Quote:Agree, though I could handle Finn using the saber since it was clear that stormies get training with melee weapons. The girl, though, was either a case of plot hole (the same with the Leia hug...they didn't know each other) or Ren is just a weak Sith. Strength in the Force doesn't mean you start at a Master level like that. I know they are constrained by the limited number of hours for the movies, but everything just moves too fast. It feels rushed.
Rey definitely didn't know Leia but if Leia is an offspring of Luke than Leia might know who Rey is.
Rey will fall to the Dark Side by killing Ren. Book it.
Quote:Death Star right down to how it's destroyed and the laser firing sequence, Tattoine, Hoth, Endor, Trench Run, Obi Wan/Han Death Scene, Jawas, Family drama, Cantina scene, overly large holographic communications, Darth Vader mask/voice modulator similarities, BB8 battle plans/map similarity (just needed a Poe hologram), all too much like 4 and 5 for my comfort.
So what you're basically saying is, it was too Star Wars for a Star Wars film.
Rich.
You seemed to have completely missed everything that made this one unique and special.
We saw it today and it was ok. I've never been a huge fan of the Star Wars movies to be honest but I think this one ranks among the better ones. Acting is very good and I think in particular Adam Driver gives a pretty nuanced performance. Seeing the original actors was interesting (the crowd cheered each time an old character would come on the screen). A couple of surprises, plenty of action, and the special effects were terrific. They were obviously setting up some sequels but that shouldn't be a surprise. Just don't think *to* hard when you're watching it and you'll have a great time.
Quote:So what you're basically saying is, it was too Star Wars for a Star Wars film.
Rich.
You seemed to have completely missed everything that made this one unique and special.
No, I'm saying it was the
same Star Wars film.
What do you consider unique and special?
Just saw the movie. I'm a fan of the very first 3 movies, watch them as a kid and my parents buying me the space ships and action figures for xmas in the very early 80's. I have to say, reviewers, media, over hyped this movie. Average. Nothing that I haven't seen before. Almost a remake of the 1977, The New Hope. The new bad guy, Kylo Ren, disappointing. Sounds, acts like a mental, anger issues spoiled brat rich kid baby. Talks like a wussy with and without the mask.
Love love LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!!!
Wow. Just wow. These were the things we were looking for from the prequels.
Quote:No, I'm saying it was the same Star Wars film.
What do you consider unique and special?
The depth they put into some of the "old" characters. There was more Han "backstory" exposed in his current story than the first six combined (we actually see the "pirate" who was a pirate in name only in his element.)
There was much more expansion of the family problems that merely scratched the surface in 5 and 6. Due to better writing, the Han/Ren relationship was better developed in a single scene than the Luke/Vader relationship was across the previous two films.
The stuffiness created by Lucas' inability to write dialogue was turned on it's head with the humor and well written script with the collaboration of Kasdan and Abrams. You see this in one of the very first scenes when Poe is interviewed by Ren. Did you not realize Abrams/Kasdan used it as the Han/Greedo cantina scene? There were so many examples of this (bringing the old current, but in a brand new way) it's hard to count them all. Loved the quip about garbage compactors - brilliant! It was also critical to show how Stormtroopers really are accurate shots as Obi Wan suggested but were never proven to be in the first films, and are shown to be much more brutal than those in the previous movies with the First Order. They're also shown to be smarter than previously advertised, with not only Finn taking a stand leaving the Order, but also the two guards who knew when to make themselves scarce when Ren is having a meltdown.
The bridging of the old and new characters was masterfully weaved. Finn aiding Chewie, who returned the favor - bringing acceptance and care for the new blood of the resistance. Rey being guided by a mystic to the force as Luke was by Yoda, but given an entirely new and perhaps even more important mission - to bring Luke back from exile. Not to face a parent or save the galaxy alone as Luke was tasked. A matured Han Solo who now knows how to answer the call when needed by his friends most, as he teaches Finn that lesson by example.
Sure, if you just look at it on the surface and not actually have a deeper understanding of the film - sure, you might call it the "same." But if you do, then you didn't absorb a single thing the new story accomplished. Funny how everyone who loved the movie can write on and on and on about it, but those who are critical can't come up but with few simple one liners. No, it's not the same story, and we could keep going on for days explaining why. Same universe, new problems, new storylines. Unlike Star Trek, a masterful and necessary reboot - yet without disrupting the continuation of the same franchise instead of simply starting it over and over again (Spiderman, Superman, etc...) It was important that they kept the same storyline going instead of tossing it all out and starting over. That would have been a flat out disaster, as most reboots outside the Batman franchise have been.
Quote:Just saw the movie. I'm a fan of the very first 3 movies, watch them as a kid and my parents buying me the space ships and action figures for xmas in the very early 80's. I have to say, reviewers, media, over hyped this movie. Average. Nothing that I haven't seen before. Almost a remake of the 1977, The New Hope. The new bad guy, Kylo Ren, disappointing. Sounds, acts like a mental, anger issues spoiled brat rich kid baby. Talks like a wussy with and without the mask.
