Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Cheeseburgers just don't get any respect...

Quote:Cheeseburgers just don't get any respect...

 

Everyone loves cheeseburgers...  But a tacks fan that tries to come of has a Jags fan is just pathetic...  

Quote:Believe it. I've seen this franchise trot out worse QBs hoping they would 'turn the corner' or 'take that next step' while it never happens. But that never stops a lot of posters from deluding themselves and making every possible excuse to defend him. Every excuse made for Bortles now was made for Gabbert then, and so on for every other. Maybe if we had only given him a little more time? But the drops, and the play-calling, and the offensive line, and the defense, and everybody, and everything but him. When do you bite the bullet and call a spade a spade?

 

If Bortles doesn't show considerable improvement by the end of the season, the team will have to seriously begin to re-evaluate the QB position.

 

You have no clue.  All you had to do was mention Bortles and Gabbert in the same sentence to prove it.

 

Thanks for your input.

Quote:In his 2nd year, Vince Young had both a higher YPA and completion percentage than Bortles has in his 2nd year. In an era where passing stats are no where near inflated as they are today. Let that sink in for a bit. 

So you just proved that those stats can't be relied on to determine the quality of a QB.

Quote:Don't take shots at my intelligence, It was a simple oversight. In case you didn't notice I was responding do many people at once. Aikman and Steve Young? That's the best you could do? Aikman was another mediocre QB carried by the talent around him, his BEST season was 23 TDS: 14 INTS and 3,000+ yards. If not for the talent around him, he would not nearly be as successful, he got into the HoF because he was a 'winner,' something very foreign to Bortles. Young struggled with injuries in his early career and spent a lot of time as a fill in for Montana. His first full season starting and healthy he lead the league in TD passes and won MVP. Different eras of football. But sure, I'll grant you Steve Young.

 

That makes for ONE QB in the past 30 years who has gone from bad to HoF. If anything all you've done is prove the point that bad players can get better. How does any of this suggest that Bortles will turn it around and become an elite QB? The odds are not on his side.

So was it Geno that was the next legend, or Bridgewater?

Quote:Don't take shots at my intelligence, It was a simple oversight. In case you didn't notice I was responding do many people at once. Aikman and Steve Young? That's the best you could do? Aikman was another mediocre QB carried by the talent around him, his BEST season was 23 TDS: 14 INTS and 3,000+ yards. If not for the talent around him, he would not nearly be as successful, he got into the HoF because he was a 'winner,' something very foreign to Bortles. Young struggled with injuries in his early career and spent a lot of time as a fill in for Montana. His first full season starting and healthy he lead the league in TD passes and won MVP. Different eras of football. But sure, I'll grant you Steve Young.


That makes for ONE QB in the past 30 years who has gone from bad to HoF. If anything all you've done is prove the point that bad players can get better. How does any of this suggest that Bortles will turn it around and become an elite QB? The odds are not on his side.

The very first qb on the top of my head took 5 years to hit a 60% completion rate, and he has 2 rings. Another guy from the same division took the league by storm year 1, 3 years later he's a third string qb. So that's the first 2 examples I could think of, maybe you should do some research? How about looking for guys who light it up year 1 then tanked? Bet the results are the same or close to the other way around.

Quote:... Or Marcus Mariota, 8 TDs 2 INTs in three games with a worse supporting cast of offensive talent than Bortles.

 

 

Is the Jaguars supporting cast really that much better? Bortles only has two legitimate targets in ARob and Hurns out there, and yet over the past three weeks he's maintained a 7.0 YPA and has thrown 5 TDs with only 1 INT. He's also showing to be among the qbs currently excelling when under pressure or being blitzed, when using play action, and when throwing deep. Really the only area where Bortles has been slacking is his completion percentage, and that's what this thread is particularly addressing.

Every QB deals with dropped passes. You can't just add up all the dropped balls and say this is what his percentage should be. If you did it with him you'd have to do it with every other QB and he'd be looking almost as bad in comparison. It's kinda like how every team thinks THEY have the worst injury situation.

you guys are falling hard for the trollbait

Have some time this morning to look at numbers of current top quarterbacks

Brees took 4 years to become a top qb (he did complete 60.8% in year 2, but had a 17/16 ratio)


Kaepernick has regressed bad after a hot start, as well as the above mentioned RG3


Rivers for the most part sat 2 years, same for Brady,and Rodgers


Flacco has remained fairly steady, good but not dominant


Ben R. Has been really good since he debuted


The closest I found to Bortles current path is Matt Ryan, and if Baconator has problems with that career path than he truly is just a troll looking for attention.

