The over all Sanctimonious attitude that supporters of anti American millionaires have is inspiring. To be sure this will backfire on the NFL. They will lose money, it may not happen overnight, but the product is damaged. People love this country more than football. I grew up being an NFL fan. Not a college fan; an NFL fan. The first thing I bought my Son is a football. I am utterly tired of being lectured to by these turds. Football is an escape from everyday crap; a chance to unwind and enjoy some sport. These stupid players have stolen that from me and I am pissed.

I believe you are not the only one who feels this way. The NFL will get slaughtered over this issue. There are people on both sides trying to start boycotts. Sponsors are stumbling over themselves trying to put out 'middle of the road statements' that somehow offend both sides. No one wants their business to be associated with this mess. Its a lose lose lose, and I think the NFL is about to realize why it should have shut this down over a year ago. Funny how trying to be PC will end up costing so much. Life lesson in there.

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Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 

Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.

 

The over all Sanctimonious attitude that supporters of anti American millionaires have is inspiring. To be sure this will backfire on the NFL. They will lose money, it may not happen overnight, but the product is damaged. People love this country more than football. I grew up being an NFL fan. Not a college fan; an NFL fan. The first thing I bought my Son is a football. I am utterly tired of being lectured to by these turds. Football is an escape from everyday crap; a chance to unwind and enjoy some sport. These stupid players have stolen that from me and I am pissed.

What makes them Anti American?

They haven't renounced their citizenship like the Confederates. 

They haven't taken up arms against the country like the Confederates.

They haven't killed thousands of Americans like the Confederates.

And, unless you believe equality in law enforcement is inconsistent with American ideals, they haven't advocated for anything Anti American like the Confederates.

Yet self righteous conservatives like yourself revere the Confederates while having the gall to wrap yourselves in the American flag to castigate the players.

  If the players succeed in their protests, the "worst" that happens is that more criminal suspects of color will actually make it to trial instead of being shot by police and those acting like police under dubious rationales.  If the Confederates succeeded, the American flag would have at least thirteen fewer stars and the country would be a fraction of its current size and strength, and the anti American ideals they blatantly admitted to would have prevailed.  Yet conservatives, from Trump on down, jump on the proverbial grenades to protect icons of the Confederacy from removal or criticism.

It has NOTHING to do with Anti-American thoughts or deeds on the part of the players.


It has everything to do with more pernicious motives of the conservatives that bash the players.

The debate about confederate symbols is about opposition to editing history, not reverence for the confederacy or sedition.  Moreover a large number of confederate monuments were erected in celebration of the actions taken by the confederates in the post war era to foster unity among parts of the country that had literally been at war with each other.  

And equality of law enforcement is an American ideal.  Within the arena of ideas if one is going to propose that there is widespread systemic racism then there should be some factual statistical basis for that argument.  Instead, in this discussion not only is evidence not presented, it's not even asked for.  The reality of the situation shows that both black and white people are shot in direct proportion to their interactions with police.  Their interactions with police are in direct proportion to the amount of crimes reported.  The major premise that in some way America has an unspoken institutional conspiracy to deprive people of color of basic due process doesn't pass any level of real scrutiny.  Instead we cherry pick one or two cases, write a bumper sticker and kneel to the ground.  

Most importantly the idea of players who control roughly 4 billion dollars of annual revenue having to PROTEST for anything is laughable at best.  This isn't the Jim Crow south where blacks were denied the right to vote and had a DP suppressed by legitimate external impediments to upward mobility.  These players should be the economic and political epicenters of their community.  If they want to advance a certain candidate for Mayor, police chief, DA, public defender or any of the like then they are more than capable of doing so.  In fact if they themselves decided to pursue a career in politics then they have the name ID to make that happen.  Either way, there is no reason that we should be looking at a symbolic proxy from a bunch of college educated millionares that are free to pursue any real course of action that they see fit.

