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Quote:Very sad news can only take comfort knowing the victims are in a better place.

Believing they are in a "better" place.

Quote:Just take a look at today's culture.

There is less violent crime now then in the past. Annoyed when people keep saying things like this even when they aren't true.

Quote:I refuse to make this tragedy a political point about guns, this is simply a case of a racist sick individual bent on killing people. With or without a gun this guy was going to kill you can't stop evil.

To be fair though without a gun he wouldn't have killed 9 people. Maybe 1 or 2 with a knife.

Quote:There is less violent crime now then in the past. Annoyed when people keep saying things like this even when they aren't true.

 

Violent crime has gone down? 

Quote:Violent crime has gone down? 

 

 

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2.../crime.jpg

 

EDIT: On second thought, that graph doesn't go back far enough.

 

http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/crime.jpg

Quote:https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2.../crime.jpg

 

EDIT: On second thought, that graph doesn't go back far enough.

 

http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/crime.jpg

 

So violent crime has gone down during the Obama administration?  

 

And it skyrocketed during the Reagan administration? 

Quote:So violent crime has gone down during the Obama administration?  

 

And it skyrocketed during the Reagan administration? 

 

It looks to me that the US presidents at the time had nothing to do with the trend. It went up during Ford and Carter, initially dropped and then went further up with Reagan, peaked with Bush 41, and has been dropping since then through Clinton, Bush 43, and Obama.

Quote:To be fair though without a gun he wouldn't have killed 9 people. Maybe 1 or 2 with a knife.

 

Maybe even none.  Imagine if one of the people at the church had a gun, and the psycho only had a knife.  

Quote:To be fair though without a gun he wouldn't have killed 9 people. Maybe 1 or 2 with a knife.

Or the whole congregation with a home made bomb. Nearly impossible to stop people who have murder in their heart. Evil will find a way.

Quote:Or the whole congregation with a home made bomb. Nearly impossible to stop people who have murder in their heart. Evil will find a way.

Lot easier to buy a gun in SC than learning how to make a bomb.

Quote:Lot easier to buy a gun in SC than learning how to make a bomb.

Not the point I was making. And I think fertilizer and diesel fuel are easier to procure than a gun.

Quote:How can you blame society for a crazy, racist, 21 year old kid?  

 

There is a culture within the society that does seem to be in love with guns, but that isn't even the culture that pushed this kid to go kill.  He's a racist, he's young and stupid, and obviously highly impressionable.

 

At the end of the day, I don't know know of any metaphysical philosophy that is taught on Sundays that says that the right to bear arms has been granted to us by the creator.  It's time to revisit the 2nd Amendment.  

 

It shouldn't be easier to get and shoot a gun that to get and drive a car.  That's just my thoughts on it.

 

I blame society because yes, racism does still exist even today.  Just take a look at the video games, movies and television shows that are produced.  Take a listen to some of the "music" that is being made in today's society.

 

Every time a mass shooting happens there is a certain crowd that calls for more restrictions regarding guns and the Second Amendment.  The fact of the matter is, the majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens and use weapons in a responsible manner.

 

Quote:There is less violent crime now then in the past. Annoyed when people keep saying things like this even when they aren't true.

 

Refer to my statement towards The Anchorman.

 

Quote:To be fair though without a gun he wouldn't have killed 9 people. Maybe 1 or 2 with a knife.

 

Or on the flip-side, perhaps if someone at the prayer meeting was a concealed weapons holder and had a gun on them he would have been stopped immediately.

Quote:Lot easier to buy a gun in SC than learning how to make a bomb.

 

I disagree with that.  A simple google search will reveal exactly how to make a bomb, and it's a lot less expensive than purchasing a gun.

Quote:Not the point I was making. And I think fertilizer and diesel fuel are easier to procure than a gun.

Buying two ingredients does not make a bomb but ok.

Quote:Buying two ingredients does not make a bomb but ok.

 

However, you seem to miss the point entirely.  Buying those two ingredients along with a few other "commonly available" supplies is still a lot less expensive than purchasing a firearm, and those supplies do in fact, make a bomb.  Instructions for doing so are easily obtained and free on the internet.

 

So thanks for playing the game by saying that it's "lot easier to buy a gun in SC than learning how to make a bomb".  There is absolutely no truth to your prior statement.

I can appreciate that this incident can (and should) be part of the discussion on gun control in this country, but I am a little dismayed that it took much of the country (including President Obama) all of two hours to get there.

People with bad intentions will always figure out a way to get what they need to cause the harm they intend to cause. So making guns illegal or harder to purchase will only keep the weapons away from the good guys. It's no different than illegal drugs. If you want them bad enough...they're easy to obtain.

Quote:People with bad intentions will always figure out a way to get what they need to cause the harm they intend to cause. So making guns illegal or harder to purchase will only keep the weapons away from the good guys. It's no different than illegal drugs. If you want them bad enough...they're easy to obtain.

This.

Quote:People with bad intentions will always figure out a way to get what they need to cause the harm they intend to cause. So making guns illegal or harder to purchase will only keep the weapons away from the good guys. It's no different than illegal drugs. If you want them bad enough...they're easy to obtain.

 

Yup. 

 

These 9 murders in Charleston occurred in a gun free zone.  I'm betting the law abiding citizens in the church were following the laws, especially considering the fact that the pastor also supported the legislation making it illegal to conceal carry in a church in SC. 

 

If the gun wasn't available to this guy legally, he would have found another way to carry out his plan.  Maybe it would have meant fewer victims.  Maybe it would have meant more depending on how he went about executing his targets. 

 

 

Quote:Buying two ingredients does not make a bomb but ok.

 

If you don't know what you're talking about, it's usually better just to not say anything.  For a fraction of what it cost to buy the Glock he used for this, he could have built multiple bombs. 

 

With enough diesel fuel, fertillizer, nails or other scrap, casing, and an ignition source to build mutiple bombs, he could have gotten out of Home Depot for under $150, and he could have done significantly more devastation than he did.  It doesn't take much skill to build a cheap pipe bomb.  Look at the Boston Marathon bombing.  They bought a couple of cheap pressure cookers and look a the destruction that caused.

Quote:With enough diesel fuel, fertillizer, nails or other scrap, casing, and an ignition source to build mutiple bombs, he could have gotten out of Home Depot for under $150, and he could have done significantly more devastation than he did.  It doesn't take much skill to build a cheap pipe bomb.  Look at the Boston Marathon bombing.  They bought a couple of cheap pressure cookers and look a the destruction that caused.

Getting into the checkout line at Home Depot with diesel fuel, fertilizer, nails, casing and an ignition source is probably going to result in the police being called before you even get to pay, but your point is made and taken