Quote:Every QB deals with dropped passes. You can't just add up all the dropped balls and say this is what his percentage should be. If you did it with him you'd have to do it with every other QB and he'd be looking almost as bad in comparison. It's kinda like how every team thinks THEY have the worst injury situation.

 

 

I agree with you here. Bortles completion percentage absolutely must improve. When I look at these drops, the impression I get is that as much as we'd like to see Bortles deep accuracy tighten up, it's going to take more than improvement from the qb position to get this done. In other words, the WRs simply have to stop dropping passes as well. I understand the point being brought up to say, "hey, it's not all Bortles, " and it's not, but that's no reason to excuse the offense. The offense needs to figure out how to get the qb completion percentage up a bit.

Quote:Is the Jaguars supporting cast really that much better? Bortles only has two legitimate targets in ARob and Hurns out there, and yet over the past three weeks he's maintained a 7.0 YPA and has thrown 5 TDs with only 1 INT. He's also showing to be among the qbs currently excelling when under pressure or being blitzed, when using play action, and when throwing deep. Really the only area where Bortles has been slacking is his completion percentage, and that's what this thread is particularly addressing.

 

Before the season I'd bet you every person on this board would have said that the Jags offensive weapons would be better than the Titans. That's the type of effect good QBs have on their teams, they enable players to become play-makers

 

Quote:Have some time this morning to look at numbers of current top quarterbacks

Brees took 4 years to become a top qb (he did complete 60.8% in year 2, but had a 17/16 ratio)


Kaepernick has regressed bad after a hot start, as well as the above mentioned RG3


Rivers for the most part sat 2 years, same for Brady,and Rodgers


Flacco has remained fairly steady, good but not dominant


Ben R. Has been really good since he debuted


The closest I found to Bortles current path is Matt Ryan, and if Baconator has problems with that career path than he truly is just a troll looking for attention.

 

What correlation do you see between Matt Ryan and Bortles? I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make? Do you think they were similar prospects or something? Play style? Or do you mean to say that you think his ceiling will be Matt Ryan? You're just listing names and I'm not sure what inference you expect me to draw  here. Could you state the point more clearly please.

 

edit: So I'm trying to piece together what you're reasoning and I'm looking at their stats.  Ryan was significantly better in every area.

 

Ryan: 265/434 3,444 yards 61% 7.9 YPA QB rating 87.7 6 fumbles (1 lost)

 

Bortles: 280/475 2,908 yards 58% 6.1 YPA QB rating 69.5 (worst in the league) 7 fumbles (1 lost)

 

I think you're underestimating how truly awful Bortles rookie season was. Especially in comparison to the other young QBs of this generation. I think its a long shot to say that their trajectory will be comparable, especially considering that Ryan displayed much better awareness and pocket presence in his rookie year. I see his ceiling in the Tannehil range, maybe a little better than him if all goes well.

I get people not being happy with Bortles

and being skeptical of the future, I also get people who are loving the obvious improvements in him from last year. The truth is all the nay saying about him does nothing but allow you to say "told you so" if he doesnt work out.He is better than last year but still has a long way to go

Quote:Before the season I'd bet you every person on this board would have said that the Jags offensive weapons would be better than the Titans. That's the type of effect good QBs have on their teams, they enable players to become play-makers




What correlation do you see between Matt Ryan and Bortles? I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make? Do you think they were similar prospects or something? Play style? Or do you mean to say that you think his ceiling will be Matt Ryan? You're just listing names and I'm not sure what inference you expect me to draw here. Could you state the point more clearly please.


edit: So I'm trying to piece together what you're reasoning and I'm looking at their stats. Ryan was significantly better in every area.


