Mad respect for Jags02's ability to throw the numbers around. I am not math challenged in any way but my eyes glaze over when this stuff comes out.

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Season Ticket holder since 2004.

 

        

This is why you draft well, so you aren't stuck gutting the cap for 3 players. I have this terrible feeling Ramsey ends up in a Tack jersey when its all said and done.

Not going to happen. The team actually holds the leverage. Worst case scenario is franchise tag/hold out scenario like Bell. 
He's either gonna be a Jag and eventually a really well paid one, or he won't play. And if it comes to the point where we run out of the ability to franchise him, we'll have used him for his best days already.

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Worrying about cap space for 2020.

SMH.

Not much else to talk about really until the bullets start flying

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This is why you draft well, so you aren't stuck gutting the cap for 3 players. I have this terrible feeling Ramsey ends up in a Tack jersey when its all said and done.

I half-tempted to ban you for this comment.

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'02

I'm not sure actually.
I just remember hearing those numbers separately.

Using Spotrac we're at -31 mil for 2019, so take away 18 mil rollover we'd be at -13....
so I'm honestly not sure who has all the right info... but I think Johnny O was where I saw the cap issue basically ignored as 'not an issue'.

I'll try to clear this up...

Basically, Spotrac says the Jaguars are $31.4 mil over where Overthecap says they are $19.4 mil over. So let's work this out...

For starters, let's figure out the Jaguars total cap for 2019. According to Spotrac, it's $218.36 mil where Overthecap has the Jaguars at $217.9 mil. These are close, so to be safe I'll use the higher figure of $218.4 mil. 

Next up, we need to look at their salary cap estimate for 2019. Spotrac uses $187 mil which is where they are this year, but it's more likely to increase a little. Overthecap uses a $190 mil estimate which I feel is closer to what it will be. So in this case, I'm ditching the safer route for what appears to be the more accurate route and I'll use $190 mil. This, in turn, brings Spotrac's figure to $28.4 mil over.

Next, we have to consider that only the top 51 contracts count against the cap in the offseason, which means they don't have to account for the entire $218.4 mil. Overthecap figures the Jaguars top 51 contracts to account for $209.4 mil. I'm contemplating if I should add the $500,000 because of the total cap difference, but actually, that amount is more likely the addition of another minimum wage contract which would not count under top 51 rules. So I'm going to say this $209.4 mil figure is correct for the top 51.

The difference between their total cap of $218.4 mil and the top 51 amount of $209.4 mil is $9 mil. Taking $9 mil off my latest Spotrac figure of $28.4 mil brings us to $19.4 mil under the cap.

The lower Overthecap figure is correct, and this is not accounting for any turnover money. So, if there is $18 mil in rollover money, this would bring the Jaguars to $1.4 mil over the cap.

There is a lot Spotrac doesn't factor in it seems. Almost like they use "raw" numbers not accounting for all the loopholes (prorating signing bonuses, rollover, etc etc)

Thanks for doing the work many of us are too lazy to do lol

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This is why you draft well, so you aren't stuck gutting the cap for 3 players. I have this terrible feeling Ramsey ends up in a Tack jersey when its all said and done.

Not going to happen. The team actually holds the leverage. Worst case scenario is franchise tag/hold out scenario like Bell. 
He's either gonna be a Jag and eventually a really well paid one, or he won't play. And if it comes to the point where we run out of the ability to franchise him, we'll have used him for his best days already.

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Worrying about cap space for 2020.

SMH.

Not much else to talk about really until the bullets start flying

Two totally different situations. LeVeon Bell is a RB. He likely wont be a valuable player in 4 years. 

Great CB's can stay on top into their 30's. I see know reason not to pay Jalen what he wants in a few years. 

That being said... I have no clue what the Rams and Raiders are doing with Donald and Mack. Its not easy to find superstars of that caliber. Just pay them!

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I'll try to clear this up...

Basically, Spotrac says the Jaguars are $31.4 mil over where Overthecap says they are $19.4 mil over. So let's work this out...

For starters, let's figure out the Jaguars total cap for 2019. According to Spotrac, it's $218.36 mil where Overthecap has the Jaguars at $217.9 mil. These are close, so to be safe I'll use the higher figure of $218.4 mil. 

Next up, we need to look at their salary cap estimate for 2019. Spotrac uses $187 mil which is where they are this year, but it's more likely to increase a little. Overthecap uses a $190 mil estimate which I feel is closer to what it will be. So in this case, I'm ditching the safer route for what appears to be the more accurate route and I'll use $190 mil. This, in turn, brings Spotrac's figure to $28.4 mil over.

