Yea because having somebody in the front office who goes out of his way to over step his Coaches worked really well in the past huh? It's almost like we just seen what happened, when that happens... weird.

The word you're looking for is opinion, not facts.

It is my opinion that Caldwell endorses Wash and his defense, but it is logically based on the fact that it is the only defense Caldwell has worked with while he has been here.  If he didn't like the scheme, I am sure he would have told Khan it needed to be changed when he hired Morrone.  Unlike your opinions, mine are supported by logical premises.  For facts, please see my signature.

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Y'all remember when we all thought Dave and Doug were about to get canned and Khan came out and said the two of them sold him on this grand "plan" and they'd get a chance to execute it?

Well, it's pretty clear now that the plan was to get rid of every single last malcontent and Coughlin miscue, and it actually has done a world of good for the offense and a fair amount of good for the defense. This team does look like it has a real bought in chemistry now.

They just forgot one thing.

Todd Wash's scheme can't work without a disproportionate amount of talent spread throughout and a front four that gets home without help.

We don't have the DE rotation the scheme needs, the interior push required to help those ends, that necessary CB that takes away half the field, or a free safety that would even be sniffed on the waiver wire - much less one worthy of the scheme's requirement.

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OK. Please describe the defensive scheme that works for the current talent level of this team.

You're missing the point. 

There are indeed ways to scheme this talent level far better than it's being utilized. The most glaring responses involve less  of this soft zone that  allows everything and anything underneath and more aggressive blitzing to give your weakened secondary a fighting chance with some help up front.  But the POINT was that they knew Wash wouldn't budge from this scheme and they took away what he needed to have a fighting chance and didn't do enough to replace it. 

Outside of that - I really like what Dave and Doug did to this football team over the offseason. Sincerely.

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It is my opinion that Caldwell endorses Wash and his defense, but it is logically based on the fact that it is the only defense Caldwell has worked with while he has been here.  If he didn't like the scheme, I am sure he would have told Khan it needed to be changed when he hired Morrone.  Unlike your opinions, mine are supported by logical premises.  For facts, please see my signature.

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OK. Please describe the defensive scheme that works for the current talent level of this team.

You're missing the point. 

There are indeed ways to scheme this talent level far better than it's being utilized. The most glaring responses involve less  of this soft zone that  allows everything and anything underneath and more aggressive blitzing to give your weakened secondary a fighting chance with some help up front.  But the POINT was that they knew Wash wouldn't budge from this scheme and they took away what he needed to have a fighting chance and didn't do enough to replace it. 

Outside of that - I really like what Dave and Doug did to this football team over the offseason. Sincerely.

Yup, this scheme lives, or dies by getting constant pressure from the front 4. If you're not getting it from that 4, it gets sliced to pieces, as we've seen. 

Which is a big reason why the Defense was so great in '17/'18 because they had Ngakoue, Campbell, Malik Jackson, Dareus and Fowler all coming in waves.

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I was watching Red Zone yesterday, and in fairly quick succession, I saw Nick Foles throw a TD pass, Alan Robinson catch a TD pass, Tashaun Gipson make an interception, Malik Jackson get a sack, and Yannick Ngakoue get a forced fumble and sack.  I saw all that just casually watching Red Zone for just a couple of hours.  

I'm not drawing any conclusions from all that.  But I did wonder, why are all these ex-Jags out there making plays for other teams, when we could sure use them.  Maybe there's a good reason.   I don't know.

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I was watching Red Zone yesterday, and in fairly quick succession, I saw Nick Foles throw a TD pass, Alan Robinson catch a TD pass, Tashaun Gipson make an interception, Malik Jackson get a sack, and Yannick Ngakoue get a forced fumble and sack.  I saw all that just casually watching Red Zone for just a couple of hours.  

I'm not drawing any conclusions from all that.  But I did wonder, why are all these ex-Jags out there making plays for other teams, when we could sure use them.  Maybe there's a good reason.   I don't know.

Well, all of them but AR15 were cap related. Caldwell uses a contract template that gets us out of big free agent deals after the second or third years without dead money penalties, so Gipson and Jackson were seen as overpriced for declining production. Gipson is on his second team since signing with us; Jackson didn't play last year after breaking his foot and he's now 30 but his play already started declining in 2018. Foles was going once GM15 was given the team even with the dead money penalty. AR15 just wasn't going to sign here, he was the original diva that started it all.