That's entirely the point. Put someone like that in a position of leadership and power and he's a reckless danger. (We should know.)
Quote:The depth they put into some of the "old" characters. There was more Han "backstory" exposed in his current story than the first six combined (we actually see the "pirate" who was a pirate in name only in his element.)
There was much more expansion of the family problems that merely scratched the surface in 5 and 6. Due to better writing, the Han/Ren relationship was better developed in a single scene than the Luke/Vader relationship was across the previous two films.
The stuffiness created by Lucas' inability to write dialogue was turned on it's head with the humor and well written script with the collaboration of Kasdan and Abrams. You see this in one of the very first scenes when Poe is interviewed by Ren. Did you not realize Abrams/Kasdan used it as the Han/Greedo cantina scene? There were so many examples of this (bringing the old current, but in a brand new way) it's hard to count them all. Loved the quip about garbage compactors - brilliant! It was also critical to show how Stormtroopers really are accurate shots as Obi Wan suggested but were never proven to be in the first films, and are shown to be much more brutal than those in the previous movies with the First Order. They're also shown to be smarter than previously advertised, with not only Finn taking a stand leaving the Order, but also the two guards who knew when to make themselves scarce when Ren is having a meltdown.
The bridging of the old and new characters was masterfully weaved. Finn aiding Chewie, who returned the favor - bringing acceptance and care for the new blood of the resistance. Rey being guided by a mystic to the force as Luke was by Yoda, but given an entirely new and perhaps even more important mission - to bring Luke back from exile. Not to face a parent or save the galaxy alone as Luke was tasked. A matured Han Solo who now knows how to answer the call when needed by his friends most, as he teaches Finn that lesson by example.
Sure, if you just look at it on the surface and not actually have a deeper understanding of the film - sure, you might call it the "same." But if you do, then you didn't absorb a single thing the new story accomplished. Funny how everyone who loved the movie can write on and on and on about it, but those who are critical can't come up but with few simple one liners. No, it's not the same story, and we could keep going on for days explaining why. Same universe, new problems, new storylines. Unlike Star Trek, a masterful and necessary reboot - yet without disrupting the continuation of the same franchise instead of simply starting it over and over again (Spiderman, Superman, etc...) It was important that they kept the same storyline going instead of tossing it all out and starting over. That would have been a flat out disaster, as most reboots outside the Batman franchise have been.
There was better writing overall I'll agree there. I also love how they went about making the storm troopers a force to reckon with. I think my main problem was the villian which i'm not sure was possible to do correctly and how easy it was for people to use the force without training. I understand them being able to swing a lightsaber a bit. Although in the starwars universe I have always liked the characters that were powerful despite not having powers. ex: Lando, Han, Chewie
it set the stage for what should be an interesting episode VIII
Quote:I think my main problem was the villian which i'm not sure was possible to do correctly and how easy it was for people to use the force without training.
It was clear to me the purpose here was to show how strong the force was with Rey. Not implausible given her demonstrated instincts and resourcefulness, and unrevealed bloodlines. She's shown to be a quick study. I mean, she was able to diagnose and fix the Falcon's problem that Han and Chewie had "rigged" and dealt with for decades.
The villain is flawed and conflicted, which I thought they did a very good job demonstrating. I saw in him a character done right, where the same opportunity was done wrong with Anakin in the prequels due to poor dialogue and writing.
Quote:There was better writing overall I'll agree there. I also love how they went about making the storm troopers a force to reckon with. I think my main problem was the villian which i'm not sure was possible to do correctly and how easy it was for people to use the force without training. I understand them being able to swing a lightsaber a bit. Although in the starwars universe I have always liked the characters that were powerful despite not having powers. ex: Lando, Han, Chewie
it set the stage for what should be an interesting episode VIII
I mean, let's not forget that Ren had gotten a bowcaster bolt to the gut just a few minutes prior to having to fight Rey and Finn, not to mention the mental anguish he was probably going through after finally bringing themself to turn fully to the dark.
Quote:I mean, let's not forget that Ren had gotten a bowcaster bolt to the gut just a few minutes prior to having to fight Rey and Finn, not to mention the mental anguish he was probably going through after finally bringing themself to turn fully to the dark.
You just killed your dad, what are you going to do next? I'm going to Disneyland!
Totally agree. Plus, I thought the writing/directing/planning really shined through during the battle. All three had very distinctly different fighting styles, and they were clearly apparent on film. Kudos to the fight choreographers and stunt department for nailing it.
Quote:The depth they put into some of the "old" characters. There was more Han "backstory" exposed in his current story than the first six combined (we actually see the "pirate" who was a pirate in name only in his element.)
There was much more expansion of the family problems that merely scratched the surface in 5 and 6. Due to better writing, the Han/Ren relationship was better developed in a single scene than the Luke/Vader relationship was across the previous two films.
