Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Bortles, Yeldon, Colvin and Fowler still have a chance to one day claim elite status.

I'm hoping. I really am.

Quote:Boy I tell you what that Marcus Mariota looks like the real effin deal

 

 

Yeah he did, but I noticed he has a very low Rodney Pete like trajectory on his throws which is sure to lead to INTs if he doesn't get that corrected. The Bucs has one surefire pick six just dropped by the defender.

Quote:Where!? Is Gratz, Colvin or McCray better then Cox  and Mathis where? I don't see it? How about Cyprien is he better than Lowery ever was? What about Joeckel is he better than Monroe was? Telvin better then Daryl? Yeldon/Robinson/Gerhart better than MJD/Taylor/Jennings? 

 

Jesus Gene didn't leave the bar real freaking high and we can't even get over it. Where's all this talent people see?

 

 

Mathis, Daryl, MJD and Taylor were not Gene Smith players. Taylor was a Coughlin player and the others were Shack players. Are you giving Caldwell credit for Poz?


 

As for Cox, McCray is just as good and Colvin is even better. Sample I believe will prove to be better than Lowery, and it's too early to say Cyp isn't just as good. I'll give you Monroe, but that's it. Yeldon looks to be far better than Jennings ever was.


 

What great players did Gene Smith bring in? I mentioned Poz, but he's constantly ragged on for getting beat in coverage. Monroe was ok but never did live up to his draft status. Anyone?

Quote:Caldwell's biggest mistake was hiring Gus Bradley.  With passing on Bridgewater for Bortles as a possibility (we'll see at the end of the year).  

 

 

In Caldwell's defense, Bradley was just about the highest sought after HC on the market that year having been the DC of such a great Seahawks defense. At any rate, the jury is still out on him so it's too early to call him a mistake.


 

As for Bridgewater, did you see his game against the 49ers. Teddy is often overrated because of all the talent on the Vikings roster, but this preseason and in week one I've been far more impressed with what I've seen out of Blake. The same goes for Derek Carr at least so far this season.

Quote:The most LUXURIOUS NFL franchise EVER.

 

 

With the changes Khan has been making, we might be already.

Quote:"You see t-Excuse me, Excuse me Oesher, Excuse me. I have made a lot of money, a lot of good deals. The Jags, not so much. They have stupid leaders, stupid leaders. The plan is simple. I want to make the Jags great again. And I am going to do that by making good deals and hiring the right people."

 

 

"We're letting all kinds of really bad people come across to our quarterback. We need to build a great, big wall around the quarterback."

Quote:Mathis, Daryl, MJD and Taylor were not Gene Smith players. Taylor was a Coughlin player and the others were Shack players. Are you giving Caldwell credit for Poz?


As for Cox, McCray is just as good and Colvin is even better. Sample I believe will prove to be better than Lowery, and it's too early to say Cyp isn't just as good. I'll give you Monroe, but that's it. Yeldon looks to be far better than Jennings ever was.


What great players did Gene Smith bring in? I mentioned Poz, but he's constantly ragged on for getting beat in coverage. Monroe was ok but never did live up to his draft status. Anyone?

One of the few things gene smith did right was understand not everything from the preciously failed regime needed to be replaced.


Yes I give Caldwell credit for keeping Poz but I also hold him accountable for all the roster holes be created and has yet to fill.

Quote:What great players did Gene Smith bring in? I mentioned Poz, but he's constantly ragged on for getting beat in coverage. Monroe was ok but never did live up to his draft status. Anyone?

 

Great? Maybe Blackmon had he not become a DUI machine.


 

Gene's first draft was pretty good. Monroe, Cox, Knighton, and Jennings have had good seasons. Mike Thomas was good for a while, and Underwood played for a few years. Britton was looking very good before injuries derailed his career. Just because draft picks are no longer on the Jags doesn't mean they're worthless.


 

Gene's drafts went downhill fast after that, starting with Alualu.

Quote:You forgot about Blaine Gabbert over JJ Watt.


Caldwell just had a blockbuster 2014 draft. It's too early to just his year's draft, but including rookie free agency he picked up Bortles, ARob, Linder, Telvin Smith, Chris Smith and Hurns... plus we still might see something out of Lee yet.


There is no comparison here. Caldwell is nothing like the pathetic excuse of a GM that Gene Smith was.

Blockbuster?! That's a joke right?

Quote:Blockbuster?! That's a joke right?

If by Blockbuster he meant the video store then it may be a spot on comparison.

Quote:What great players did Gene Smith bring in? I mentioned Poz, but he's constantly ragged on for getting beat in coverage. Monroe was ok but never did live up to his draft status. Anyone?

 

He brought in Dwight Lowery who is the only man since Deon Grant left to play the FS position at an NFL-level, which might cloud my judgment as to how good he actually was (not in context of Jaguars-safety play).

 

By the same token, Gene brought in Dawan Landry who actually knew how to play the SS position without giving up a big play fairly regularly. Whether he's great in the context of the entire NFL might be tough for me to judge because I'm so used to atrocious safety play, but I thought he was pretty great in his two years in Jacksonville.