The shot that got me yesterday was seeing Brady, Gabbert, and Leftwich on the sideline for Tampa with BB5 on the other side. It's like all our Jaguar QB nightmares were surrounding the GOAT, almost mocking our inability to draft a great QB.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I was watching Red Zone yesterday, and in fairly quick succession, I saw Nick Foles throw a TD pass, Alan Robinson catch a TD pass, Tashaun Gipson make an interception, Malik Jackson get a sack, and Yannick Ngakoue get a forced fumble and sack.  I saw all that just casually watching Red Zone for just a couple of hours.  

I'm not drawing any conclusions from all that.  But I did wonder, why are all these ex-Jags out there making plays for other teams, when we could sure use them.  Maybe there's a good reason.   I don't know.

Well, all of them but AR15 were cap related. Caldwell uses a contract template that gets us out of big free agent deals after the second or third years without dead money penalties, so Gipson and Jackson were seen as overpriced for declining production. Gipson is on his second team since signing with us; Jackson didn't play last year after breaking his foot and he's now 30 but his play already started declining in 2018. Foles was going once GM15 was given the team even with the dead money penalty. AR15 just wasn't going to sign here, he was the original diva that started it all.

The shot that got me yesterday was seeing Brady, Gabbert, and Leftwich on the sideline for Tampa with BB5 on the other side. It's like all our Jaguar QB nightmares were surrounding the GOAT, almost mocking our inability to draft a great QB.

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I've got news for you... any scheme is going to have issues without talent.  This isn't hard to understand.

And I've got news for you... This scheme takes a crazy amount of talent to be good. Which is entirely the point. That isn't hard to understand.

He's obstinate with his opinion, that's for sure, but if you just understood football you'd recognize his greatness.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Lol, can you point to a post of mine where I've discussed any "tactical basics?" It's clear from your posts that you have a high regard for your resume and experience, I have a high regard for what I see on the screen. What I see is a coaching failure that you seem determined to defend while also not defending it.

1. You forgot to mention that you scored 4 touchdowns in one game against Andrew Johnson High
2. Walsh has been the same guy for 8 seasons, he runs a scheme that requires an abundance of talent to be successful because he can't teach anything else. With average to good talent the scheme causes them to play worse than they actually are and even the really good players grew tired of constantly being pencil whipped.
3. You're stating your opinion, your hubris just makes you think you're right.
4. A bad or ineffective scheme can also make players worse. As a coach you should understand how important it is to put your players in position to succeed, unlike what the Washboard does to our players. Or maybe you don't and that's why you're an ex-coach.

It's a little "g", kinda like Thor in the MCU. You enjoy your day too.

1.  True story.
2.  Every scheme requires talent to be successful.  The 2nd part is your uneducated opinion.
3.  For the most part, we are all just stating opinions.  But on Red Cover 2 (which even a novice can tell the play in question clearly was) the basic fundamentals are facts, not opinions. Anyone who has played or coached knows this (its clear you don't, hence the evidence of your lack of tactical understanding).
4.  Its your opinion (and hubris) that assumes it is the scheme that limits our performance.  And I'm an ex-coach now because it was too much of a grind for me... I missed my free time to enjoy things beyond football.  Plus I make more money and have more time for my kids doing what I do now.    

Peace brother.

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As far as how you how you feel about Todd Wash's scheme, what do you think about the 2nd half 2017 AFC championship, was that on the scheme failing and him not making adjustments?

Its not fresh in my mind, so I'd have to look at it again to form an educated opinion.  But the fact that we were in the AFC Championship game and had the #2 rated D in the League suggests scheme was not a problem for some reason that year.

So just a simple statement then, you call it true or false:

Coaching (scheme and concepts, teaching fundamentals and motivation, and game day play calling) has less impact on overall success than the talent of the players. 

Yes or no?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It is my opinion that Caldwell endorses Wash and his defense, but it is logically based on the fact that it is the only defense Caldwell has worked with while he has been here.  If he didn't like the scheme, I am sure he would have told Khan it needed to be changed when he hired Morrone.  Unlike your opinions, mine are supported by logical premises.  For facts, please see my signature.

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OK. Please describe the defensive scheme that works for the current talent level of this team.

You're missing the point. 

There are indeed ways to scheme this talent level far better than it's being utilized. The most glaring responses involve less  of this soft zone that  allows everything and anything underneath and more aggressive blitzing to give your weakened secondary a fighting chance with some help up front.  But the POINT was that they knew Wash wouldn't budge from this scheme and they took away what he needed to have a fighting chance and didn't do enough to replace it. 

Outside of that - I really like what Dave and Doug did to this football team over the offseason. Sincerely.

