"
 

The GOP will get behind Trump.  Because in spite of all their talk about their "principles," they are still basically whores. 
Quote:The GOP will get behind Trump.  Because in spite of all their talk about their "principles," they are still basically whores.


And not the 5th ave types..more like the Philips Hwy...tweakers
Quote:If the party actually got behind Trump, there is definitely a chance he can beat Hilary. But the party is so stubborn, they won't get behind the guy who the people actually want and are trying to bring him down. If they do, they're pretty much handing the keys to Hilary. 

 

The GOP is more concerned about "conservatism" or whatever instead of what the people want.

 

To quote Megadeth, "It's still We, the People, right?"
 

GOP concerned about conservatism? lol in what world? 
Quote:If the party actually got behind Trump, there is definitely a chance he can beat Hilary. But the party is so stubborn, they won't get behind the guy who the people actually want and are trying to bring him down. If they do, they're pretty much handing the keys to Hilary. 

 

The GOP is more concerned about "conservatism" or whatever instead of what the people want.

 

To quote Megadeth, "It's still We, the People, right?"
 

This is actually the funniest part of the whole thing.  In reality, most of his expressed policies are pretty center right and very much in line with conservative orthodoxy.  Even Building the wall is just enforcing laws already passed by congress.  

 

It would be one thing for them to just endorse a more traditional establishment candidate, but sending out the last nominee to badmouth the guys sex life from the 60's based on little real disagreement lets me further know that their real fear is that they won't own him!
Quote:This is actually the funniest part of the whole thing.  In reality, most of his expressed policies are pretty center right and very much in line with conservative orthodoxy. 
 

 

His expressed "policies" change all the time.  He's endorsed the Obamacare mandate, he's for economic protectionism, anti- free trade, and he's said he will not do anything about entitlements.    Those are not "center right" policies, those are liberal positions.  
Quote:His expressed "policies" change all the time.  He's endorsed the Obamacare mandate, he's for economic protectionism, anti- free trade, and he's said he will not do anything about entitlements.    Those are not "center right" policies, those are liberal positions.  
 

1.) He did not endorse the Obamacare mandate.  He has said repeatedly that the government should not force someone to buy a product that he doesn't want.  He has also said that he doesn't want people dying in the streets because they can't afford coverage.  His approach is negotiating easements with care providers to take care of the indigent.  

 

2.) He's not anti-free trade.  He's anti us getting ripped off.  Both Parties have been talking about the artificial manipulation of china's currency.  We can't continue to play against a stacked deck while we surrender our jobs and production base to other countries and get little in return.  As he has correctly stated, Countries like China already have punitive regulations, duties, and Tarriffs on AMERICAN GOODS being imported into their countries.  That's not free trade, that's just handing over money and jobs.  

 

3.) I see you harping on this entitlement theme pretty hard.  I take it that means that you wrote in Paul Ryan for your primary vote?  At current the labor force participation rate is at its lowest rate in about 40%.  That means you have a lot less people paying fica/self employment taxes.  If you grow the economy you have more people earning a paycheck to pay into the system.  We have also had relatively stagnant GDP growth for the last decade or so.  We have to grow the pie.  

 

Also, We know for a fact that we waste something close to 60 billion dollars a year on medicare.  That's what the governments own numbers say.  If you cut that number in half and negotiate better deals on care being provided to such a large group of beneficiaries you can bring the program back into solvency.  

 

Moreover, i would love to hear the candidate that has expressed a plan to abolish entitlement spending in their first year in office.  I mean because obviously every candidate in this race both Democrat and Republican have released 12 thousand page proposals on bringing medicare medicaid and social security to an end within 4 years of them taking office right? 
Quote: 

Moreover, i would love to hear the candidate that has expressed a plan to abolish entitlement spending in their first year in office.  I mean because obviously every candidate in this race both Democrat and Republican have released 12 thousand page proposals on bringing medicare medicaid and social security to an end within 4 years of them taking office right? 
 

Nobody wants to abolish it.   What we need to do is rein it in.   Medicare will bankrupt the country if it is not dealt with.  
Ok i have told u the cobcepts that Trump has expressed to grow the economy, bring prople back into the labor force, increaes revenues to medicare medicaid and social security as well as controlling prices of drugs and provision of services through more aggressive collective bargaining.


What changes would u like to see and which candidate do you see as an example of a more aggressive approach on entitlement reform.
Quote:Nobody wants to abolish it. What we need to do is rein it in. Medicare will bankrupt the country if it is not dealt with.


I want to abolish it.
I dunno I guess Ted Cruz won the last debate, but he isn't the best candidate to defeat the Democrats.


