QBR is not a viable stat. Plenty of posters on here have proven that.

That is a clueless statement.  And there is no poster on this board capable of "proving" that.  lmao

The QBR and wins are the two best combined stats to gauge QB play.  If its not, you tell me what is.

QBR is, and always has been a trash stat dude. I mean, just look at this..

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That is a clueless statement.  And there is no poster on this board capable of "proving" that.  lmao

The QBR and wins are the two best combined stats to gauge QB play.  If its not, you tell me what is.

QBR is, and always has been a trash stat dude. I mean, just look at this..

By no means is any one stat perfect... but you are showing your ignorance.  QBR takes into account more information than the simple-minded Passer Rating.  If you want to educate yourself... here:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1765...-qb-rating

It takes a deeper analytical dive than just looking at the simple stat line, like you are displaying here.  And the strength of QBR is over time.  In other words, over the season versus an individual game.  Go check out the current QBR rankings and tell me where you'd change them based on this year's play so far. There would be a few small changes, but they are pretty close. Better than Passer Rating, and definitely better than the elementary passing yards stat. They take the context of the numbers into consideration on a deeper level; adjusting for things like "garbage time" stats, game situations, and quality of opponent. Again, not perfect but QBR and wins are as good as anything... short of grading each play of the game individually like coaches do. If not, you tell me what you think is better.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Progressonoffense? Didnt they go 4 straught three and outs to open the game? Thats pathetic.

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We aren’t competitive, y’all whine.

We are competitive, y’all whine.

“BuT a SpEcIaL tEaMs ToUcHdOwN”

Would you rather then not try to block the punt?

I hate saying it but I know in the long run it’s better for this team to lose out; but I at least came to that hill to die on and am sticking with it.

Pick one.

As far as Minshew, he’s the best we got and there’s no help on the way. At the end of the day, very few QBs could push this team to more wins, let alone a winning record, between our inept coaches, Karl Rove and Valerie Plame defense, and one good receiver who teams will blanket knowing we don’t have much else to throw too. The roster from top to bottom is deficient barring a few exceptions

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I'm amused that so many are buying the "Oehser Narrative" which he let out of the bag after last week's loss. While he ducks and dodges giving any real responsibility for this dreadful losing spell to Caldwell and Marrone and Wash, he did let out the telling gem that with a "better quarterback" we should be sitting safely at 3-3 after six games and it's NONE of their fault really.

Guess what buying this load of mule poop does? It absolves his buddies Marrone, Wash and Caldwell from any meaningful responsibility for this mess and lays it all at Minshew's feet. And guess what's next?

"Uh, Shad, we had this thing headed in the right direction, but Minshew regressed so badly we can't be held responsible. I think you should bring us back next year when we have a fair shot with a new QB!"

And buckle up for another year of the three of them riding tall in the saddle. Meanwhile, I'm hoping GM15 gets out of this sinkhole to go play with a real franchise and like magic his arm strength and accuracy all of a sudden will no longer be the topic of passionate conversation and his play improves dramatically. (See: Foles, Nick...)

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I am sorry... what is the Bengals record again??  WITH A.J. Green, Tyler Boyd, Joe Mixon and Joe Burrow?  Along with a few 1st round picks on the Offensive line.  Their record is 1-5-1.  Green, Boyd and Higgins for that matter are both all 1 receiver talent.  We don't have anything NEAR that quality on the Jaguars.  You are once again expecting a College first year QB to come in and just blow the lid off this team when there are many gaps around the QB position that need to be filled, both in coaching, front office, etc.   We have done Gabbert, Bortles.... they both stunk (except for a single year and that was the superior D which is pretty much disassembled).  Crazy how everyone wants Minshew gone, especially when you see how he is running for his life almost every play.  We got to learn from our mistakes, not keep making them in the draft.

He's running for his life because he holds the ball too long.  Football 101.  When you see him at your next cousins picnic, tell him to get rid of it faster.

We are going to agree to disagree.

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QBR is not a viable stat. Plenty of posters on here have proven that.

That is a clueless statement.  And there is no poster on this board capable of "proving" that.  lmao

The QBR and wins are the two best combined stats to gauge QB play.  If its not, you tell me what is.

Passer rating.

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That is a clueless statement.  And there is no poster on this board capable of "proving" that.  lmao

The QBR and wins are the two best combined stats to gauge QB play.  If its not, you tell me what is.

Passer rating.

Passer Rating is a simplistic stat that accounts for 4 measurements.  QBR takes into account all those and more.  QBR applies context; Passer Rating does not.  You may like Passer Rating because its simple, but QBR is the better measurement.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

QBR is the best measurement because it devalues garbage stats that QBs achieve when their team is down by 20 and the defense goes into prevent mode. The Jags QBs have notoriously sucked in the 1st half but looked decent in the 2nd half when the game is already out of hand.

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I'm amused that so many are buying the "Oehser Narrative" which he let out of the bag after last week's loss. While he ducks and dodges giving any real responsibility for this dreadful losing spell to Caldwell and Marrone and Wash,  he did let out the telling gem that with a "better quarterback" we should be sitting safely at 3-3 after six games and it's NONE of their fault really.