We will agree to disagree.  More blitzing will expose our already weak secondary.  Mixing things up more?  Sure.  But you are damned if you do, or damned if you don't with this current talent pool.

I really don't know what there is to like about the off-season moves.  Please elaborate.  Because we look like a 2-14 team at the moment who just got our teeth kicked in by the "rebuilding" Miami Dolphins.

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1.  True story.
2.  Every scheme requires talent to be successful.  The 2nd part is your uneducated opinion.
3.  For the most part, we are all just stating opinions.  But on Red Cover 2 (which even a novice can tell the play in question clearly was) the basic fundamentals are facts, not opinions. Anyone who has played or coached knows this (its clear you don't, hence the evidence of your lack of tactical understanding).
4.  Its your opinion (and hubris) that assumes it is the scheme that limits our performance.  And I'm an ex-coach now because it was too much of a grind for me... I missed my free time to enjoy things beyond football.  Plus I make more money and have more time for my kids doing what I do now.    

Peace brother.

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Its not fresh in my mind, so I'd have to look at it again to form an educated opinion.  But the fact that we were in the AFC Championship game and had the #2 rated D in the League suggests scheme was not a problem for some reason that year.

So just a simple statement then, you call it true or false:

Coaching (scheme and concepts, teaching fundamentals and motivation, and game day play calling) has less impact on overall success than the talent of the players. 

Yes or no?

Yes.  Obviously both have an impact, but talents trumps scheme.  If my X can destroy your O, then the scheme is secondary. Its the Jimmy's and the Joe's more than the X's and the O's. The defensive roster of 2017 and 2018 should be enough evidence of that.  Same scheme, different talent, different results.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

And I've got news for you... This scheme takes a crazy amount of talent to be good. Which is entirely the point. That isn't hard to understand.

He's obstinate with his opinion, that's for sure, but if you just understood football you'd recognize his greatness.

No greatness here.  But if you understood football basics, you would could recognize Red Cover 2 when its presented, know its tactical strength is underneath coverage (when executed properly) and know the responsibilities and keys for each player.  If you don't want to take my word for it, read the article I posted or google your own info.  Just basic football X's and O's man.  Football 101.  No need to be embarrassed that you don't understand it... we all have to learn somehow.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

DC has had a hand in one playoff appearance and has had tons of time to do something. He is very deft at having built in excuses. Cap mismanagement and well I had to dump talent but look at the draft picks I get. Bad draft picks, hey you bought in Tom Coughlin and the players hated him. Not my fault.

Khan needs to get right and stop kicking the can down the road.

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Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

He's obstinate with his opinion, that's for sure, but if you just understood football you'd recognize his greatness.

No greatness here.  But if you understood football basics, you would could recognize Red Cover 2 when its presented, know its tactical strength is underneath coverage (when executed properly) and know the responsibilities and keys for each player.  If you don't want to take my word for it, read the article I posted or google your own info.  Just basic football X's and O's man.  Football 101.  No need to be embarrassed that you don't understand it... we all have to learn somehow.

Why do you keep harping on this Red Cover 2 thing as if I don't understand it?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You're missing the point. 

There are indeed ways to scheme this talent level far better than it's being utilized. The most glaring responses involve less  of this soft zone that  allows everything and anything underneath and more aggressive blitzing to give your weakened secondary a fighting chance with some help up front.  But the POINT was that they knew Wash wouldn't budge from this scheme and they took away what he needed to have a fighting chance and didn't do enough to replace it. 

Outside of that - I really like what Dave and Doug did to this football team over the offseason. Sincerely.

We will agree to disagree.  More blitzing will expose our already weak secondary.  Mixing things up more?  Sure.  But you are damned if you do, or damned if you don't with this current talent pool.

I really don't know what there is to like about the off-season moves.  Please elaborate.  Because we look like a 2-14 team at the moment who just got our teeth kicked in by the "rebuilding" Miami Dolphins.

---

So just a simple statement then, you call it true or false:

Coaching (scheme and concepts, teaching fundamentals and motivation, and game day play calling) has less impact on overall success than the talent of the players. 

Yes or no?

Yes.  Obviously both have an impact, but talents trumps scheme.  If my X can destroy your O, then the scheme is secondary.  Its the Jimmy's and the Joe's more than the X's and the O's.  The defensive roster of 2017 and 2018 should be enough evidence of that.  Same scheme, different talent, different results.