But real action would require real solutions.  Real solutions would require a real examination of the facts that don't support the narrative advanced by the MSM or pop culture.  In Ferguson you had black witnesses coming before a Grand Jury testifying that the whole HANDS UP DON'T SHOOT narrative was a lie.  You had the initial witnesses recant their testimony.  You had concurrent forensic examination lead by the DOJ (Headed by Eric Holder, appointed by Barrack Obama) that confirmed this.  But when the DA who the people of Ferguson THEMSELVES ELECTED presented the FACTS OF THE CASE where were Tavon Austin and the other Rams players who protested Michael Brown's shooting to stop the looters from destroying part of a city?  In Baltimore again, you had a Black President, a black Attorney General, a Black Mayor, a Black (fine as all get out) District attorney and three black officers perpetrating institutional racism?  In the city of Milwaukee you had a BLACK OFFICER have to shoot a suspect that he knew from school.  INSTITUTIONAL RACISM!  In Dallas you had a madman open fire and kill 5 police officers in a department that was lead by a black Sheriff.  These are all instances where not only was a baseless accusation made, but national coverage went along with massive violence and even death!

When you get outside the echo chamber you realize how silly this is.  Just because some drug dealer doesn't want to go to Jail and decides to try and duke it out with 5-0 doesn't mean that the country as a whole is actively trying to disenfranchise people of color.

---

The over all Sanctimonious attitude that supporters of anti American millionaires have is inspiring. To be sure this will backfire on the NFL. They will lose money, it may not happen overnight, but the product is damaged. People love this country more than football. I grew up being an NFL fan. Not a college fan; an NFL fan. The first thing I bought my Son is a football. I am utterly tired of being lectured to by these turds. Football is an escape from everyday crap; a chance to unwind and enjoy some sport. These stupid players have stolen that from me and I am pissed.

What makes them Anti American?

They haven't renounced their citizenship like the Confederates. 

They haven't taken up arms against the country like the Confederates.

They haven't killed thousands of Americans like the Confederates.

And, unless you believe equality in law enforcement is inconsistent with American ideals, they haven't advocated for anything Anti American like the Confederates.

Yet self righteous conservatives like yourself revere the Confederates while having the gall to wrap yourselves in the American flag to castigate the players.

  If the players succeed in their protests, the "worst" that happens is that more criminal suspects of color will actually make it to trial instead of being shot by police and those acting like police under dubious rationales.  If the Confederates succeeded, the American flag would have at least thirteen fewer stars and the country would be a fraction of its current size and strength, and the anti American ideals they blatantly admitted to would have prevailed.  Yet conservatives, from Trump on down, jump on the proverbial grenades to protect icons of the Confederacy from removal or criticism.

It has NOTHING to do with Anti-American thoughts or deeds on the part of the players.


It has everything to do with more pernicious motives of the conservatives that bash the players.

This is a fundamental misconstruction of the civil war. The confederates were statesman first and Americans second. They believed the contract they entered with the United States allowed them to govern themselves with limited interference from the federal government. When the government overstepped their boundaries (in the eyes of the confederates), the south chose to withdraw from that contract. The north said otherwise. The civil war settled the dispute over which power was sovereign: states or the federal government. Functionally, the government contract was changed after the civil war. Citizens at the time would have a completely different perspective then than we have now. Calling them traitors is disingenuous.

If conservatives embrace aspects of confederacy, it's because they still value limited government and incorporate that symbolism. In this regard, your analogy is appropriate: that choosing your symbols is important. A symbol that is divisive can actually detract from your point and cause serious backlash. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

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[quote pid='1034351' dateline='1506392699']
You need to look at who is lecturing you, and overall who is lecturing who.

The players LOVE THEIR COUNTRY MORE THAN THEY LOVE FOOTBALL, and have THE GUTS to put it all on the line.

Lecturing, please.  It is a silent gesture. 

Bear in mind the idiot in chief advocated today they protest the police ON THE FIELD.

Stand up for that?

My first son will be born in a few days.  Can't wait to gear him up in Jag gear, and proud that our owner was at the forefront in a stand against a tyrant.
[/quote]

Stop trying to make them into heroes--they aren't.

They're kneeling in a game where they're probably getting 100k+ paychecks  for running every now-and-then, and they're upset because they think they're treated unfairly because they believe the lies told to them. That doesn't make them brave. It makes them foolish.

Congrats on the baby.

---

The over all Sanctimonious attitude that supporters of anti American millionaires have is inspiring. To be sure this will backfire on the NFL. They will lose money, it may not happen overnight, but the product is damaged. People love this country more than football. I grew up being an NFL fan. Not a college fan; an NFL fan. The first thing I bought my Son is a football. I am utterly tired of being lectured to by these turds. Football is an escape from everyday crap; a chance to unwind and enjoy some sport. These stupid players have stolen that from me and I am pissed.