 

Drew Coleman was a pretty stout nickelback for his one year here.

 

Gene also brought in Ryan Davis.

 

Also drafted Brandon Marshall and Rashad Jennings who, while nothing special in Jacksonville, have shown themselves to be pretty good players once they left the team.

 

Are any of these guys hall of famers? No. But I think there's an argument that in the right situation they can make an argument for being "great."

 

I know we all like to revise Gene's tenure to be the worst in the history of the NFL so we can all feel warm and fuzzy about Caldwell, just because we can say "AT LEAST HE'S NOT JEANS SMIFF, LOLZ" but the guy did put together a defense that gave up the 6th fewest yards in the entire NFL back in 2011. I think that one statistic makes the idea that he never brought in a single great player a pretty tough sell.

 

(Note: Don't get the wrong impression, I'm not saying Gene's a good GM by any stretch. He obviously needed to be fired and I would hope he's never in a position to pick players again. But, the revision to make it look like he never made a single good move so we can all slobber over everything Dave does just reeks of an embarrassing desperation for anything even resembling mediocrity, to me.)

 

Edit: I should also clarify that the last two paragraphs aren't directed at you, specifically, Jags02. I generally like your posts and respect you and your opinions. More of a comment about the generally accepted mindset of the fanbase.

Quote:How many years have you typed this out and the team still looked horrible 15 other weeks?

hyperbole...

 

The team hasn't looked horrible 16 weeks of any season. Sorry, just not true.

 

We saw a completely deconstructed roster 2 seasons ago turn on the heat in the second half. And then the roster was turned over some more, then we saw that team have some highs with mostly lows through one season. A season in which the rookie QB came in week 3 or 4.

Now, 1 week in the sky is falling already. Heads should roll because our young QB made a dang pick 6 that essentially turned a close game and crushed a young banged up team.

 

Bortles isn't at the carry the team stage in his VERY SHORT career.

Caldwell hasn't made perfect moves but he doesn't have this roster in such disarray that it couldn't even compete with a tough D and playoff team Sunday. It wasn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be, as they usually do.

Gus can't coach? I've seen young players develop on this team, and they aren't all going to be stars... 

Guys want to play for him and guys aren't quitting on him.

 

Just the fans. Per the usual.

 

You are all just weak people who can't handle not having their way.

It's why there is so many posts complaining to no end about something completely out of your control. A football game.

Quote:hyperbole...

 

The team hasn't looked horrible 16 weeks of any season. Sorry, just not true.

 

We saw a completely deconstructed roster 2 seasons ago turn on the heat in the second half. And then the roster was turned over some more, then we saw that team have some highs with mostly lows through one season. A season in which the rookie QB came in week 3 or 4.

Now, 1 week in the sky is falling already. Heads should roll because our young QB made a dang pick 6 that essentially turned a close game and crushed a young banged up team.

 

Bortles isn't at the carry the team stage in his VERY SHORT career.

Caldwell hasn't made perfect moves but he doesn't have this roster in such disarray that it couldn't even compete with a tough D and playoff team Sunday. It wasn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be, as they usually do.

Gus can't coach? I've seen young players develop on this team, and they aren't all going to be stars... 

Guys want to play for him and guys aren't quitting on him.

 

Just the fans. Per the usual.

 

You are all just weak people who can't handle not having their way.

It's why there is so many posts complaining to no end about something completely out of your control. A football game.

 

We didn't "turn on the heat". That is the biggest misconception ever. We beat teams that were equally bad as us. If you want to look at a theme for Gus' regime...it's that. We typically lost to teams that are better than us, and are able to beat teams same level as us. That's not a bad coach or a great coach, that's an average coach.

 

The better question is...why when I look at our team...3 years in, and we still look like the "worse" team on paper.

 

We had holes at the top 3 "premium" positions when Gene was fired: QB, DE, LT. In the 3 years since Caldwell took over, he's drafted LT, QB, DE.

 

Granted there's injuries, but barring some amazing turnaround from Luke and development in Blake and recovery in Fowler...that's three top 3 picks that would be blown by Dave.

 

We can hate on Shack and Gene all we want....neither one of those guys have managed to screw up a top 3 pick...much less three of them (assuming, as I said...that Luke/Blake/Fowler doesn't emerge). Right now, I'm still betting on Blake, then maaaaybe Fowler, then a bigger gap of odds to Luke.

This year hurts watching Cooper look like he's the rare WR actually worth drafting in the first round. Certainly someone we could be using right now and creating a huge impact on our success.

 

Injuries can't be predicted, but the injury doubles down the bet on drafting Fowler.

 

Even if he can come back, he's still got to prove he was worth the pick.  Losing a season raises, not lowers the stakes.  The injury, while no ones fault and out of everyone's control, requires higher (not lower) expectations to recoup lost time and value.

 

Because if he doesn't recover and isn't the guy we thought we drafted, it's a wasted pick and back to square one. Again.