Guess what buying this load of mule poop does? It absolves his buddies Marrone, Wash and Caldwell from any meaningful responsibility for this mess and lays it all at Minshew's feet. And guess what's next?

"Uh, Shad, we had this thing headed in the right direction, but Minshew regressed so badly we can't be held responsible. I think you should bring us back next year when we have a fair shot with a new QB!"

And buckle up for another year of the three of them riding tall in the saddle. Meanwhile, I'm hoping GM15 gets out of this sinkhole to go play with a real franchise and like magic  his arm strength and accuracy all of a sudden will no longer  be the topic of passionate conversation and his play improves dramatically. (See: Foles, Nick...)

TIL....Oehser is still writing.
(and apparently some are still reading?)

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That is a clueless statement.  And there is no poster on this board capable of "proving" that.  lmao

The QBR and wins are the two best combined stats to gauge QB play.  If its not, you tell me what is.

Passer rating.

What?

No, passer rating is a garbage stat.

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Passer rating.

Passer Rating is a simplistic stat that accounts for 4 measurements.  QBR takes into account all those and more.  QBR applies context; Passer Rating does not.  You may like Passer Rating because its simple, but QBR is the better measurement.

We can respectfully disagree. I appreciate the subtle jab there though.

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Passer Rating is a simplistic stat that accounts for 4 measurements.  QBR takes into account all those and more.  QBR applies context; Passer Rating does not.  You may like Passer Rating because its simple, but QBR is the better measurement.

We can respectfully disagree. I appreciate the subtle jab there though.

I do throw the occasional jab, but not in this case.  QBR is a very complex assessment and difficult to understand compared to a simpler stat like Passer Rating.  With QBR, a completion for a 5 yard gain is valued more on 3rd and 3 to the get the 1st down versus 3rd and 12. Run after catch is factored in, so Minshew's nice TD throw in the end zone against LA is valued more than his check down pass to Robinson, where the running back made an amazing play and ran it in on his own merit for the TD. ESPN protects its intellectual property and does not release their full algorithm for it, only telling you what is considered in the evaluation.  Contrast that with Passer Rating, where anyone with basic math skills can calculate it from the stat line.  Not at shot at you... in this case, anyway.  lol

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

We can respectfully disagree. I appreciate the subtle jab there though.

I do throw the occasional jab, but not in this case.  QBR is a very complex assessment and difficult to understand compared to a simpler stat like Passer Rating.  A completion for a 5 yard gain is evaluated higher on 3rd and 3 to the get the 1st down versus 3rd and 12.  Run after catch is factored in, so Minshew's nice TD throw in the end zone against LA is valued more than his check down to Robinson where he made an amazing play and ran it in for the TD.  ESPN protects its intellectual property and does not release their full algorithm for it, only telling you what is considered in the evaluation.  Anyone with basic math skills can calculate Passer Rating from the stat line.  Not at shot at you... in this case, anyway.  lol

I think the fact that QBR takes into account the defense played against is, well, awesome! It is also probably why Minshews QBR is not very good as well, as the last 4-5 teams he has played have not had the best defenses. This is one of the reasons I have been so critical of him, the Dolphins, Bengals, and Lions games should have seen monster stats from him. Instead he had QBR in the 30s for those games... 

And while certainly you can’t expect a QB to carry a team completely- you should see a QB making some things happen.

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I do throw the occasional jab, but not in this case.  QBR is a very complex assessment and difficult to understand compared to a simpler stat like Passer Rating.  A completion for a 5 yard gain is evaluated higher on 3rd and 3 to the get the 1st down versus 3rd and 12.  Run after catch is factored in, so Minshew's nice TD throw in the end zone against LA is valued more than his check down to Robinson where he made an amazing play and ran it in for the TD.  ESPN protects its intellectual property and does not release their full algorithm for it, only telling you what is considered in the evaluation.  Anyone with basic math skills can calculate Passer Rating from the stat line.  Not at shot at you... in this case, anyway.  lol

I think the fact that QBR takes into account the defense played against is, well, awesome! It is also probably why Minshews QBR is not very good as well, as the last 4-5 teams he has played have not had the best defenses. This is one of the reasons I have been so critical of him, the Dolphins, Bengals, and Lions games should have seen monster stats from him. Instead he had QBR in the 30s for those games... 

And while certainly you can’t expect a QB to carry a team completely- you should see a QB making some things happen.

Agreed.  If you want to look at an individual game... you can make the argument that Passer Rating may be the better stat.  But after 6 or 7 games and to evaluate a body of work during the season, QBR clearly provides more and better information with context.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

I'm amused that so many are buying the "Oehser Narrative" which he let out of the bag after last week's loss. While he ducks and dodges giving any real responsibility for this dreadful losing spell to Caldwell and Marrone and Wash,  he did let out the telling gem that with a "better quarterback" we should be sitting safely at 3-3 after six games and it's NONE of their fault really.

Guess what buying this load of mule poop does? It absolves his buddies Marrone, Wash and Caldwell from any meaningful responsibility for this mess and lays it all at Minshew's feet. And guess what's next?

