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Quote:People are quick to jump on the mental Illness bandwagon.

 

Alright.  Let's fix that then.  Let's ACTUALLY do something about Mental Illness in this country.  Oh, we won't, you say?  Why's that?  Anyone want to tell me what's holding up these politicians from doing anything about mental illness?  They've been blaming mental illness long enough.  Surely we've got a plan in place to fix that, right?  I mean it's going to save lives, right?

 

We've been normalizing it for 20 years now and it's only going to get worse.

Every time someone brings up that health background checks, including mental health assessments, should be part of the ownership process of guns, they're met with cries of "do you have any idea how expensive and pointless that would be"?

 

A depressed person is likely to commit suicide. If they own a gun, that suicide would likely be committed with it, adding to gun violence statistics. Thing is, 42 million Americans are currently or have been in the past diagnosed with depression. If I were to come forward and say that those 42 million people should not be allowed to have a gun, the same people currently pinning mental illness as the problem would be lined up to claw down my throat before I could even finish clicking "Post".

 

It's not just guns and it's not just mental illness. It's a combination of both, and even then, would Dylann Roof have been flagged by a mental health screening? What about killers who steal guns from someone else, what good would a mental health screening that disallowed gun ownership on their parts have accomplished? Should people wishing to exercise their Second Amendment rights be forced to surrender privacy to the government in an area that is arguably the most private part of someone's life? Should a diagnosis of depression end up in a government database for the rest of your life, inevitably to be used against you at some point in the future?

 

The mental health system in this country needs to be overhauled, no doubt, but to me that is an issue independent of gun violence. The way to limit gun violence is to limit guns. Not eliminate guns--the Second Amendment still applies, and I'm actually considering purchasing a gun myself after moving out of my peaceful country home and into Dallas--but to place strict limits on the type of guns, number of guns that can be owned, amount of magazines and ammunition that can be owned, etc. It won't stop gun violence, but it would make it harder for someone to walk in with 70 rounds of ammo and reload seven times before being stopped. You can't eliminate gun violence without eliminating guns, and even then, it would take generations to clean them all out of the system. If it can be mitigated by simply saying, "You're not allowed to own six assault rifles, four shotguns, two hunting rifles and eight pistols, and 2,000 rounds of ammo and 15 magazines for each," isn't that common sense regulation worth pursuing?

 

"Only outlaws will have guns blah blah blah," go away. Your argument is akin to sticking your head in the sand and hoping that the world has changed without anyone doing anything by the time you pull up.

Why should the US government remove guns, a hobby, passion, and ideological defense for many people, because such a minute amount of people use it wrongfully?

 

Lets do some quick math.

 

The US has a 3.7 person death rate by firearm per 100,000 citizens per year (and dropping) .

 

2/3rds of that is by suicide or accident.

 

The US has a 1.2 person death rate by firearm used in crime per 100,000 citizens per year.

 

The US has 318 million citizens.

 

318,000,000 / 100,000 = 3,180

 

3,180 * 1.2 = 3,816 deaths per year by firearm

 

3,816 / 318,000,000 = 0.000012% chance of being killed by firearm per year.

 

Remove inner city crime (or simply don't live in urban "ghettos") and that percentage becomes almost insignificant (which it sort of already is).

 

So, tell me DragonFury, TJBender, lastonealive. Knowing this, why do you still want to ban guns? Because the media tells you to? Because the government says they are bad? You are statistically MUCH more likely to be run over by a car. Statistically MUCH more likely to fall to your death. To suffocate. To drown. To be burned to death. What should we do? Should we ban cars? Intoxicating chemicals? Showers? Fire?

 

Explain to me your reasoning for increasing gun restrictions knowing that the numbers are so minute and insignificant. What logic could you possibly have?

I live in a society without guns, I can see the benefits. I'm yet to hear a coherent reason for people to have any kind of high capacity gun at all. Just the usual laughable it's in the second AMENDMENT. Maybe its time to amend that to something written a bit clearer.

Quote:So, tell me DragonFury, TJBender, lastonealive. Knowing this, why do you still want to ban guns?

Please quote where I advocated banning guns.

Quote:I live in a society without guns, I can see the benefits. I'm yet to hear a coherent reason for people to have any kind of high capacity gun at all. Just the usual laughable it's in the second AMENDMENT. Maybe its time to amend that to something written a bit clearer.

