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Quote:The 15th and 19th Amendments say otherwise

No they don't they say what can't be used as a reason to prevent participation but no where is there a defined right to vote.

Is clean water and air a right?

Quote:Is clean water and air a right?

No you are not guaranteed clean water it comes out of the ground dirty having it cleaned comes at a cost to someone.

Quote:Is clean water and air a right?

No.

Quote:It was also perpetuated by overzealous paranoids on the right who presume transgenders are by definition child molesters. We have a shining example of such willful ignorance right here in this thread.

The issue isn't transgenders, its true sexual criminals who will inevitably use this to exploit innocents for their personal gratification.

Quote:No they don't they say what can't be used as a reason to prevent participation but no where is there a defined right to vote.

It speaks of a "right of citizens" to vote in each amendment. Ergo, it acknowledges a right to vote exists.


I am a political neutral, who does not vote with no dogs in this fight. I just enjoy history and the intrigue of court battles. I just feel from a strictly detached viewpoint, when the amendments spoke of that right to vote, they acknowledged well...a right to vote.

Quote:It speaks of a "right of citizens" to vote in each amendment. Ergo, it acknowledges a right to vote exists.


I am a political neutral, who does not vote with no dogs in this fight. I just enjoy history and the intrigue of court battles. I just feel from a strictly detached viewpoint, when the amendments spoke of that right to vote, they acknowledged well...a right to vote.

I can copy it if you like but the 15th amendment clearly states that the right to vote can not be abridged by anyone based on race color or previous servitude. It doesn't say everyone had a right to vote.


The qualifications for voting has changed numerous times from landowners to white males to males to all genders and so on each one adding more and more people to the fold. But none of them specifically establish a universal right to vote. Voting is an act of participation a civic duty hell a responsibility but not a right.


The law as it is today says we can't prevent participation based upon race color servitude gender religion or ability to pay.

Quote:I can copy it if you like but the 15th amendment clearly states that the right to vote can not be abridged by anyone based on race color or previous servitude. It doesn't say everyone had a right to vote.

The qualifications for voting has changed numerous times from landowners to white males to males to all genders and so on each one adding more and more people to the fold. But none of them specifically establish a universal right to vote. Voting is an act of participation a civic duty hell a responsibility but not a right.

The law as it is today says we can't prevent participation based upon race color servitude gender religion or ability to pay.

No law anywhere, anytime delineates every right you possess. If what you say is true then you do not have the right to do much of anything at all in this country.

Quote:Is clean water and air a right?

 

I think it is, in the sense of the old saying "your rights end at the point of my nose."   Since air and water is naturally clean, and pollution comes from someone else's activities, then if someone else pollutes the air or the water, they are infringing on your rights.  

Quote:No.

 

Conversely, then, does one have the right to pollute the air or the water?   Does the local factory have the right to pollute the air that I breathe?  

Quote:The issue isn't transgenders, its true sexual criminals who will inevitably use this to exploit innocents for their personal gratification.

 

They can do it already. The only way to prevent it is a genitalia screening of every person before entering a bathroom. It is a ridiculous red herring.

 

Meet Buck Angel, born with and still has female reproductive organs and genitalia. You are telling me you are more comfortable with Buck using the same restroom as your wife than the one you use. Buck is not the outlier you may suspect.

 

Quote:The issue isn't transgenders, its true sexual criminals who will inevitably use this to exploit innocents for their personal gratification.

 

Why wouldn't that kind of person just dress  up as a woman and go in the ladies' room?  Law or no law?  

 

The answer is, because there's nothing to see in there.   It's all bathroom stalls.    It aint no garden of earthly delights. 

 

(At least, that's what I've been told.)

Quote:Why wouldn't that kind of person just dress  up as a woman and go in the ladies' room?  Law or no law?  

 

 

That wouldn't work in a public shower. But changing the law by creating a special right for transgenders males that forces gyms to allow men access to women's locker rooms does.

Quote:I can copy it if you like but the 15th amendment clearly states that the right to vote can not be abridged by anyone based on race color or previous servitude. It doesn't say everyone had a right to vote.


The qualifications for voting has changed numerous times from landowners to white males to males to all genders and so on each one adding more and more people to the fold. But none of them specifically establish a universal right to vote. Voting is an act of participation a civic duty hell a responsibility but not a right.


The law as it is today says we can't prevent participation based upon race color servitude gender religion or ability to pay.

Right those amendments specifically outline those parameters. But the fact they used "the right of citizens to vote", emphasis on the word "right", they acknowledged that such a right existed in the first place. Now whether that's what was intended or not by the drafters who knows. But from a scholarly point of view, they put it there and opened the doors to saying it was a right instead of a privilege.

I go back to what I said earlier.  The issue is complicated.   No matter what law is passed, whether it's yes you can, or no you can't, the outcomes are strange and unpredictable.    So I think the best thing would be to let the states pass their own laws.   That way, in 10 years, we can look at the outcomes in various states and say, hey, they did it this way and it worked out great.   And then go from there. 

If you need the government to tell you which bathroom to use...

 

save the oxygen for the rest of us putting it to good use.

 

Jiminy x-mas!

Quote:Is clean water and air a right?

 

Nope.

Quote:It was also perpetuated by overzealous paranoids on the right who presume transgenders are by definition child molesters. We have a shining example of such willful ignorance right here in this thread.

There will be ignorant folks on either side of the aisle.

 

Here are my issues...

 

Government empowerment for deciding personal life matters. Also interfering with state's rights to govern themselves.

Setting precedent here allows for the government to reference this matter to over reach on another.

 

And I take issue with the idea that we're all worried transgenders are child molesters. That isn't it at all.

You open a door for weirdos to use the transgender or "gender identity" laws to their benefit.

 

And you can fire back with how few people would... but 1 is too many in my book. Anyone with children should have the concern. And if you're not concerned... well hope its your kid and not mine.

It's not just child molestors though. What if some crusty dude who likes to rape grown women "identifies" as female and can just waltz into any ladies room...

Suppose you're OK with that too? Cuz we wouldn't want to offend this dude who thinks he's a woman for the sole purpose of taking advantage of women.

 

Yeah... I'm sure those people don't exist.

Quote:Is clean water and air a right?

Not where I'm from.

Quote:There will be ignorant folks on either side of the aisle.

 

Here are my issues...

 

Government empowerment for deciding personal life matters. Also interfering with state's rights to govern themselves.

Setting precedent here allows for the government to reference this matter to over reach on another.

 

And I take issue with the idea that we're all worried transgenders are child molesters. That isn't it at all.

You open a door for weirdos to use the transgender or "gender identity" laws to their benefit.

 

And you can fire back with how few people would... but 1 is too many in my book. Anyone with children should have the concern. And if you're not concerned... well hope its your kid and not mine.

It's not just child molestors though. What if some crusty dude who likes to rape grown women "identifies" as female and can just waltz into any ladies room...

Suppose you're OK with that too? Cuz we wouldn't want to offend this dude who thinks he's a woman for the sole purpose of taking advantage of women.

 

Yeah... I'm sure those people don't exist.

 

If this is really your concern, how can you, in good conscience, allow any of your children use a public restroom alone? Because this could happen now.

 

If you do, your concern is a bunch of hogwash.