10/10 chance you dont even sing the national anthem on your way to work, why do you hate this country so much, is bin Laden your hero?

---

My girlfriend is Filipino and came to the U.S. from the Philippines 16 years ago.  She is amazed at the protests because she her biggest desire growing up as a child was to come to America, the land of opportunity, the greatest country in the world.   She would never show such disrespect to the American flag and national anthem, as she holds them sacred and is so grateful for the things she has compared to what she would have in the Philippines. 

For the people complaining about America, go live overseas for a while and it makes you appreciate American that much more.  When you see the crime, the poverty, the hopelessness - and compare that to the wealth and opportunity in America,  you would never protest again.

---

The over all Sanctimonious attitude that supporters of anti American millionaires have is inspiring. To be sure this will backfire on the NFL. They will lose money, it may not happen overnight, but the product is damaged. People love this country more than football. I grew up being an NFL fan. Not a college fan; an NFL fan. The first thing I bought my Son is a football. I am utterly tired of being lectured to by these turds. Football is an escape from everyday crap; a chance to unwind and enjoy some sport. These stupid players have stolen that from me and I am pissed.

You're mad, so you're going to punish yourself by giving up NFL football.  Does that make any sense?

The players have stolen your happiness by kneeling for the anthem. Is it that easy to steal your happiness?

It's your choice to internalize all this stuff and get angry about it. Your choice.

Personally, I'm going to keep going to as many games as I can, because I'm not going to let some little pre game protest drive me away.

---

My girlfriend is Filipino and came to the U.S. from the Philippines 16 years ago.  She is amazed at the protests because she her biggest desire growing up as a child was to come to America, the land of opportunity, the greatest country in the world.   She would never show such disrespect to the American flag and national anthem, as she holds them sacred and is so grateful for the things she has compared to what she would have in the Philippines. 

For the people complaining about America, go live overseas for a while and it makes you appreciate American that much more.  When you see the crime, the poverty, the hopelessness - and compare that to the wealth and opportunity in America,  you would never protest again.

Do you include all protest in that grand statement of yours?   This country was born in protest.  How about the Boston Tea Party?  Ever heard of that?  People have been protesting since before this country was born.  The entire history of this country is a history of protest.

Never protest again? That's a dumb statement.

---

My girlfriend is Filipino and came to the U.S. from the Philippines 16 years ago.  She is amazed at the protests because she her biggest desire growing up as a child was to come to America, the land of opportunity, the greatest country in the world.   She would never show such disrespect to the American flag and national anthem, as she holds them sacred and is so grateful for the things she has compared to what she would have in the Philippines. 

For the people complaining about America, go live overseas for a while and it makes you appreciate American that much more.  When you see the crime, the poverty, the hopelessness - and compare that to the wealth and opportunity in America,  you would never protest again.

Do you include all protest in that grand statement of yours?   This country was born in protest.  How about the Boston Tea Party?  Ever heard of that?  People have been protesting since before this country was born.  The entire history of this country is a history of protest.

Never protest again?  That's a dumb statement.

No dude. Only protest when it's convenient.

---

What's that I hear? Is it a dog whistle? Why yes it is.

Strange (perhaps not) how so many seem to want to want to put the Bill of Rights up for sale - i.e., equating $ with the right to protest.

Go along with the majority or pay the price.

---

The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

MalabarJag
   So your defense of the anti-American actions of some of the players (they stood for "God Save the Queen") is that their anti-Americanism wasn't as bad as the slave masters of the Confederacy?
   Talk about damning with faint praise.

No, my defense of the players is that nothing they have done to this point is even remotely anti American.

The First Amendment of the Constution reads thusly: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." (emphasis added).  The Founding Fathers felt the freedom of speech was important enough to make it the first right to codify in the Bill of Rights.  Citizens have the right to peaceably assemble and to air grievances.  Nothing the players have done in kneeling silently before a football game during the national anthem, or raising their fists during the same time exceeds the rights delineated above.  There has been no violence associated with those players pre game body positions.  The players have not destroyed any property in their silent protests.  The players have not burned any flags when conducting these protests.  It is doubtful any of the players who kneel or raise a fist prior to a football game have violated any tangentially related time, place or manner restrictions passed as local ordinances. If so, there have been no arrests based upon that.  Their actions have been wholly consistent with the constitution.  