Next, we have to consider that only the top 51 contracts count against the cap in the offseason, which means they don't have to account for the entire $218.4 mil. Overthecap figures the Jaguars top 51 contracts to account for $209.4 mil. I'm contemplating if I should add the $500,000 because of the total cap difference, but actually, that amount is more likely the addition of another minimum wage contract which would not count under top 51 rules. So I'm going to say this $209.4 mil figure is correct for the top 51.

The difference between their total cap of $218.4 mil and the top 51 amount of $209.4 mil is $9 mil. Taking $9 mil off my latest Spotrac figure of $28.4 mil brings us to $19.4 mil under the cap.

The lower Overthecap figure is correct, and this is not accounting for any turnover money. So, if there is $18 mil in rollover money, this would bring the Jaguars to $1.4 mil over the cap.

There is a lot Spotrac doesn't factor in it seems. Almost like they use "raw" numbers not accounting for all the loopholes (prorating signing bonuses, rollover, etc etc)

Thanks for doing the work many of us are too lazy to do lol

Part of the problem, and part of the reason I stopped doing the Salary Cap Thread so many years ago, is that the NFLPA stopped reporting the numbers for player contracts and where teams were under the cap. Now we have independent sites like Spotrac and Overthecap doing what I used to do, but they can only estimate to the best of their knowledge. That is, these are not official sites with the official numbers. If only they knew that to improve their cap knowledge, they should have hired me. 

Having said that, if anyone notices a report that appears to be the official quotes of where we are under the cap, let me know. Unfortunately, most reports that do show these amounts are simply using Overthecap.com. 

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'02

Not going to happen. The team actually holds the leverage. Worst case scenario is franchise tag/hold out scenario like Bell. 
He's either gonna be a Jag and eventually a really well paid one, or he won't play. And if it comes to the point where we run out of the ability to franchise him, we'll have used him for his best days already.

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Not much else to talk about really until the bullets start flying

Two totally different situations. LeVeon Bell is a RB. He likely wont be a valuable player in 4 years. 

Great CB's can stay on top into their 30's. I see know reason not to pay Jalen what he wants in a few years. 

That being said... I have no clue what the Rams and Raiders are doing with Donald and Mack. Its not easy to find superstars of that caliber. Just pay them!

Yeah... I'm just sayin the worst case scenario for the Jags is playing Jalen on the 5th year option, and then franchise tagging him twice... There is no way he is a tack or on any other team before 2020/2021.

I think the Rams are being silly.
I think the Raiders hurt themselves signing Carr to that deal he got (along with some other questionable cap moves the past 2 years

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Ramsey is not going anywhere... he will be here for a long time

also, I continue to just shake my head how some of you talk about campbell and jackson as if we can just easily cut them after this year and suffer no loss.. Those of you thinking that are in for a HUGE wake up call if the team were to do so.

That is one of the DUMBEST things I have seen on this board, and I have seen MANY over the last decade

now... cutting campbell AFTER NEXT SEASON, that makes a tad more sense, as he will have been with us 3 years and have 1 left but by then he is in his mid 30's and may have slowed down, but if dude puts up 10 sacks this year and next year, I am paying him for it in his final year.

When it comes to Jackson, I think he has 2 years left with us? If he has another good year this year like he should, he stays for his final year. Now, do we resign him after that? well, if he wants another massive pay day probably not, but there's no way I am cutting a probowl DT who is still in his 20's after this season.

Dareus, again, lets see how he finishes up. You dont just cut stud talent to save money. Guys I would cut way before these guys in order to save money are Parnell and Church, those 2 are way more replaceable than the previously mentioned group.

We will find a way to keep Jalen, Yannick, and Myles, and yes, we HAVE to keep all 3. But we have 2 more seasons with them being paid as rookies, in which case, we should be keeping campbell, jackson, and dareus for both

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Jags 02--I actually had a nightmare that Ramsey signed with the Tacks. He is from the Nashville area. Maybe he grew up a Titans fan.

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Ramsey is not going anywhere... he will be here for a long time

also, I continue to just shake my head how some of you talk about campbell and jackson as if we can just easily cut them after this year and suffer no loss..  Those of you thinking that are in for a HUGE wake up call if the team were to do so.