I see Ted Cruz more like Nixon, awkward not liked by the press.  He is very far right which wins in a primary but usually loses in a general election.  You simply need to look at the states where democrats can vote in the Republican primary to see that he gets the least amount of votes, ( * Rubio tends to do well in Democrat areas, but Trump gets the majority of republicans thus winning those states).

 

I would see Cruz as being a conservative (Libertarian) dream vote but Trump being the most likely to win it all kind of like Reagan (in that of getting blue collar votes) but I would say that he really is more like a Teddy Roosevelt in his harsh manliness ways.

 

Trump    =  Teddy Roosevelt

Cruz       =  Richard Nixon

Rubio     =  John Kerry

Hilary      =  Obama 

Sanders =  Karl marx

Kasich    = Bill Clinton

Quote:I dunno I guess Ted Cruz won the last debate, but he isn't the best candidate to defeat the Democrats.


I see Ted Cruz more like Nixon, awkward not liked by the press.  He is very far right which wins in a primary but usually loses in a general election.  You simply need to look at the states where democrats can vote in the Republican primary to see that he gets the least amount of votes, ( * Rubio tends to do well in Democrat areas, but Trump gets the majority of republicans thus winning those states).

 

I would see Cruz as being a conservative (Libertarian) dream vote but Trump being the most likely to win it all kind of like Reagan (in that of getting blue collar votes) but I would say that he really is more like a Teddy Roosevelt in his harsh manliness ways.

 

Trump    =  Teddy Roosevelt

Cruz       =  Richard Nixon

Rubio     =  John Kerry

Hilary      =  Obama 

Sanders =  Karl marx

Kasich    = Bill Clinton
 

First off, the "far right" have done a lot better in the general elections than the moderates. Reagan won big, the less conservative Bush 43 barely, while moderates Ford, Dole, McCain and Romney all lost. Moderate Bush 41 won on Reagan's coattails, but lost the reelection.


 

Secondly, your equals list presumably compares candidates by how they are viewed by superficial voters (e.g. "awkward"). But Sanders = Karl Marx appears to be pure ideology although I'm not familiar with how Marx fared in public forums, or if he was even ever out in public.


 

And some are poor comparisons. Cruz is a lot more polished than Nixon was. Kasich is very vanilla, while Clinton was charismatic. Likewise Obama was charismatic while Hillary is ... well she's the Nixon in this race.

Reagan wasn't a far right conservative he was a democrat governor of California before switching to a Republican candidate for President.  He was most likely a moderate.

Bush sr. was more conservative but being Reagan's VP for 8 years surely helped him out.

 

McCain was a huge moderate along with Bob Dole (age really hurt them), but Romney was an establishment guy whom made a huge gaffe with the 41 percent comment.

 

Is Bush Jr considered a moderate?  I mean he's more conservative than McCain & Dole, maybe not as much as his father was....

I would argue he was very conservative coming out in his first election but tried to become more moderate by his 2nd term.

 

I dunno about the comparisons it was more for fun... like on draft day...

 

I do think that Cruz is a lot like Nixon, even down to the appearance factor.... and the sneaky political tricks... I almost wonder if they are related it is so much alike.

Quote:Reagan wasn't a far right conservative he was a democrat governor of California before switching to a Republican candidate for President.  He was most likely a moderate.

Bush sr. was more conservative but being Reagan's VP for 8 years surely helped him out.

 

McCain was a huge moderate along with Bob Dole (age really hurt them), but Romney was an establishment guy whom made a huge gaffe with the 41 percent comment.

 

Is Bush Jr considered a moderate?  I mean he's more conservative than McCain & Dole, maybe not as much as his father was....

I would argue he was very conservative coming out in his first election but tried to become more moderate by his 2nd term.

 

I dunno about the comparisons it was more for fun... like on draft day...

 

I do think that Cruz is a lot like Nixon, even down to the appearance factor.... and the sneaky political tricks... I almost wonder if they are related it is so much alike.
 

From most to least conservative" Reagan, Bush 43, Romney, Dole, Bush 41, McCain.


 

I'd put Nixon just ahead of McCain on that list. Nixon wasn't elected based on his conservative-liberal positions, but almost entirely on his Vietnam war stance (or more accurately, the opposition to the positions of his opponents). In the current climate, I'd rate Cruz and Rubio both as more conservative than Reagan, Kasich about equal to Romney, Trump most similar to Nixon politically.


 

Reagan may have been governor of California (1967-1975), but California in the 1970's was not the leftist bastion it is today. California went three times for Nixon.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un...s_by_state
Quote:Reagan wasn't a far right conservative he was a democrat governor of California before switching to a Republican candidate for President.  He was most likely a moderate.
 

 

Reagan became a Republican in 1962.   He became Governor of California in 1966.  


People forget The Gipper was a huge proponent of "The New Deal" and was the president of the actor's guild (Union)


I say forget, but the reality is conveniently ignore.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9