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So, what's going to happen with Minshew?
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(06-15-2021, 05:07 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:(06-15-2021, 04:52 PM)Race Bannon Wrote: The best backup will not hinder his development, but the tradeoff is getting a better supporting cast for Trevor at another position. So I guess the question then is what is the value of a QB2 on this years squad? Is it worth a 5th round pick in 2022? a 4th round pick? Is it only worth young player on a rookie deal? Is it worth an older vet looking to bounce back but who will likely be gone in a few years? We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (06-15-2021, 04:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:(06-15-2021, 03:57 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: For A, can you explain how you are saying they can do both in current Jags situation? I just don't understand that argument. Baalke wasn't with the niners when they drafted him in 2017. His last year there was 2016.
(06-15-2021, 05:47 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:(06-15-2021, 05:36 PM)Race Bannon Wrote: Ertz being feasible is besides the point. It was an illustrative example of how player development can compete with other choices in building a roster. Any trade can be balanced with draft picks. I've concluded that you will argue with literally anything at this point. (06-15-2021, 05:58 PM)rpr52121 Wrote:(06-15-2021, 05:07 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Do you actually think keeping or not keeping Minshew is going to result in a player of Ertz quality being added/not being added to this roster? The problem with this is where do you stop. How important is the backup safety, how important is the 4th choice WR? Do we need a 5th CB? Sadly injuries are a part of the NFL and if one or 2 injuries can destroy your season, you've done a bad job building your roster. You need guys who can come in and play at the same level. You also need competition at positions, i dont like the idea of guys thinking theyre the #1 so job done. They shouldn't crumble having to compete. I'd rather have Lawrence looking at someone like Minshew playing well in camp and think I need to prove I'm better rather than thinking as hes #1 pick and Trevor Lawrence it's his job. (06-15-2021, 06:01 PM)Race Bannon Wrote:(06-15-2021, 05:47 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: The Ertz example being feasible is not "beside the point," because it grossly exaggerates Minshew's likely trade value. This is why your example is not illustrative, but rather contorted. And it says absolutely nothing about player development. I've seen several bad conclusions you've come to in this thread alone. What's one more? Yeah - we can clearly agree to disagree and let the thread move on. (06-15-2021, 05:59 PM)Eric1 Wrote:Ah yeah - he was fired in early 2017. I just saw 2005-2017 and didn't think about that. My bad.(06-15-2021, 04:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Bethard and Baalke are tied from the niners. Beathard's deal isn't so large that it prevents him being cut. 2.75 mil guaranteed is nothing in today's NFL spending. I stand by the second half of that statement about the 2.75 mil Beathard salary being expendable at this point in the NFL. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
The last thing the jags need is a bad back up qb. Please no. At least minshew will bring a little excitement and hope if he has to come in
(06-15-2021, 06:06 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Yea it was on Jan 1st when they gave him the axe. I could have sworn Baalke drafted Beathard as well until I looked it up a few weeks ago while I was reading through some other stuff. I'm sure he was still familiar with him due to scouting though. Agreed about the 2.75m as well. If Minshew is clearly the 2nd best QB on this roster, he should be the back up. That 2.75m should play no role in who gets the nod at #2 or not. (06-15-2021, 11:04 AM)rpr52121 Wrote:(06-15-2021, 10:48 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: I'd be willing to bet exactly zero NFL head coaches agree with this. This is your opinion. Very few coaches are going to cull better options to keep a backup who isn't going to put the team in best position to win should the starter get hurt. I'll grant that few backups are going to replicate the starter's stats or odds to win. Are you saying that teams are setting themselves up to fail if their starter gets hurt? There's a lot more to being a backup than "can throw a ball over them mountains". And yes, I think GM15 has