My contrasting their actions with those of the Confederates is to highlight the staggering degree of hypocrisy on this subject from the right.  People who literally declared war on and conducted war against this country are revered as heroes by the right.  Meanwhile, those who silently protest in the effort to help form a more perfect union are reviled as traitors by the same right.

Again, it isn't about patriotism.

What the right has functionally expressed is that people of color have no right to voice dissent the right is bound to honor or respect.

What else explains the disparate treatment diametrically opposed to the degree and severity of dissent raised by the groups in question?

1. So you admit that the 100,000 word screed you wrote about the Confederacy was an off-topic strawman argument. I don't recall anyone here calling any Confederates heroes.

2. As far as anti-American, how can a person who shows more respect for the British anthem than the US anthem be considered anything other than anti-American? I wonder what other countries' anthems the protesting players would prefer? We'll see if any player sits for the Mexican anthem in a few weeks. Maybe Kaepernick would stand for the Cuban anthem.

3. You talk about freedom of speech. Doesn't Trump have that same right to freedom of speech? He was expressing his opinion, not giving an executive order. We may not agree with his opinion, but as an American he has the right to express it. He does not have the right to use government power to enforce his preferred outcome, and he has not done that.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

MalabarJag
   So your defense of the anti-American actions of some of the players (they stood for "God Save the Queen") is that their anti-Americanism wasn't as bad as the slave masters of the Confederacy?
   Talk about damning with faint praise.

No, my defense of the players is that nothing they have done to this point is even remotely anti American.

The First Amendment of the Constution reads thusly: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." (emphasis added).  The Founding Fathers felt the freedom of speech was important enough to make it the first right to codify in the Bill of Rights.  Citizens have the right to peaceably assemble and to air grievances.  Nothing the players have done in kneeling silently before a football game during the national anthem, or raising their fists during the same time exceeds the rights delineated above.  There has been no violence associated with those players pre game body positions.  The players have not destroyed any property in their silent protests.  The players have not burned any flags when conducting these protests.  It is doubtful any of the players who kneel or raise a fist prior to a football game have violated any tangentially related time, place or manner restrictions passed as local ordinances. If so, there have been no arrests based upon that.  Their actions have been wholly consistent with the constitution.  


My contrasting their actions with those of the Confederates is to highlight the staggering degree of hypocrisy on this subject from the right.  People who literally declared war on and conducted war against this country are revered as heroes by the right.  Meanwhile, those who silently protest in the effort to help form a more perfect union are reviled as traitors by the same right.

Again, it isn't about patriotism.

What the right has functionally expressed is that people of color have no right to voice dissent the right is bound to honor or respect.

What else explains the disparate treatment diametrically opposed to the degree and severity of dissent raised by the groups in question?

1. So you admit that the 100,000 word screed you wrote about the Confederacy was an off-topic strawman argument. I don't recall anyone here calling any Confederates heroes.

2. As far as anti-American, how can a person who shows more respect for the British anthem than the US anthem be considered anything other than anti-American? I wonder what other countries' anthems the protesting players would prefer? We'll see if any player sits for the Mexican anthem in a few weeks. Maybe Kaepernick would stand for the Cuban anthem.

3. You talk about freedom of speech. Doesn't Trump have that same right to freedom of speech? He was expressing his opinion, not giving an executive order. We may not agree with his opinion, but as an American he has the right to express it. He does not have the right to use government power to enforce his preferred outcome, and he has not done that.

On point. That hurt the most when these players took a knee for the National Anthem and then stood for God save the queen. That was a slap in the face to America. Let them move to England.

---

Boy, I can tell you all one thing. Trump mentions something and people start talking. Take this very board where there has been a thread ( Kap )to discuss this topic since early August. It is six pages and around a 100 replies. Trump opens his yap and you have this thread going on 15 pages. Why do you all think that is?

---

Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.

 

 

Boy, I can tell you all one thing. Trump mentions something and people start talking. Take this very board where there has been a thread ( Kap )to discuss this topic since early August. It is six pages and around a 100 replies. Trump opens his yap and you have this thread going on 15 pages. Why do you all think that is?