That is one of the DUMBEST things I have seen on this board, and I have seen MANY over the last decade

now... cutting campbell AFTER NEXT SEASON, that makes a tad more sense, as he will have been with us 3 years and have 1 left but by then he is in his mid 30's and may have slowed down, but if dude puts up 10 sacks this year and next year, I am paying him for it in his final year.

When it comes to Jackson, I think he has 2 years left with us?  If he has another good year this year like he should, he stays for his final year.  Now, do we resign him after that?  well, if he wants another massive pay day probably not, but there's no way I am cutting a probowl DT who is still in his 20's after this season.

Dareus, again, lets see how he finishes up.  You dont just cut stud talent to save money.  Guys I would cut way before these guys in order to save money are Parnell and Church, those 2 are way more replaceable than the previously mentioned group.

We will find a way to keep Jalen, Yannick, and Myles, and yes, we HAVE to keep all 3.  But we have 2 more seasons with them being paid as rookies, in which case, we should be keeping campbell, jackson, and dareus for both

Simmer down...
Good teams have to get rid of good talent all the time.
Also.. better to get rid of em a year early than a year late.

Regardless... the point of the matter is there is no need to worry about signing Jalen and those guys, this team is gonna get it done.
They'll get it done by cutting aging free agents, like the ones listed above.
When, where, and how doesn't matter as long as we keep our core guys and we maintain our level of play.

But breaking even at the cap next year with the rollover before draft selections means someone is probably gonna go after this season.

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This is why you draft well, so you aren't stuck gutting the cap for 3 players. I have this terrible feeling Ramsey ends up in a Tack jersey when its all said and done.

You should be more worried about our sun becoming a red giant and evaporating the earth. It will happen sooner than Ramsey wearing another teams jersey.

You remember how many teams Deion and Revis played for, right? They may be the two best corners in recent memory, and their loyalty was to the paycheck, not the helmet logo. I definitely see Ramsey playing under a second contract with the franchise, but it is extremely rare in today's game for a player to only suit up for one franchise.

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You should be more worried about our sun becoming a red giant and evaporating the earth. It will happen sooner than Ramsey wearing another teams jersey.

You remember how many teams Deion and Revis played for, right? They may be the two best corners in recent memory, and their loyalty was to the paycheck, not the helmet logo. I definitely see Ramsey playing under a second contract with the franchise, but it is extremely rare in today's game for a player to only suit up for one franchise.

But what were the cap situations like for those teams?
The jests paid Revis until they thought he was no longer worth it (and they were a bad team) so he went about collecting big 1 year deals. But when he left the jests he wasn't the same imo. He had become the 3rd or 4th best CB. "Revis Island" really only existed for like 5 seasons. All in his original stint with his original team.
Deion played for the Falcons on a rookie deal, then got on a one year deal by the 9ers (Monster season alert), then got paid in Dallas who had to cut him due to salary cap, after that he wasn't the same Primetime and only played one year in DC and then came out of retirement to play in Baltimore.
The difference, imo, is the way deals are done and the franchise tag. Free agency is quite a bit different too.
Ramsey can be locked in much more than Primetime was in ATL. We can afford to pay him and if we're winning he'll want to stay. I could see him maybe going to play for the tacks but it'd be much later in his career after we're pretty much done with him (either he is no longer the top CB or our window for SB closed)

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Ramsey is not going anywhere... he will be here for a long time

also, I continue to just shake my head how some of you talk about campbell and jackson as if we can just easily cut them after this year and suffer no loss..  Those of you thinking that are in for a HUGE wake up call if the team were to do so.

That is one of the DUMBEST things I have seen on this board, and I have seen MANY over the last decade

now... cutting campbell AFTER NEXT SEASON, that makes a tad more sense, as he will have been with us 3 years and have 1 left but by then he is in his mid 30's and may have slowed down, but if dude puts up 10 sacks this year and next year, I am paying him for it in his final year.

When it comes to Jackson, I think he has 2 years left with us?  If he has another good year this year like he should, he stays for his final year.  Now, do we resign him after that?  well, if he wants another massive pay day probably not, but there's no way I am cutting a probowl DT who is still in his 20's after this season.

Dareus, again, lets see how he finishes up.  You dont just cut stud talent to save money.  Guys I would cut way before these guys in order to save money are Parnell and Church, those 2 are way more replaceable than the previously mentioned group.

