Exactly. Probably only NB imo. I think Bartch is gonna be given a shot to start again.

You can't recreate or go all in on slightly advancing a past season. Each season presents new challenges and processes. The reality of the NFL is some players are going to leave no matter what. I wish we could carbon copy last years team and play the 2023 season. Not happening. We are going to take some steps back in certain positions but be surprised by the development or play of some new guys that we didn't pay attention to in the past.

We have a good to great QB with potential and I hope we capitalize and keep going forward. Have to watch and wait. Waiting is the hardest part

Well said.  We aren't going to have this huge influx of talent like we had last offseason.  But we can hope that another year in the system, plus last year's rookies making the 2nd year leap, will put us back in the playoffs.  

It isn't going to be easy, though.  We kind of lucked out last year with Tennessee collapsing from all the injuries they had.  Plus we won a lot of really close games at the end of the season.  I have confidence, but it's not going to be a cake walk.

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Not gonna go thru every game of the season just to prove a point, the Broncos game is a great example and was his first start outside last year.. im sure you can find a couple more, and you absolutely were complaining about the defense because even when Trevor struggled early on all we heard from you and the others were that “well he got us a 4th qtr lead but the d blew it” and 9 times outta 10 it was shaq or tre blowing a deep ball at a critical time .


Regardless of last season, i think its pretty dumb to give guranteed money to a guy who probably should be cut during camp because i cant see a world where we dont draft at least one or two nickel backs in the draft. Same with wingard honestly but at least wingard is at an extremely thin position for us.. herndon will be below everyone on the depth chart come september

Well if you're so convinced he cost us 3 games, you shouldn't have to go through every game to point them out. I would think they would be fresh in your mind. Washington and Indy were both Shaq btw

Yes I know, Shaq was actually worse in clutch situations than Tre was, but both were terrible. And I said 2-3, not a definitive 3.. homie just wants to try and fact check his way into an argument victory instead of just accepting that Tre Herndon wasn't worth the resign... or guranteed money.

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Well if you're so convinced he cost us 3 games, you shouldn't have to go through every game to point them out. I would think they would be fresh in your mind. Washington and Indy were both Shaq btw

You are wasting your time trying to get this guy to tell you the 3 games. He can't tell you because first it didn't happen and second because like many of his posts he just made it up.

I said 2-3. 
First game he started, immediately a game costing bomb over Tre late in the 4th to give the Broncos the lead. I decided it wasn't worth my time to sit and watch every games highlights just to prove a guess amount.

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Well if you're so convinced he cost us 3 games, you shouldn't have to go through every game to point them out. I would think they would be fresh in your mind. Washington and Indy were both Shaq btw

Yes I know, Shaq was actually worse in clutch situations than Tre was, but both were terrible. And I said 2-3, not a definitive 3.. homie just wants to try and fact check his way into an argument victory instead of just accepting that Tre Herndon wasn't worth the resign... or guranteed money.

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You are wasting your time trying to get this guy to tell you the 3 games. He can't tell you because first it didn't happen and second because like many of his posts he just made it up.

I said 2-3. 
First game he started, immediately a game costing bomb over Tre late in the 4th to give the Broncos the lead. I decided it wasn't worth my time to sit and watch every games highlights just to prove a guess amount.

Good god man. He MIGHT be CB4. Let me know a team that has 4 great cornerbacks.

Herndon is just fine for now and it will not prohibit them from upgrading the CB room.

Campbell and Williams start the season on the outside and we will see what happens in the draft/FA.

I’m much more worried about the pass rush and Oline than the CB room at the moment.

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Yes I know, Shaq was actually worse in clutch situations than Tre was, but both were terrible. And I said 2-3, not a definitive 3.. homie just wants to try and fact check his way into an argument victory instead of just accepting that Tre Herndon wasn't worth the resign... or guranteed money.

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I said 2-3. 
First game he started, immediately a game costing bomb over Tre late in the 4th to give the Broncos the lead. I decided it wasn't worth my time to sit and watch every games highlights just to prove a guess amount.

Good god man. He MIGHT be CB4. Let me know a team that has 4 great cornerbacks.

Herndon is just fine for now and it will not prohibit them from upgrading the CB room.

Campbell and Williams start the season on the outside and we will see what happens in the draft/FA.

I’m much more worried about the pass rush and Oline than the CB room at the moment.