"Uh, Shad, we had this thing headed in the right direction, but Minshew regressed so badly we can't be held responsible. I think you should bring us back next year when we have a fair shot with a new QB!"

And buckle up for another year of the three of them riding tall in the saddle. Meanwhile, I'm hoping GM15 gets out of this sinkhole to go play with a real franchise and like magic  his arm strength and accuracy all of a sudden will no longer  be the topic of passionate conversation and his play improves dramatically. (See: Foles, Nick...)

Foles still sucks.  He has more INTs than TDs this season.

Minshew is not good enough.  The coaching staff is not good enough.  The GM is not good enough.  It is allowed to be all 3.

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Foles still sucks.  He has more INTs than TDs this season.

Minshew is not good enough.  The coaching staff is not good enough.  The GM is not good enough.  It is allowed to be all 3.

Agreed.  On all points.  We need a full reset here, and I am optimistic we will get it after the season.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Foles still sucks.  He has more INTs than TDs this season.

Minshew is not good enough.  The coaching staff is not good enough.  The GM is not good enough.  It is allowed to be all 3.

Agreed.  On all points.  We need a full reset here, and I am optimistic we will get it after the season.

Lol, optimism? About the #becausejaguars?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

We can respectfully disagree. I appreciate the subtle jab there though.

I do throw the occasional jab, but not in this case.  QBR is a very complex assessment and difficult to understand compared to a simpler stat like Passer Rating.  With QBR, a completion for a 5 yard gain is valued more on 3rd and 3 to the get the 1st down versus 3rd and 12.  Run after catch is factored in, so Minshew's nice TD throw in the end zone against LA is valued more than his check down pass to Robinson, where the running back made an amazing play and ran it in on his on merit for the TD.  ESPN protects its intellectual property and does not release their full algorithm for it, only telling you what is considered in the evaluation.  Contrast that with Passer Rating, where anyone with basic math skills can calculate it from the stat line.  Not at shot at you... in this case, anyway.  lol

QBR takes a legitimate problem but way way way overcomplicates the solution.  
For instance, why shouldn't the QB get credit for YAC.  The QB chose to throw the ball to the guy who was open enough to get YAC.  The QB presumably hit the guy in stride to set up good YAC.
YAC is not the problem.
And then the garbage time argument.  If the QB had hit his marks in the first and second quarters, there would be no garbage time.  His bad play in the first half gets averaged with the better play in the second half, so as long as we are looking at complete games, what's the issue?

I would rate QB's much more simply.
I'd just make 3 adjustments to the old passer rating:


1) Pass yards on 3rd and 4th down count as 0 unless the play results in a 1st down. 
2) QB sacks count as pass attempts, and yards lost to sacks count against pass yards
3) passer rating counts interceptions more than touchdowns.  That's usually backwards; most interceptions don't change the game much.  So make touchdown passes worth more positive points than interceptions are negative, but, an interception returned for a touchdown or an interception that allows the other team to run out the clock, cancels out a touchdown.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

QBR takes a legitimate problem but way way way overcomplicates the solution.  
For instance, why shouldn't the QB get credit for YAC.  The QB chose to throw the ball to the guy who was open enough to get YAC.  The QB presumably hit the guy in stride to set up good YAC.
YAC is not the problem.
And then the garbage time argument.  If the QB had hit his marks in the first and second quarters, there would be no garbage time.  His bad play in the first half gets averaged with the better play in the second half, so as long as we are looking at complete games, what's the issue?

I would rate QB's much more simply.
I'd just make 3 adjustments to the old passer rating:


1) Pass yards on 3rd and 4th down count as 0 unless the play results in a 1st down. 
2) QB sacks count as pass attempts, and yards lost to sacks count against pass yards
3) passer rating counts interceptions more than touchdowns.  That's usually backwards; most interceptions don't change the game much.  So make touchdown passes worth more positive points than interceptions are negative, but, an interception returned for a touchdown or an interception that allows the other team to run out the clock, cancels out a touchdown.

I will preface this by saying there is no one perfect stat.  But what you are saying here is Minshew's two touchdown passes against the Chargers should be viewed equally?  I strongly disagree there, and that is the strength of the QBR over Passer Rating.  Minshew dropping a dime to Conley was a GREAT pass, his dump off to Robinson was ALL Robinson... you or I could have made that throw.  Context matters.

Regarding "most interceptions don't change the game much".... WHAT?!?!  Turnovers are one of the biggest determinants of wins and losses in football.  Now SOME interceptions aren't as big a deal as others... like throwing a bomb to the end zone at the end of a half or game where you don't care much if it gets picked off.  QBR takes that into account... Passer Rating does not.  Context matters.

Is QBR complicated?  Absolutely.  But so is evaluating quarterback play. QBR takes into account more information and provides a better evaluation than the simplified Passer Rating.  Context matters.

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Agreed.  On all points.  We need a full reset here, and I am optimistic we will get it after the season.

Lol, optimism? About the #becausejaguars?

I understand your concerns.  But even Khan can see you can't have a lame duck front office going into the 2021 off-season with multiple first round picks and a ton of cap space to spend.  You either have to extend the FO this year or fire them; and it would be impossible to do the former.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.