The stuffiness created by Lucas' inability to write dialogue was turned on it's head with the humor and well written script with the collaboration of Kasdan and Abrams. You see this in one of the very first scenes when Poe is interviewed by Ren. Did you not realize Abrams/Kasdan used it as the Han/Greedo cantina scene? There were so many examples of this (bringing the old current, but in a brand new way) it's hard to count them all. Loved the quip about garbage compactors - brilliant! It was also critical to show how Stormtroopers really are accurate shots as Obi Wan suggested but were never proven to be in the first films, and are shown to be much more brutal than those in the previous movies with the First Order. They're also shown to be smarter than previously advertised, with not only Finn taking a stand leaving the Order, but also the two guards who knew when to make themselves scarce when Ren is having a meltdown.
The bridging of the old and new characters was masterfully weaved. Finn aiding Chewie, who returned the favor - bringing acceptance and care for the new blood of the resistance. Rey being guided by a mystic to the force as Luke was by Yoda, but given an entirely new and perhaps even more important mission - to bring Luke back from exile. Not to face a parent or save the galaxy alone as Luke was tasked. A matured Han Solo who now knows how to answer the call when needed by his friends most, as he teaches Finn that lesson by example.
Sure, if you just look at it on the surface and not actually have a deeper understanding of the film - sure, you might call it the "same." But if you do, then you didn't absorb a single thing the new story accomplished. Funny how everyone who loved the movie can write on and on and on about it, but those who are critical can't come up but with few simple one liners. No, it's not the same story, and we could keep going on for days explaining why. Same universe, new problems, new storylines. Unlike Star Trek, a masterful and necessary reboot - yet without disrupting the continuation of the same franchise instead of simply starting it over and over again (Spiderman, Superman, etc...) It was important that they kept the same storyline going instead of tossing it all out and starting over. That would have been a flat out disaster, as most reboots outside the Batman franchise have been.
Recognizing the need to bridge between the old and new doesn't mean you have to tell the story the exact same way. Creative writing would give us something other than another attack on a Death Star. Your own examples show the issue, why do we need another cantina scene? Why do we need to bring the old current by simply reshooting it with modern technology? If we're going to tell the story then the story should be more original. Again, I liked the film, the story is just overly repetitive.
Quote:Recognizing the need to bridge between the old and new doesn't mean you have to tell the story the exact same way. Creative writing would give us something other than another attack on a Death Star. Your own examples show the issue, why do we need another cantina scene? Why do we need to bring the old current by simply reshooting it with modern technology? If we're going to tell the story then the story should be more original. Again, I liked the film, the story is just overly repetitive.
But they DID NOT tell the story the exact same way.
I'm sorry you couldn't get past thinking that enough to enjoy it more, but it's simply not true. They recreated some familiar elements for the next generation to enjoy in new contexts, but it was not repetition of the same.
My mention of the cantina was re: the verbal exchange between Ren and Poe. Poe asked who goes first... a nice reflection on the past (did Han or Greedo shoot first) but not a repetition of it.
One of my favorite parts is when Han suggest throwing the commander (can't remember her name) in the trash compactor. That part had me rolling.
Quote:There was better writing overall I'll agree there. I also love how they went about making the storm troopers a force to reckon with. I think my main problem was the villian which i'm not sure was possible to do correctly and how easy it was for people to use the force without training. I understand them being able to swing a lightsaber a bit. Although in the starwars universe I have always liked the characters that were powerful despite not having powers. ex: Lando, Han, Chewie
it set the stage for what should be an interesting episode VIII
After seeing it a second time, I believe Luke has planned all this. I believe Rey was separated to keep her safe, the same way Luke and Leia were separated from Vader.
I think he felt all was lost unless he could be found by someone worthy of helping take the fight back against Ren's disciples (who, like he, defected from the Jedi and became Sith under his direction.) Leverage and timing, as he was taught by Yoda and Obi Wan, that things could only be set right when the proper circumstances call for it.
Here's another thought...
We know Luke has been guided by Jedi who have passed away and now appear as spirits.
Who's to say that the Sith can't do the same? Or... aren't currently doing the same?
Snoke may be more than a holograph... he also may be the spirit of a powerful, Sith from long ago. His appearance (Sith deteriorate over time) would suggest he's quite old... perhaps older than Yoda.
Quote:Here's another thought...
We know Luke has been guided by Jedi who have passed away and now appear as spirits.
Who's to say that the Sith can't do the same? Or... aren't currently doing the same?
Snoke may be more than a holograph... he also may be the spirit of a powerful, Sith from long ago. His appearance (Sith deteriorate over time) would suggest he's quite old... perhaps older than Yoda.
There's a theory that he's actually Darth Plagueis, the Sith Lord that trained Palpatine. It makes sense, assuming they can explain how he survived Palpatine's assassination attempt. Abrams' denial of that possibility means nothing: this is the guy who spent a year insisting that John Harrison was not Khan.