It's not nearly as big of a deal as the guy with a hate boner for me made it out to be, I just said I don't see the point in giving guranteed money to a guy who SHOULD be cut at the end of training camp, worst case scenario he should be the 2nd/3rd string nickel corner.. we shouldn't have anything tied into that.

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https://twitter.com/Demetrius82/status/1...44545?s=20

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I see some of you on Herndon’s back again. Also saw where somebody said he lost us 3 games which is not the case. How about let’s talk about how many games he ‘helped’ is win.

And for the money we are paying him, he might be tops in the league for playing time vs pay. He’s no different than when Troy Brown had to step in and play defense for the Patriots. What coaches want is a guy they can put out there on the field and can be trustworthy and do their job. These type of players ain’t game wreckers or playmakers etc.

Herndon, who nobody thinks is Deion Sanders, offers experience and a guy that can step in and play when a starter goes down. Players like Herndon that aren’t physically gifted as others stick around the league for years because they don’t miss team meetings, they attend all the workouts, they sign every autograph, they have no off the field issues, then get along with everybody in the building, they study film, they practice hard everyday, they show up early and leave late, they don’t go out and party, they ain’t on social media talking crap, and when a coach asks them to step into a role they simply says yes sir.

If you know what you’re watching for, you can tell by how Herndon plays that he is one of those players. I’ve seen him playing on the outside and instead of going for a risky tackle with the option for the RB to cut it back, Herndon will stay engaged with the blocking WR and turn his back to the sideline and step up field in order to force the RB back into the teeth of the defense.

A stat padder or someone looking to get noticed on film for a good tackle would put their self before the team and go for that tackle. A good, solid football player will do what Herndon did in that scenario.

Herndon’s roles have went from rookie, to a special teams player, to a backup, to a starter, back to a backup and you never hear a peep. He will now be going into his 6th season (all with the Jaguars). When he was a starter in 2019 and 2020 while playing close to 1,000 snaps both seasons, he still contributed on special teams with 63 and 44 snaps on special teams.

Last season he gave the team 41% of the snaps on defense.

Herndon went from playing 1000 snaps 2 seasons in a row, to playing 32% of the snaps on special teams.

2019 he led the team with 3 interceptions with 13 PD
2020 3rd most solo tackles on team
2022 he forced a critical fumble
2022 he recovered a critical fumble
-5 solo tackles in the playoffs

2022 was one of those seasons where it seemed like every turnover the defense got was absolutely needed because the Jaguars couldn’t not afford to waste any opportunities. Our backs were against the wall the entire season and you can pick out a few plays where Herndon helped the team win the ball game.

His contract is a grain of sand vs his production. If you look all throughout the league, teams have these types of players on their roster every year.

This is probably an odd analogy but when Lebron went from Miami to Cleveland you always saw James Jones on his team. He would give them low minutes with about 3 or 4 points per game. He was a backup player that would step in as a starter when needed.

These types of players are always needed since you can’t have All Pro’s and hall of famers at every position including backups.

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I see some of you on Herndon’s back again. Also saw where somebody said he lost us 3 games which is not the case. How about let’s talk about how many games he ‘helped’ is win.

And for the money we are paying him, he might be tops in the league for playing time vs pay. He’s no different than when Troy Brown had to step in and play defense for the Patriots. What coaches want is a guy they can put out there on the field and can be trustworthy and do their job. These type of players ain’t game wreckers or playmakers etc.

Herndon, who nobody thinks is Deion Sanders, offers experience and a guy that can step in and play when a starter goes down. Players like Herndon that aren’t physically gifted as others stick  around the league for years because they don’t miss team meetings, they attend all the workouts, they sign every autograph, they have no off the field issues, then get along with everybody in the building, they study film, they practice hard everyday, they show up early and leave late, they don’t go out and party, they ain’t on social media talking crap, and when a coach asks them to step into a role they simply says yes sir.

If you know what you’re watching for, you can tell by how Herndon plays that he is one of those players. I’ve seen him playing on the outside and instead of going for a risky tackle with the option for the RB to cut it back, Herndon will stay engaged with the blocking WR and turn his back to the sideline and step up field in order to force the RB back into the teeth of the defense.

A stat padder or someone looking to get noticed on film for a good tackle would put their self before the team and go for that tackle. A good, solid football player will do what Herndon did in that scenario.

Herndon’s roles have went from rookie, to a special teams player, to a backup, to a starter, back to a backup and you never hear a peep. He will now be going into his 6th season (all with the Jaguars). When he was a starter in 2019 and 2020 while playing close to 1,000 snaps both seasons, he still contributed on special teams with 63 and 44 snaps on special teams.