It just seems that many Trump supporters are very easily played. Trump blows the whistle and the lap dogs come running.

Birther! Birther! Birther! pant ... pant ... pant

Ban all Muslims! pant ... pant ... pant

Build the wall! pant ... pant ... pant

Repeal and replace! pant ... pant ... pant

Rocket man! pant ... pant ... pant


Last week in the Oval Office: "Jared! I need something to get my people thinking about something other than the fact I've been a total failure so far at this President thing. What can I do?"

"Well, sir, you've been cursing a lot at that black football player." 

"Yeah! What's his name? Copernicus?"

"I think it Colin Kapernick, sir."

"Yeah! I'll call him an [BLEEP]! That will get them fired up!. Now, when can I use it?"

"You are going to be in Alabama on Friday, sir."

"Alabama! Why that's practically a sign from God. I'll do it. Great idea."

"Good, sir. Now I'll get back to my private e-mail account."

As Jared leaves he hears Donald muttering "crooked Hillary, crooked Hillary."

---

The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

My girlfriend is Filipino and came to the U.S. from the Philippines 16 years ago.  She is amazed at the protests because she her biggest desire growing up as a child was to come to America, the land of opportunity, the greatest country in the world.   She would never show such disrespect to the American flag and national anthem, as she holds them sacred and is so grateful for the things she has compared to what she would have in the Philippines. 

For the people complaining about America, go live overseas for a while and it makes you appreciate American that much more.  When you see the crime, the poverty, the hopelessness - and compare that to the wealth and opportunity in America,  you would never protest again.

These sort of statements make little sense. You are essentially saying that you cannot love something and also wish for it's improvement. I assume you and your wife never argue or have disagreements but in the average relationship these things occur. Imagine if one spouse takes the stance that because you criticize me that means you can't love me and you should go back to your old boyfriend? It is such an immature stance. Just because our president says that he wants to "Make America Great Again" doesn't mean he dislikes America, it means that in his opinion he sees areas for improvement.

---

Boy, I can tell you all one thing. Trump mentions something and people start talking. Take this very board where there has been a thread ( Kap )to discuss this topic since early August. It is six pages and around a 100 replies. Trump opens his yap and you have this thread going on 15 pages. Why do you all think that is?

It just seems that many Trump supporters are very easily played. Trump blows the whistle and the lap dogs come running.

Birther! Birther! Birther! pant ... pant ... pant

Ban all Muslims! pant ... pant ... pant

Build the wall! pant ... pant ... pant

Repeal and replace! pant ... pant ... pant

Rocket man! pant ... pant ... pant


Last week in the Oval Office: "Jared! I need something to get my people thinking about something other than the fact I've been a total failure so far at this President thing. What can I do?"

"Well, sir, you've been cursing a lot at that black football player." 

"Yeah! What's his name? Copernicus?"

"I think it Colin Kapernick, sir."

"Yeah! I'll call him an [BLEEP]! That will get them fired up!. Now, when can I use it?"

"You are going to be in Alabama on Friday, sir."

"Alabama! Why that's practically a sign from God. I'll do it. Great idea."

"Good, sir. Now I'll get back to my private e-mail account."

As Jared leaves he hears Donald muttering "crooked Hillary, crooked Hillary."

---

What makes them Anti American?

They haven't renounced their citizenship like the Confederates. 

They haven't taken up arms against the country like the Confederates.

They haven't killed thousands of Americans like the Confederates.

And, unless you believe equality in law enforcement is inconsistent with American ideals, they haven't advocated for anything Anti American like the Confederates.

Yet self righteous conservatives like yourself revere the Confederates while having the gall to wrap yourselves in the American flag to castigate the players.

  If the players succeed in their protests, the "worst" that happens is that more criminal suspects of color will actually make it to trial instead of being shot by police and those acting like police under dubious rationales.  If the Confederates succeeded, the American flag would have at least thirteen fewer stars and the country would be a fraction of its current size and strength, and the anti American ideals they blatantly admitted to would have prevailed.  Yet conservatives, from Trump on down, jump on the proverbial grenades to protect icons of the Confederacy from removal or criticism.

It has NOTHING to do with Anti-American thoughts or deeds on the part of the players.