So what you're saying is that assembling a roster full of pro bowlers makes a scheme look better than it is. Good, glad we agree.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

No greatness here.  But if you understood football basics, you would could recognize Red Cover 2 when its presented, know its tactical strength is underneath coverage (when executed properly) and know the responsibilities and keys for each player.  If you don't want to take my word for it, read the article I posted or google your own info.  Just basic football X's and O's man.  Football 101.  No need to be embarrassed that you don't understand it... we all have to learn somehow.

Why do you keep harping on this Red Cover 2 thing as if I don't understand it?

In the "Wash's innovative defense" thread where we were discussing it, you talk about it as "an obsolete scheme".  And my comments about it there seemed to have irked you in some way.  That's why.  So if you don't understand that play call being discussed there was strong in that situation, you clearly do not comprehend it.  And you have been quick on criticizing generalities of the defense, but have been very light on specifics of what you don't like or how you would fix things.  That's why.

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We will agree to disagree.  More blitzing will expose our already weak secondary.  Mixing things up more?  Sure.  But you are damned if you do, or damned if you don't with this current talent pool.

I really don't know what there is to like about the off-season moves.  Please elaborate.  Because we look like a 2-14 team at the moment who just got our teeth kicked in by the "rebuilding" Miami Dolphins.

---

Yes.  Obviously both have an impact, but talents trumps scheme.  If my X can destroy your O, then the scheme is secondary.  Its the Jimmy's and the Joe's more than the X's and the O's.  The defensive roster of 2017 and 2018 should be enough evidence of that.  Same scheme, different talent, different results.

So what you're saying is that assembling a roster full of pro bowlers makes a scheme look better than it is. Good, glad we agree.

I 100% agree.  And the flip side of that same coin is a roster full of scrubs makes a scheme look worse than it is. Glad we are in agreement.

I think I've been pretty consistent saying I'm not a Wash fan. But I am also saying, the talent is so bad right now that whatever he calls isn't going to matter much.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Why do you keep harping on this Red Cover 2 thing as if I don't understand it?

In the "Wash's innovative defense" thread where we were discussing it, you talk about it as "an obsolete scheme".  And my comments about it there seemed to have irked you in some way.  That's why.  So if you don't understand that play call being discussed there was strong in that situation, you clearly do not comprehend it.  And you have been quick on criticizing generalities of the defense, but have been very light on specifics of what you don't like or how you would fix things.  That's why.

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So what you're saying is that assembling a roster full of pro bowlers makes a scheme look better than it is. Good, glad we agree.

I 100% agree.  And the flip side of that same coin is a roster full of scrubs makes a scheme look worse than it is.  Glad we are in agreement.

I think I've been pretty consistent saying I'm not a Wash fan.  But I am also saying, the talent is so bad right now that whatever he calls isn't going to matter much.

Ah ok, I see that you got into an argument with some other posters about that play call because of the Taven dropping out thing. You'll notice that I didn't say anything about that one particular play that you keep harping on. What I've said, continually, is that Wash isn't a particularly good coach and his philosophy and scheme aren't going to be successful without a boat load of talent who can overcome his deficiencies. You seem to think that this year's talent is particularly bad whereas I see the same results we had all last year and most of the year before with all the "talented" players we don't have any more.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

In the "Wash's innovative defense" thread where we were discussing it, you talk about it as "an obsolete scheme".  And my comments about it there seemed to have irked you in some way.  That's why.  So if you don't understand that play call being discussed there was strong in that situation, you clearly do not comprehend it.  And you have been quick on criticizing generalities of the defense, but have been very light on specifics of what you don't like or how you would fix things.  That's why.

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I 100% agree.  And the flip side of that same coin is a roster full of scrubs makes a scheme look worse than it is.  Glad we are in agreement.

I think I've been pretty consistent saying I'm not a Wash fan.  But I am also saying, the talent is so bad right now that whatever he calls isn't going to matter much.

Ah ok, I see that you got into an argument with some other posters about that play call because of the Taven dropping out thing. You'll notice that I didn't say anything about that one particular play that you keep harping on. What I've said, continually, is that Wash isn't a particularly good coach and his philosophy and scheme aren't going to be successful without a boat load of talent who can overcome his deficiencies. You seem to think that this year's talent is particularly bad whereas I see the same results we had all last year and most of the year before with all the "talented" players we don't have any more.