the capability to be a very good backup and maybe a serviceable starter. I don't know if he wants to be a backup, but reality sets in real quick when you set your demand at "start or walk" and everyone watches you walk. I'm trying to figure out your stance - are you saying we should keep him, lest we end up with a backup that leaves us hard pressed to win a game, or move him because you have doubts that he will benefit the team as a backup? (06-15-2021, 11:25 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: Mentor mentor mentor ding ding ding the coaches will mentor. we don't need a third guy to keep the bench warm if we stick with TLaw and Minshew in the QB Room. (06-15-2021, 01:41 PM)Race Bannon Wrote:(06-15-2021, 01:22 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Who are you paraphrasing? OK, let's play this out as armchair GMs. Preseason is wrapping up, and Minshew has looked the part as a quality QB. Beathard has played OK, but at times struggled. Luton is clearly the fourth QB on the depth chart. Kyle Allen has won the starting position in WAS, and they have announced that Fitzpatrick is up for trade or will be released. Do you keep Minshew and his pittance of a salary as your primary backup? Would you prefer to trade him for a fifth or sixth as they have reportedly asked for him and roll with CJB? Do you cast everyone aside and throw down for Fitzy? If you don't want to trade Shew for a fifth, where is the sweet spot where you are willing to part ways with him? We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(06-16-2021, 08:35 AM)Mikey Wrote:(06-15-2021, 01:41 PM)Race Bannon Wrote: The LOL was a nice, friendly touch. It's a joy to converse. It would depend on the cost of Fitz (or someone like him). I would like trade Minshew for a third or fourth for sure (the "sweet spot"). But if it's a 5th or a 6th, Minshew is looking good, and a Fitz will be expensive, I'd just keep Minshew. You need a good backup, so don't look for trouble. The reason to undertake the question is Minshew is not quite a good fit for a team that just brought in a #1 -- he is on the rise, probably wants to go where he has a reasonable chance to start in the next 3 years, and there will probably be no chance of re-signing him anyway. Any and all development of him for the future could be wasted. So may has well get someone a little further along that is happy with the backup role, yet paradoxically is good (a veteran). (06-16-2021, 10:09 AM)Race Bannon Wrote:(06-16-2021, 08:35 AM)Mikey Wrote: OK, let's play this out as armchair GMs. Minshew isn't really on the rise. He was. Now he's put enough bad film on tape to temper that. He's a guy that's done just enough to spark interest from a few teams in need. The assumption that Minshew is not a good fit with Trevor is still just an assumption. You may be right about that, but we aren't in the QB meeting rooms with them to know this. Competition may be the best thing for Trevor. Personally, I'd be more inclined to push him than to saddle him with a grey-bearded mentor type.
I saw that NYC4Jags posted this on Trevor's thread but I will mention it over here too as well because it's relevant. Brian Scohottenheimer mentioned that the Jags haven't named the starting QB yet. I do think that Trevor will more than likely start but I think this shows how highly they think of Gardner. Here is another quote that was made.
https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...9980656645 Darrell Bevell talked about Gardner's intelligence the other day and talked about how they did certain plays with them and wanted to see how he got them in and out of situations. It sounds to me like they are prepping him to start if it's needed. He also said he's glad that he's with the Jags. They still may trade Gardner but may they have changed their mind/or are putting that on pause for the time being.
Mentoring is overrated. Who was Peyton Manning's mentor to teach him the offense in Indy? Nah the coaches ended up bowing to him for direction. What about that backup mentor for Tom Brady? That Drew Bledsoe sure did make Tom the man he is now. I know the all time great Joe Montana sure was hip to training up and helping his replacement Steve Young who wanted to shove him out of the way and oh wait did just that. I seriously doubt some has been backup or marginal talent is really the piece we need to make Trevor Lawrence great.
Please. Minshew is a hungry and cheap player that was saddled with crap coaching and performed despite the awful game planning and game day coaching decisions. If Meyer is all people think he is, well then Minshew will be just fine and I'm sure Trevor Lawrence will be as well.