Last season he gave the team 41% of the snaps on defense.

Herndon went from playing 1000 snaps 2 seasons in a row, to playing 32% of the snaps on special teams.

2019 he led the team with 3 interceptions with 13 PD
2020 3rd most solo tackles on team
2022 he forced a critical fumble
2022 he recovered a critical fumble
-5 solo tackles in the playoffs

2022 was one of those seasons where it seemed like every turnover the defense got was absolutely needed because the Jaguars couldn’t not afford to waste any opportunities. Our backs were against the wall the entire season and you can pick out a few plays where Herndon helped the team win the ball game.

His contract is a grain of sand vs his production. If you look all throughout the league, teams have these types of players on their roster every year.

This is probably an odd analogy but when Lebron went from Miami to Cleveland you always saw James Jones on his team. He would give them low minutes with about 3 or 4 points per game. He was a backup player that would step in as a starter when needed.

These types of players are always needed since you can’t have All Pro’s and hall of famers at every position including backups.

Do I really need to go into detail to explain that a guy who likely will be replaced in the draft, and may not even make the 53 man roster shouldn't be given guranteed money? Or that  a guy who maybe made a handful of right place right time plays, who is also responsible for 10 fold the amount of good plays, with bad ones?

He's not good, if he was we woulda lostem in free agency but nobody thought he was worth near vet min. I have no problem with us resigning him as a backup, I think fully guranting a contract for a guy who has a high likely hood of being beat out and possibly cut in training camp is just a dumb move. He isn't good, he's likely never going to be good that money could have been used elsewhere.

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If given the choice between Gotsis and Herndon or Sean Murphy-Bunting I would have preferred the latter.

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Yes I know, Shaq was actually worse in clutch situations than Tre was, but both were terrible. And I said 2-3, not a definitive 3.. homie just wants to try and fact check his way into an argument victory instead of just accepting that Tre Herndon wasn't worth the resign... or guranteed money.

---

I said 2-3. 
First game he started, immediately a game costing bomb over Tre late in the 4th to give the Broncos the lead. I decided it wasn't worth my time to sit and watch every games highlights just to prove a guess amount.

Good god man. He MIGHT be CB4. Let me know a team that has 4 great cornerbacks.

Herndon is just fine for now and it will not prohibit them from upgrading the CB room.

Campbell and Williams start the season on the outside and we will see what happens in the draft/FA.

I’m much more worried about the pass rush and Oline than the CB room at the moment.

Serious, dude is making special teamer money. For us to expect the reserve guys to be shutdown corners is fool's errand. Team game, the team lost those games. Had we scored on every drive, giving up a bomb don't mean dook. Had we not given up a bomb, TLaw maybe doesn't throw a bad pick trying to make something happen, and doesn't experience his light bulb moment.

Maybe we're just on a quest to see if we can get a 100-page thread like some other FA signing we've done in the past.

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Just not sure why people are continuing to gripe about a low investment, insurance policy. Again, free agency is still available year round. We still have the draft. Worst case scenario? He makes the final 53 and is maybe the 4th corner at best after a rookie is added into the mix.

Best case? He gets beat out by two other guys and gets cut or traded for a 7th RD pick. All of it's a moot point if Lawrence takes another herculean step forward and adds 10+ TD's to his bottom line in 2023.

Also, we still have that two corners we drafted from last year that could step up. We might get decent play from one of those guys at some point. I would rather have depth at this point over another high priced free agent where we have to start thinking about 2024 and beyond as well.

Also. If the pass rush improves? So does the secondary.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I see some of you on Herndon’s back again. Also saw where somebody said he lost us 3 games which is not the case. How about let’s talk about how many games he ‘helped’ is win.

And for the money we are paying him, he might be tops in the league for playing time vs pay. He’s no different than when Troy Brown had to step in and play defense for the Patriots. What coaches want is a guy they can put out there on the field and can be trustworthy and do their job. These type of players ain’t game wreckers or playmakers etc.

Herndon, who nobody thinks is Deion Sanders, offers experience and a guy that can step in and play when a starter goes down. Players like Herndon that aren’t physically gifted as others stick  around the league for years because they don’t miss team meetings, they attend all the workouts, they sign every autograph, they have no off the field issues, then get along with everybody in the building, they study film, they practice hard everyday, they show up early and leave late, they don’t go out and party, they ain’t on social media talking crap, and when a coach asks them to step into a role they simply says yes sir.