We will find a way to keep Jalen, Yannick, and Myles, and yes, we HAVE to keep all 3.  But we have 2 more seasons with them being paid as rookies, in which case, we should be keeping campbell, jackson, and dareus for both

Simmer down...
Good teams have to get rid of good talent all the time.
Also.. better to get rid of em a year early than a year late.

Regardless... the point of the matter is there is no need to worry about signing Jalen and those guys, this team is gonna get it done.
They'll get it done by cutting aging free agents, like the ones listed above.
When, where, and how doesn't matter as long as we keep our core guys and we maintain our level of play.

But breaking even at the cap next year with the rollover before draft selections means someone is probably gonna go after this season.

ya great teams do that... we are a good team for ONE SEASON, with a large part of that being those guys mentioned

suddenly we are the patriots who can just draft and replace pro bowlers.   I think it is the people proposing this that need to simmer down

The jags should not be cutting any player that is still producing at an elite level

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Simmer down...
Good teams have to get rid of good talent all the time.
Also.. better to get rid of em a year early than a year late.

Regardless... the point of the matter is there is no need to worry about signing Jalen and those guys, this team is gonna get it done.
They'll get it done by cutting aging free agents, like the ones listed above.
When, where, and how doesn't matter as long as we keep our core guys and we maintain our level of play.

But breaking even at the cap next year with the rollover before draft selections means someone is probably gonna go after this season.

ya great teams do that... we are a good team for ONE SEASON, with a large part of that being those guys mentioned

suddenly we are the patriots who can just draft and replace pro bowlers.   I think it is the people proposing this that need to simmer down

The jags should not be cutting any player that is still producing at an elite level

Right...
we're talking about after this year.

And as I mentioned above... when you had a good season, and a solid offseason, and you have no drama.......... there isn't much else to talk about.
There is no reason for people to A) Freak about contracts due up in 2-3 years OR 2) Freak out about the conversation about which guys will have to be cut after this year and next.

I agree, if Campbell hits 17 sacks... we're not gonna cut him. 
But what if he gets like 8, misses 2 games to injury, and has half as many pressures as last season...... You gonna hold on to him at 15 mil or whatever in HOPES that he gets back to double digit sacks in his mid 30s? (They made the contract so we can get out from it after this year with only 3 mil in dead money for a reason.)
Naaaaah.... Especially not if Taven comes in an plays well.

It's all just what ifs and what abouts.... 
And it was a pre-pre season conversation.

I imagine we can all safely move to "Final 53 thread 82" 
And "complain about 6th round QB pick thread 54"
now that football is back.

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ya I agree, there are just a lot of people throwing out the "dont worry we can just cut malik and calais" without much thought

I would keep calais for his 3rd year as long as he doesnt throw a dud this year, and I highly doubt he goes from last year dominating to this year laying an egg, some regression? sure, but nothing crazy. I agree that 4th year is the year I start thinking about it

Also, zero reason to cut Malik before his contract expires, dude is still in his 20s

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Then you have Dareus. I love his ability to stop the run, but he's been a little unstable off the field. Is he someone the Jags would look at cutting?

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before malik and calais probably.. but again, if he has a great year this year, we arent really up against things until 2020, I would keep him, assuming nothing comes from this sexual assault allegation stuff of course

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Then you have Dareus. I love his ability to stop the run, but he's been a little unstable off the field. Is he someone the Jags would look at cutting?

He's the low-hanging fruit.  10mil in instant cap savings with no dead money hit next year.  But what if he returns to all-pro form?  10mil becomes a bargain for a top D-tackle.

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Then you have Dareus. I love his ability to stop the run, but he's been a little unstable off the field. Is he someone the Jags would look at cutting?

He's the low-hanging fruit.  10mil in instant cap savings with no dead money hit next year.  But what if he returns to all-pro form?  10mil becomes a bargain for a top D-tackle.

The defense actually had a problem against the run last year, before he signed on. If we cut him, we've got to draft someone as good as he was. Maybe we already have, with Bryan. I don't know.

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He's the low-hanging fruit.  10mil in instant cap savings with no dead money hit next year.  But what if he returns to all-pro form?  10mil becomes a bargain for a top D-tackle.

The defense actually had a problem against the run last year, before he signed on. If we cut him, we've got to draft someone as good as he was. Maybe we already have, with Bryan. I don't know.

1. Bryan plays a different position on the DL. He can't replace Dareus. He could replace either Jackson or Campbell.
2. The run defense went south when Malik Jackson was injured. It wouldn't be as good without Dareus, but not 32nd like it was early last season.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"