The Khan Years
Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (06-16-2021, 11:41 AM)MoJagFan Wrote: Mentoring is overrated. Who was Peyton Manning's mentor to teach him the offense in Indy? Nah the coaches ended up bowing to him for direction. What about that backup mentor for Tom Brady? That Drew Bledsoe sure did make Tom the man he is now. I know the all time great Joe Montana sure was hip to training up and helping his replacement Steve Young who wanted to shove him out of the way and oh wait did just that. I seriously doubt some has been backup or marginal talent is really the piece we need to make Trevor Lawrence great. I think that Gardner could take well in Urban's system. Doug was a poor coach. Trevor would not have fared well with him either IMO. (06-16-2021, 11:43 AM)mal234 Wrote:(06-16-2021, 11:41 AM)MoJagFan Wrote: Mentoring is overrated. Who was Peyton Manning's mentor to teach him the offense in Indy? Nah the coaches ended up bowing to him for direction. What about that backup mentor for Tom Brady? That Drew Bledsoe sure did make Tom the man he is now. I know the all time great Joe Montana sure was hip to training up and helping his replacement Steve Young who wanted to shove him out of the way and oh wait did just that. I seriously doubt some has been backup or marginal talent is really the piece we need to make Trevor Lawrence great. I definitely agree. There is a definite ceiling with Gardner compared to Trevor but the day to day coaching, game planning and adjustments in game and through the season have a huge part to play. I really hope that we have a success system to really allow this team to take off. Players have natural abilities and traits that set them up to be successful but coaching sure has hampered this franchise for 15 plus years now. The planning and long term capabilities to make this a franchise have been absent. Everyone loses in the NFL but franchises show how busted they are by the 5 to 10 year records they accumulate and frankly the Shad Khan age has been spoiled.
The Khan Years
Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers. (06-16-2021, 12:48 PM)MoJagFan Wrote:(06-16-2021, 11:43 AM)mal234 Wrote: I think that Gardner could take well in Urban's system. Doug was a poor coach. Trevor would not have fared well with him either IMO. These types of things can definitely make a big difference for QB's. Look at Justin Herbert and the Chargers last year. For as talented, and hard working he is, he could only overcome so much due to bad coaching decisions. Which is why the Chargers lost multiple games last year that largely came down to poor coaching choices. And Justin had huge big games. If he had better coaching they might have been a playoff team (at least a WC). They had several games last year where the score was close. Coaching, game planning, adjustments make a difference. It seems like the coaches are willing to do those things with Gardner if/when necessary. They were already dialing up stuff like tricks plays for him and the offense when he was running with the ones yesterday. In addition to putting him in different situations to see how he reacts. It sounds like they are willing to put in the preparation for him and the team if he ever has to start for some reason (and as long as he's still on the team). That sounds better than what the last coaching staff. They didn't really prepare the team that well and that was a big reason why the team's record was so bad last year.
(06-16-2021, 11:41 AM)MoJagFan Wrote: Mentoring is overrated. Who was Peyton Manning's mentor to teach him the offense in Indy? Nah the coaches ended up bowing to him for direction. What about that backup mentor for Tom Brady? That Drew Bledsoe sure did make Tom the man he is now. I know the all time great Joe Montana sure was hip to training up and helping his replacement Steve Young who wanted to shove him out of the way and oh wait did just that. I seriously doubt some has been backup or marginal talent is really the piece we need to make Trevor Lawrence great. I agree 100 percent. The mentor guy better hope he can learn the offense and make the throws and not suck. This is the pros baby. Get Good or get gone. I’ll mentor his behind right to the bench because it’s him or me. I’m there for 1 reason...and it ain’t to win football games. It’s to get that money! If I do my job but the team loses then oh well. Dog eat dog league. The weak links have to feast or famine. Get outta here with that mentor crap. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
Minshew isn't going anywhere this season unless some team makes the Jags an offer they cannot refuse. (I don't see that happening) He is a competitor, on his rookie deal and will only get better this year. He will be the back up.
A new broom always sweeps clean.
(06-09-2021, 07:26 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: In my opinion getting that low of a pick would be pretty stupid. Well, according to Schottenheimer they haven't decided who's the starter yet. He also praised Minshew and thinks he can be a terrific coach. (06-17-2021, 12:46 PM)CanDoBetter Wrote:(06-09-2021, 07:26 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: In my opinion getting that low of a pick would be pretty stupid. Saban thought Minshew would be a heck of a coach as well. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2854...ed-alabama
The Khan Years
Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers. |
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