 

Why ban high capacity guns at all? They are fun to shoot and good home-defense weapons. There is two purposes. Why ban them?

 

Quote:Please quote where I advocated banning guns.

 

Maybe not banning guns, but even stricter gun laws apply here. For what purpose?

Quote:Maybe not banning guns, but even stricter gun laws apply here. For what purpose?

I'm pretty sure I answered that already.

Quote:I'm pretty sure I answered that already.

 

So you believe it is acceptable to ban or restrict something because it affects 0.000012% of the population?

Quote:So you believe it is acceptable to ban or restrict something because it affects 0.000012% of the population?

Once again, where did I say "ban"?


Edit: nice edit. And yes, if people are dying senselessly, there is a problem worth addressing.

Quote:Once again, where did I say "ban"?

 

"You're not allowed to own six assault rifles, four shotguns, two hunting rifles and eight pistols, and 2,000 rounds of ammo and 15 magazines for each,"

Quote:Edit: nice edit. And yes, if people are dying senselessly, there is a problem worth addressing.

 

I caught myself :teehee:

 

People die senselessly because of reckless driving. People die senselessly because of poor parenting. People die senselessly because they own a pool.

 

It never ends.

 

0.000012%

 

So minute.

Quote:People die senselessly because of reckless driving. People die senselessly because of poor parenting. People die recklessly because they own a pool.

Terrible drivers lose their license and sometimes go to jail. Terrible parents lose their kids and go to jail. Terrible swimmers who own a pool...well, Darwin handles them.


Point being, there are restrictions on those activities to minimize the damage that those unfit to participate in them can do. What's wrong with putting restrictions on guns to minimize the damage that those unfit to own them can do?

How would firing a high capacity gun inside your house be a good idea?


You said it yourself guns are fun...you just don't care if someone shoots kids in a school, you don't want your fun ruined.

Quote:Terrible drivers lose their license and sometimes go to jail. Terrible parents lose their kids and go to jail. Terrible swimmers who own a pool...well, Darwin handles them.


Point being, there are restrictions on those activities to minimize the damage that those unfit to participate in them can do. What's wrong with putting restrictions on guns to minimize the damage that those unfit to own them can do?

 

Those restrictions exist on guns as well. You cannot open carry in the majority of states. You cannot conceal carry unless you have a license. You cannot own at ALL in many cities. You must submit to background checks in most retail purchases. You cannot own machine guns unless you have a license. You cannot own automatic weaponry unless you have a license. You cannot own or use high-capacity magazines in many cities. You cannot bring guns into gun-free zones. There are plenty of restrictions.

 

Terrible gun owners go to jail and lose their guns. Fact.

Quote:Terrible gun owners go to jail and lose their guns. Fact.

Or they shoot up a school.


Find me some articles about serial killers who drive their car into a classroom, or parents who give birth purely so that they can kill their kids. If you can find something about a serial killer toting a kiddie pool around and drowning victims en masse in it, please post it as well. That would be something to see!

Quote:How would firing a high capacity gun inside your house be a good idea?


You said it yourself guns are fun...you just don't care if someone shoots kids in a school, you don't want my fun ruined.

 

297 people have been killed in schools in the US since 1980.

 

297 in 25 years.

 

11 deaths per year.

 

.00000003% chance of a student being shot at school.

 

Stop being silly.

 

*edit* my numbers are from 2012. The percentage goes up slightly if you include the deaths between 2012-15.

Quote:Or they shoot up a school.


Find me some articles about serial killers who drive their car into a classroom, or parents who give birth purely so that they can kill their kids. If you can find something about a serial killer toting a kiddie pool around and drowning victims en masse in it, please post it as well. That would be something to see!

 

No, I am not going to do that. I don't believe that guns are the problem and numbers back me up.

So if people are the problem... How do we minimise the damage they can do? Oh...gun control. Or you just going to lock everyone up?

Quote:No, I am not going to do that. I don't believe that guns are the problem and numbers back me up.

Guns alone are not the problem. People are not the problem. People with guns are the problem, and changing the way guns are regulated is a way to alleviate some of that.

Quote:So if people are the problem... How do we minimise the damage they can do? Oh...gun control. Or you just going to lock everyone up?

 

Why would you lock everyone up because such a small percentage of people commit crime with a firearm?