I reread it now... I assumed because we were discussing the specifics of that play, that your comments were pertaining to that.  I see this year's defense as much worse than last year.  We are giving up 4 more points per game already on average, but last year's defense was not very talented either.  Stats notwithstanding, this defense appears worse to the eye test (particularly pass rush) than last years... would you agree?  And "most of the year before", meaning 2018, we were the #5 ranked defense in the League, so I strongly disagree with your statement comparing our D now to then.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Ah ok, I see that you got into an argument with some other posters about that play call because of the Taven dropping out thing. You'll notice that I didn't say anything about that one particular play that you keep harping on. What I've said, continually, is that Wash isn't a particularly good coach and his philosophy and scheme aren't going to be successful without a boat load of talent who can overcome his deficiencies. You seem to think that this year's talent is particularly bad whereas I see the same results we had all last year and most of the year before with all the "talented" players we don't have any more.

I reread it now... I assumed because we were discussing the specifics of that play, that your comments were pertaining to that.  I see this year's defense as much worse than last year.  We are giving up 4 more points per game already on average, but last year's defense was not very talented either.  Stats notwithstanding, this defense appears worse to the eye test (particularly pass rush) than last years... would you agree?  And "most of the year before", meaning 2018, we were the #5 ranked defense in the League, so I strongly disagree with your statement comparing our D now to then.

But last years defense had Campbell and Dareus (pre injury) and Bouye and Yannick (and Ramsey for a couple games)
All the guys we had lost and were going to be the reason why our defense was so bad this year

Many of the guys that were key to our successful '17 and '18 defenses. So the roster talent was relatively the same from '18 to '19.
And many stars of the '17 defense were very critical of the DC and his scheme and play calling, so there's that.

I don't think it's all on Wash. Caldwell certainly gutted the defense and skewed young and cheap in the secondary and the DL. We all knew they wouldn't be great this year. Run D is greatly improved already this year while our pass rush is almost no existent, which makes coverage look worse than it is (not that it's been great, the FS has been a liability, Henderson had a bad game vs the Phins, and Hayden has been having his worst year). I think lacking Campbell and Yannick are showing a great deal right now. Allen is still young but ain't getting it done and Chaisson hasn't been used much and is a rookie.
These things can be addressed with time and the draft, and maybe a dip back into free agency.

But the coach and scheme has been relatively the same for awhile... D coordinator since 2016. And in 4+ seasons we've seen more bad than good no matter the talent of the roster.

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I was watching Red Zone yesterday, and in fairly quick succession, I saw Nick Foles throw a TD pass, Alan Robinson catch a TD pass, Tashaun Gipson make an interception, Malik Jackson get a sack, and Yannick Ngakoue get a forced fumble and sack.  I saw all that just casually watching Red Zone for just a couple of hours.  

I'm not drawing any conclusions from all that.  But I did wonder, why are all these ex-Jags out there making plays for other teams, when we could sure use them.  Maybe there's a good reason.   I don't know.

Well, all of them but AR15 were cap related. 

Lol ... we are $25 million under the cap (3rd most cap space in the NFL).    I compare this with the Pittsburgh Pirates where signing top players (like Pitcher Garrett Cole) is not possible due to their high salary demands.  Meanwhile, those players go on to have success while the Jags hang out and draft in the top 10 each year.

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Ah ok, I see that you got into an argument with some other posters about that play call because of the Taven dropping out thing. You'll notice that I didn't say anything about that one particular play that you keep harping on. What I've said, continually, is that Wash isn't a particularly good coach and his philosophy and scheme aren't going to be successful without a boat load of talent who can overcome his deficiencies. You seem to think that this year's talent is particularly bad whereas I see the same results we had all last year and most of the year before with all the "talented" players we don't have any more.

I reread it now... I assumed because we were discussing the specifics of that play, that your comments were pertaining to that.  I see this year's defense as much worse than last year.  We are giving up 4 more points per game already on average, but last year's defense was not very talented either.  Stats notwithstanding, this defense appears worse to the eye test (particularly pass rush) than last years... would you agree?  And "most of the year before", meaning 2018, we were the #5 ranked defense in the League, so I strongly disagree with your statement comparing our D now to then.

I can be persuaded that that the 2018 defense was better than they appear because of how bad the offense was.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Well, all of them but AR15 were cap related. 

Lol ... we are $25 million under the cap (3rd most cap space in the NFL).    I compare this with the Pittsburgh Pirates where signing top players (like Pitcher Garrett Cole) is not possible due to their high salary demands.  Meanwhile, those players go on to have success while the Jags hang out and draft in the top 10 each year.

What success are they having? Jackson didn't play last year, Gipson got cut by the tinhorns after signing for 3 years and is playing for the Bears on a one year vet minimum deal, and Foles didn't beat out Mitchell. Jackson and Gipson were both cut (along with Parnell) to get under the cap going into last year.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Rumor has it that Jernigan is being released.
Jernigan release

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LOVE THEM JAGUARS!