Quote:This year hurts watching Cooper look like he's the rare WR actually worth drafting in the first round. Certainly someone we could be using right now and creating a huge impact on our success.

 

Injuries can't be predicted, but the injury doubles down the bet on drafting Fowler.

 

Even if he can come back, he's still got to prove he was worth the pick.  Losing a season raises, not lowers the stakes.  The injury, while no ones fault and out of everyone's control, requires higher (not lower) expectations to recoup lost time and value.

 

Because if he doesn't recover and isn't the guy we thought we drafted, it's a wasted pick and back to square one. Again.

 

Beasley didn;t have a great game, but he's already flashed that quickness beating an all-pro talent at LT in Peters. Fowler was already a question mark at LEO (as most young rushers are), but his injury clouds that further.

Quote:He brought in Dwight Lowery who is the only man since Deon Grant left to play the FS position at an NFL-level, which might cloud my judgment as to how good he actually was (not in context of Jaguars-safety play).

 

By the same token, Gene brought in Dawan Landry who actually knew how to play the SS position without giving up a big play fairly regularly. Whether he's great in the context of the entire NFL might be tough for me to judge because I'm so used to atrocious safety play, but I thought he was pretty great in his two years in Jacksonville.

 

Drew Coleman was a pretty stout nickelback for his one year here.

 

Gene also brought in Ryan Davis.

 

Also drafted Brandon Marshall and Rashad Jennings who, while nothing special in Jacksonville, have shown themselves to be pretty good players once they left the team.

 

Are any of these guys hall of famers? No. But I think there's an argument that in the right situation they can make an argument for being "great."

 

I know we all like to revise Gene's tenure to be the worst in the history of the NFL so we can all feel warm and fuzzy about Caldwell, just because we can say "AT LEAST HE'S NOT JEANS SMIFF, LOLZ" but the guy did put together a defense that gave up the 6th fewest yards in the entire NFL back in 2011. I think that one statistic makes the idea that he never brought in a single great player a pretty tough sell.

 

(Note: Don't get the wrong impression, I'm not saying Gene's a good GM by any stretch. He obviously needed to be fired and I would hope he's never in a position to pick players again. But, the revision to make it look like he never made a single good move so we can all slobber over everything Dave does just reeks of an embarrassing desperation for anything even resembling mediocrity, to me.)

 

Edit: I should also clarify that the last two paragraphs aren't directed at you, specifically, Jags02. I generally like your posts and respect you and your opinions. More of a comment about the generally accepted mindset of the fanbase.

 

 

This would be a great thread if I had asked, "what average players did Gene bring in." I'm still looking for a single great player.

Quote:Blockbuster?! That's a joke right?

 

 

No joke. Ask Jaguars fans who are the best players on this team's roster and most would include Bortles, Colvin, Linder, Telvin Smith, ARob, Hurns and Chris Smith. These are core players now and into the future.

Way too early to jump to conclusions about the roster and expectations for the rest of the season despite the disappointment and frustration with the second half of the game last week.  I felt the first half went as expected against a tough defensive team like the Panthers.  The 2nd half might indicate what you guys are lamenting about, but it might also just be one half of one game in a 16 week season.  How many times in the NFL does week 2 look completely different than week 1 for a given team?  A lot actually.  Let's step away from the ledge and see what happens this weekend. 

Quote:No joke. Ask Jaguars fans who are the best players on this team's roster and most would include Bortles, Colvin, Linder, Telvin Smith, ARob, Hurns and Chris Smith. These are core players now and into the future.

I think they are erring on the side of we don't know for sure that most of those players pan out to be core players for the future.

 

Aside from Linder....

and probably Colvin...

 

the rest could essentially still not be very good at seasons end (of course we all hope not) and thus, that draft would be rather pedestrian.

 

I think the worrying is overdone right at the moment. We shouldn't have expected to be beating playoff teams. But we were competitive for the majority of the game and beat ourselves really.

People fail to realize we weren't whipped up and down the field... bad breaks and a few dumb mistakes that we still have to correct.

 

 

I'll wait before being overly critical until around midseason, where I expected us to have about 4 wins....

Quote:I think they are erring on the side of we don't know for sure that most of those players pan out to be core players for the future.

 

Aside from Linder....

and probably Colvin...

 

the rest could essentially still not be very good at seasons end (of course we all hope not) and thus, that draft would be rather pedestrian.

 

I think the worrying is overdone right at the moment. We shouldn't have expected to be beating playoff teams. But we were competitive for the majority of the game and beat ourselves really.

People fail to realize we weren't whipped up and down the field... bad breaks and a few dumb mistakes that we still have to correct.

 

 

I'll wait before being overly critical until around midseason, where I expected us to have about 4 wins....

 

 

I guess, but I'm still excited for all these players. On ARob, I think we put too much stock into him having to be our #1 guy because he's not Julio Jones, etc. That said, he wasn't exactly drafted to be. Marquis was supposed to be "that guy," and ARob was meant to be a quality #2 WR. I believe that's precisely what he is. It's just we still need that legit #1 guy.