(02-20-2019, 02:19 PM)JackCity Wrote:

(02-20-2019, 01:34 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote:  

huh,Bortles has looked like a bottom 5 QB in 3 different seasons, Kap has looked like a starter in all but one, even when he didn't have anything around him in 2016. That isn't comparable.

I disagree. I'm not going to make this into a pro-Bortles thread because I'm ready to move on from him too. Bortles's reputation is exaggerated. He's had bottom-5 stretches of games, but he's also had top-5 stretches. He's not a good QB, but he's not as bad as people pretend him to be, either. He's mostly middle-of-the-road. He certainly hasn't been bottom-5 throughout 3 different entire seasons.

Y'all must forget that Kaep had games I feel is worse than anything Bortles had. His 2015 Cardinals game ended with a 9/19 for 67 yards and 4 INTs. A sub-150 YPG, 4-5 YPA, or 50% game was not uncommon for post-2014 Kaep. 

(02-20-2019, 03:49 PM)Bullseye Wrote:

(02-20-2019, 02:35 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [quote pid='1194168' dateline='1550513348']
Bullseye
(Emphasis added)

As to the italicized portion, I have a few questions for you...

1.  Have you seen the case law for collusion cases?

2.  Do you know what the standard is for summary judgment?

3.  Have you seen the discovery materials related to this case?

Perhaps that's why you don't understand why the suit was allowed to continue.

As to the portion in bold, taking your description of Kaepernick's skills at face value, there are plenty of QBs that have been in the league the past 2-3 years that never even reached the "just decent" level of play, including Blaine Gabbert, Nathan Peterman, and Cody Kessler.

As to the assessment of his last two seasons, I am mystified as to which two seasons you refer.

Statistically, he had one bad season where he had a rating in the 70s....that was 2015, where he had a rating of 78.5.  Beyond that, his post Super Bowl appearance seasons had ratings of 86.4, 78.5, and 90.7-his last year (the one where he was "beaten out" by Gabbert).

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...epCo00.htm

If you want to cite his record as a starter, note the defense in his last year was rock bottom in the league in many many categories, including points allowed and yards.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...o/2016.htm

Also note the team's W-L problems continued after he left.  As it stands now, the 49ers pick 2nd in the draft.  It isn't because of Kaepernick, and they didn't trade up to get that spot.

It's disingenuous to blame him for all of that.

No, admittedly I don't know what's required for collusion cases, but I also wouldn't assume his case would justify an estimated $60M settlement. A number, if true, is likely significantly less than what he asked. I don't pretend to know if his case is text book collusion, but that's also partly why I said I don't understand why it was allowed to continued. Similarly, I'd ask if you know (and how you know) if his case is one of collusion. It's difficult to understand your first and second points since I don't know of any other instances in sports where collusion was cited. 

I think you may be confusing my point.

I never said he didn't belong in the NFL. I do believe teams avoided him because of his protesting, but I believe teams use personal reasons to avoid players. If he was good enough to overlook his protesting, I don't doubt he'd still be on a team. My stance is that he's overrated and hasn't produced a season worthy of praise. He had a couple decent seasons. However, like how you contribute some of their failures to their defense, I contribute some of their success to the defense.

Defensive rankings:
2012--3rd
2013--5th
2014--10th
2015--29th
2016--32nd

I think this hurts your stance. They were only good when their defense was good. Kaep was just good enough to take advantage of that, but he wasn't good enough to overcome it.

(Emphasis added)

I will not go into the case law regarding collusion, other than to say there were plenty of collusion cases in the major league baseball context. I would also add Kaepernick's attorney is a long time and famous attorney.  I'm betting he researched the proper cause9s) of action before filing suit.

As to the portion in bold, I would like to point out a few things:

1.  Alex Smith had the same defense and still couldn't reach the Super Bowl.  Kaepernick did reach the Super bowl with the same team.  Admittedly, I haveb't taken an inventory (physical or mental) of your posts, nor have I utilized the search feature, but I do not recall any decrees from you lamenting the overrated status of Alex Smith.

2.  During his last season with the 49ers, Kaepernick had a 16-4 TD-INT ratio.  How can he be blamed for the failure of the defense?  How can he be blamed for Gabbert's failures?  Gabbert started ten (10) fewer games and threw two more INTs than Kaepernick. I think the premise that Kaep was only good when the defense was good is false.

On a related note, how much is a QB supposed to overcome?  If you have a star caliber QB and the rest of the team stinks, should the star QB take the blame if the team does not have a winning record?  Aaron Rodgers and Matt Ryan have made pro Bowls and Super Bowls, but both finished with losing records this past season.  Does this mean they are no longer good QBs?
[/quote]

The mere filing of a lawsuit doesn't validate it's existence. 

1. Alex Smith is overrated, too. But he's far better than anything Kaep has ever been. I'm not sure I have to openly criticize someone to have an opinion. I wouldn't say what I'm doing with Kaep as lamenting, either. I simply think he's overrated, and he brings too much drama to justify his place on a team.

2. That's a decent TD-INT ratio. He was also had 59.2% and 186 YPG. The defense isn't solely responsible for their failures. The largest contributor? Sure. He didn't do anything to help his team... which is my point. He isn't a good QB. Because he isn't a good QB, he isn't worth the heartache. Your TD-INT ratio doesn't prove he was good. We know that, when given the burden of carrying the team, he failed miserably. Great defenses carry bad QBs all the time (Jags last year). What makes you think the 49ers were an exception?

3. I think a decent QB can at least achieve 62% and 220 YPG in today's NFL. The standard that a good QB must win a pro-bowl or Superbowl is one you set. Kaep couldn't even consistently drive his offense downfield. Their bad defense didn't stop them from doing that.

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