If you know what you’re watching for, you can tell by how Herndon plays that he is one of those players. I’ve seen him playing on the outside and instead of going for a risky tackle with the option for the RB to cut it back, Herndon will stay engaged with the blocking WR and turn his back to the sideline and step up field in order to force the RB back into the teeth of the defense.

A stat padder or someone looking to get noticed on film for a good tackle would put their self before the team and go for that tackle. A good, solid football player will do what Herndon did in that scenario.

Herndon’s roles have went from rookie, to a special teams player, to a backup, to a starter, back to a backup and you never hear a peep. He will now be going into his 6th season (all with the Jaguars). When he was a starter in 2019 and 2020 while playing close to 1,000 snaps both seasons, he still contributed on special teams with 63 and 44 snaps on special teams.

Last season he gave the team 41% of the snaps on defense.

Herndon went from playing 1000 snaps 2 seasons in a row, to playing 32% of the snaps on special teams.

2019 he led the team with 3 interceptions with 13 PD
2020 3rd most solo tackles on team
2022 he forced a critical fumble
2022 he recovered a critical fumble
-5 solo tackles in the playoffs

2022 was one of those seasons where it seemed like every turnover the defense got was absolutely needed because the Jaguars couldn’t not afford to waste any opportunities. Our backs were against the wall the entire season and you can pick out a few plays where Herndon helped the team win the ball game.

His contract is a grain of sand vs his production. If you look all throughout the league, teams have these types of players on their roster every year.

This is probably an odd analogy but when Lebron went from Miami to Cleveland you always saw James Jones on his team. He would give them low minutes with about 3 or 4 points per game. He was a backup player that would step in as a starter when needed.

These types of players are always needed since you can’t have All Pro’s and hall of famers at every position including backups.

Do I really need to go into detail to explain that a guy who likely will be replaced in the draft, and may not even make the 53 man roster shouldn't be given guranteed money? Or that  a guy who maybe made a handful of right place right time plays, who is also responsible for 10 fold the amount of good plays, with bad ones?

He's not good, if he was we woulda lostem in free agency but nobody thought he was worth near vet min. I have no problem with us resigning him as a backup, I think fully guranting a contract for a guy who has a high likely hood of being beat out and possibly cut in training camp is just a dumb move. He isn't good, he's likely never going to be good that money could have been used elsewhere.

Because what if the next CB we get is Gregory Junior v 2.0? What if Herndon's value is more on Special Teams than it is in dime? That guarantee is acceptable loss, if you end up with someone good enough to unseat a seasoned vet who's prove capable enough to get another contract based on their resume. It's not like we're talking about eating 13mills to rid ourselves of dead weight like we did with Griffin.

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Just not sure why people are continuing to gripe about a low investment, insurance policy. Again, free agency is still available year round. We still have the draft. Worst case scenario? He makes the final 53 and is maybe the 4th corner at best after a rookie is added into the mix.

Best case? He gets beat out by two other guys and gets cut or traded for a 7th RD pick. All of it's a moot point if Lawrence takes another herculean step forward and adds 10+ TD's to his bottom line in 2023.

Also, we still have that two corners we drafted from last year that could step up. We might get decent play from one of those guys at some point. I would rather have depth at this point over another high priced free agent where we have to start thinking about 2024 and beyond as well.

Also. If the pass rush improves? So does the secondary.

Because people like to overreact and then defend their unnecessary overreactions, rather than admit it was no big deal in the first place. 

But, you're right. As has been said many times, 2.58 mil for a backup DB is nothing. Peanuts. 
His vet minimum is 1.5 million. Are we really tripping about that additional 1 mil? Our secondary is cheap right now compared to other position groups. Herndon will be gone before we are paying up to keep Campbell and probably Cisco. 

In fact - Imma stop even giving the topic credence moving forward. 

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In the spirit of moving on, here is a little recap of what the Jags have done with their own FA class and cap from the Daytona paper:

Here is what the Jaguars have done thus far this offseason:

• Re-signed UFAs DB Andrew Wingard, QB C.J. Beathard, DL Adam Gotsis and DB Tre Herndon
  
• Re-signed impending RFAs RB JaMycal Hasty and DB Tevaughn Campbell
  
• Tendered four ERFAs, including PK Riley Patterson, OL Cole Van Lanen and Blake Hance and WR Tim Jones
  
• Exercised franchise tag on TE Evan Engram
  
• Extended contract for DL Roy Robertson-Harris
  
• Restructured deals for LB Foye Oluokun, WRs Zay Jones and Christian Kirkand OL Brandon Scherff
  

In all, the team has retained 11 out of 18 players that were slated to become free agents in some way shape, or form, while also creating over $36 million in cap space by restructuring various contracts. The team saved a little less than $5 million by extending Robertson-Harris.