Ryan: 265/434 3,444 yards 61% 7.9 YPA QB rating 87.7 6 fumbles (1 lost)


Bortles: 280/475 2,908 yards 58% 6.1 YPA QB rating 69.5 (worst in the league) 7 fumbles (1 lost)


I think you're underestimating how truly awful Bortles rookie season was. Especially in comparison to the other young QBs of this generation. I think its a long shot to say that their trajectory will be comparable, especially considering that Ryan displayed much better awareness and pocket presence in his rookie year. I see his ceiling in the Tannehil range, maybe a little better than him if all goes well.

Their rookie years are not relevant here, their second years are close to being dead on. I know you are proving to be an agenda poster, but that shows how much Bortles has improved climbing out of a bigger hole to begin with. I can pretty much see where this is going, Blake finishes with around 3800 yards 26tds, 15 picks, and it won't matter because "but,but,but, those rookie numbers were bad, and no quarterback has ever had a good career without winning rookie of the year".

BTW, as far as comparing weapons with the Titans

Douglas, and Wright both had 1000 yards seasons in the last 2 years. Nobody has done that in a Jag uniform in 10 years.

Quote:Their rookie years are not relevant here, their second years are close to being dead on. I know you are proving to be an agenda poster, but that shows how much Bortles has improved climbing out of a bigger hole to begin with. I can pretty much see where this is going, Blake finishes with around 3800 yards 26tds, 15 picks, and it won't matter because "but,but,but, those rookie numbers were bad, and no quarterback has ever had a good career without winning rookie of the year".

BTW, as far as comparing weapons with the Titans

Douglas, and Wright both had 1000 yards seasons in the last 2 years. Nobody has done that in a Jag uniform in 10 years.

 

Bortles will have to actually get their first. Padding his stats when the team is down 30 and falling on his face in the 2nd half against a pitiful Colts defense does not impress me. He has improved, I don't think anyone will deny that. But its not exactly like his improvement has been a revelation for this team, or very significant at all. I said it before, a D- to a C- doesn't impress me. But far be it from me to interrupt the teal circle jerk. Carry on  :thumbsup:

Quote:Bortles will have to actually get their first. Padding his stats when the team is down 30 and falling on his face in the 2nd half against a pitiful Colts defense does not impress me. He has improved, I don't think anyone will deny that. But its not exactly like his improvement has been a revelation for this team, or very significant at all. I said it before, a D- to a C- doesn't impress me. But far be it from me to interrupt the teal circle jerk. Carry on  :thumbsup:

So facts don't matter, but your made up grading scale does? Sorry you don't have anyone to form your own circle with.

Quote:So facts don't matter, but your made up grading scale does? Sorry you don't have anyone to form your own circle with.

 

What facts? That he might finish the year with the stats you posted? How about the fact that Bortles was the worst rated QB in the league last year? How about the fact he barely completes over half his passes? Or how his play falls off a cliff when the snaps being meaningful and the team's back is against the wall? Those are the facts, and both the stats and the game tape reflect that. Marginal improve from bad to very below average isn't good enough is the point I'm trying to convey to you.

Quote:Bortles will have to actually get their first. Padding his stats when the team is down 30 and falling on his face in the 2nd half against a pitiful Colts defense does not impress me. He has improved, I don't think anyone will deny that. But its not exactly like his improvement has been a revelation for this team, or very significant at all. I said it before, a D- to a C- doesn't impress me. But far be it from me to interrupt the teal circle jerk. Carry on :thumbsup:

Teal circle jerk? A new low for you troll.

I forget, but did we split with the tacks last year?


I just remember beating them like in week 16 at home... Don't remember the game in Nashville, though...

Quote:Before the season I'd bet you every person on this board would have said that the Jags offensive weapons would be better than the Titans. That's the type of effect good QBs have on their teams, they enable players to become play-makers

 

 

Injuries happen. Beyond Julius Thomas who would help this team immensely, the Jaguars have lost Arrelious Benn and Rashad Greene. Their 3rd WR is now Bryan Walter who they had to re-sign after having waived. Their 4th WR Tony Washington is no business being on an NFL roster. The only legiitmate weapons left for Blake are ARob and Hurns. At TE they have Marcedes as an option, but he's not exactly known as a pass catching TE. Behind him, there are no TEs getting open for Blake. What other qbs have to suffer only having two real weapons to throw to, one of those now being constantly double teamed?