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I mean Arden key spoke about feeling disrespected by the club

I mean bro, u were good and all but he wsnt a God tier player, gamr changer, he didn't single handily turn the season around for us so idk why he is complaining

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Arden built Jacksonville.

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Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Learn from the great collapse of 2023.  

Arden Key? Oh, you mean dirty stinking tack.

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Arden built Jacksonville.

The way he is getting dragged by Jags SM after making those silly comments is pretty hilarious.

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Arden Key? Oh, you mean dirty stinking tack.

This.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Just not sure why people are continuing to gripe about a low investment, insurance policy. Again, free agency is still available year round. We still have the draft. Worst case scenario? He makes the final 53 and is maybe the 4th corner at best after a rookie is added into the mix.

Best case? He gets beat out by two other guys and gets cut or traded for a 7th RD pick. All of it's a moot point if Lawrence takes another herculean step forward and adds 10+ TD's to his bottom line in 2023.

Also, we still have that two corners we drafted from last year that could step up. We might get decent play from one of those guys at some point. I would rather have depth at this point over another high priced free agent where we have to start thinking about 2024 and beyond as well.

Also. If the pass rush improves? So does the secondary.

Because people like to overreact and then defend their unnecessary overreactions, rather than admit it was no big deal in the first place. 

But, you're right. As has been said many times, 2.58 mil for a backup DB is nothing. Peanuts. 
His vet minimum is 1.5 million. Are we really tripping about that additional 1 mil? Our secondary is cheap right now compared to other position groups. Herndon will be gone before we are paying up to keep Campbell and probably Cisco. 

In fact - Imma stop even giving the topic credence moving forward. 

---

In the spirit of moving on, here is a little recap of what the Jags have done with their own FA class and cap from the Daytona paper:

Here is what the Jaguars have done thus far this offseason:

• Re-signed UFAs DB Andrew Wingard, QB C.J. Beathard, DL Adam Gotsis and DB Tre Herndon
  
• Re-signed impending RFAs RB JaMycal Hasty and DB Tevaughn Campbell
  
• Tendered four ERFAs, including PK Riley Patterson, OL Cole Van Lanen and Blake Hance and WR Tim Jones
  
• Exercised franchise tag on TE Evan Engram
  
• Extended contract for DL Roy Robertson-Harris
  
• Restructured deals for LB Foye Oluokun, WRs Zay Jones and Christian Kirkand OL Brandon Scherff
  

In all, the team has retained 11 out of 18 players that were slated to become free agents in some way shape, or form, while also creating over $36 million in cap space by restructuring various contracts. The team saved a little less than $5 million by extending Robertson-Harris.

I agree, it's not much for a backup DB, absolutely. But why gurantee that money to a guy who could very easily be cut come training camp once we inevitibly draft 1 or 2 dbs? Let's keep in mind our total cap space at the moment is like 5M, this isn't 2017 where we have money to blow...

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After the season ended last year their seemed to be pretty much a consensus on the board on team needs…

- LG
- Possibly RT if Taylor left which he has done
- TE
- Edge
- Interior pass rush
- Slot corner

Realistically the team could come away from the draft filling two of these areas for this upcoming season. I am aware that every team has some areas of weakness and the Jags will be no different. It is, of course, still possible the team will add an affordable free agent at some point.

Which of the above “positions of need” do you not address?

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After the season ended last year their seemed to be pretty much a consensus on the board on team needs…

- LG
- Possibly RT if Taylor left which he has done
- TE
- Edge
- Interior pass rush
- Slot corner

Realistically the team could come away from the draft filling two of these areas for this upcoming season. I am aware that every team has some areas of weakness and the Jags will be no different. It is, of course, still possible the team will add an affordable free agent at some point.

Which of the above “positions of need” do you not address?

RT would be my least concern as the expectations are that our 9.75% cap hit in 2023 in Robinson and a 3rd year, former 2nd RD selection in Little are more than capable of playing either role.

I would say the goal should be landing a quality LG at some point in the draft that has swing tackle ability. Cody Mauch being the most ideal prospect here. In agreement with Jaglou as well. If you need to package up a 4th RD pick or two to secure him in RD2. Do it.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."