It has everything to do with more pernicious motives of the conservatives that bash the players.

The debate about confederate symbols is about opposition to editing history, not reverence for the confederacy or sedition. 

The monuments themselves were about editing history.

Moreover a large number of confederate monuments were erected in celebration of the actions taken by the confederates in the post war era to foster unity among parts of the country that had literally been at war with each other.  

"Foster unity"? Are you freaking kidding me? As was stated eloquently stated in a related thread, they were a middle finger to the North, and I would add to the recently liberated African-Americans, that coincided with the transition from Reconstruction to Jim Crow. They were part of a Kool-Aid recipe begun soon after the Civil War which evolved into a concoction from which you apparently over-imbibe.

And equality of law enforcement is an American ideal.  Within the arena of ideas if one is going to propose that there is widespread systemic racism then there should be some factual statistical basis for that argument.  Instead, in this discussion not only is evidence not presented, it's not even asked for.  The reality of the situation shows that both black and white people are shot in direct proportion to their interactions with police.  Their interactions with police are in direct proportion to the amount of crimes reported.  The major premise that in some way America has an unspoken institutional conspiracy to deprive people of color of basic due process doesn't pass any level of real scrutiny.  Instead we cherry pick one or two cases, write a bumper sticker and kneel to the ground.  

Most importantly the idea of players who control roughly 4 billion dollars of annual revenue having to PROTEST for anything is laughable at best.  This isn't the Jim Crow south where blacks were denied the right to vote and had a DP suppressed by legitimate external impediments to upward mobility.  These players should be the economic and political epicenters of their community.  If they want to advance a certain candidate for Mayor, police chief, DA, public defender or any of the like then they are more than capable of doing so.  In fact if they themselves decided to pursue a career in politics then they have the name ID to make that happen.  Either way, there is no reason that we should be looking at a symbolic proxy from a bunch of college educated millionares that are free to pursue any real course of action that they see fit.

Which is exactly what the owners, coaches and players did Sunday, and what Kaepernick has done since last season. They do not claim to be victims, they are kneeling or locking arms in support of those without a platform from which to speak. To say they have no right to protest because they are affluent is hypocritical and downright un-American.

But real action would require real solutions.  Real solutions would require a real examination of the facts that don't support the narrative advanced by the MSM or pop culture.  In Ferguson you had black witnesses coming before a Grand Jury testifying that the whole HANDS UP DON'T SHOOT narrative was a lie.  You had the initial witnesses recant their testimony.  You had concurrent forensic examination lead by the DOJ (Headed by Eric Holder, appointed by Barrack Obama) that confirmed this.  But when the DA who the people of Ferguson THEMSELVES ELECTED presented the FACTS OF THE CASE where were Tavon Austin and the other Rams players who protested Michael Brown's shooting to stop the looters from destroying part of a city?  In Baltimore again, you had a Black President, a black Attorney General, a Black Mayor, a Black (fine as all get out) District attorney and three black officers perpetrating institutional racism?  In the city of Milwaukee you had a BLACK OFFICER have to shoot a suspect that he knew from school.  INSTITUTIONAL RACISM!  In Dallas you had a madman open fire and kill 5 police officers in a department that was lead by a black Sheriff.  These are all instances where not only was a baseless accusation made, but national coverage went along with massive violence and even death!

You do realize institutional racism means the victims of racism are victims due to the color of their skin, regardless of the color of the skin of those victimizing them, don't you?

When you get outside the echo chamber you realize how silly this is.  Just because some drug dealer doesn't want to go to Jail and decides to try and duke it out with 5-0 doesn't mean that the country as a whole is actively trying to disenfranchise people of color.

Some seem to forget none of this was going to be a big deal as far as week three of the NFL schedule was concerned until the President of the United States, the supposed leader of the free world, saw fit to say anyone who peacefully exercises their right to free speech without breaking a rule or a law is a son of a [BLEEP] who should lose their job.

Given everything going on in the world, this is what your Orange Emperor wants us to talk about, and it's not because he gives a damn if anyone kneels, farts, stands or self-indulges during the national anthem. It's because he doesn't want you talking about anything else.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

What's that I hear? Is it a dog whistle? Why yes it is.

Strange (perhaps not) how so many seem to want to want to put the Bill of Rights up for sale - i.e., equating $ with the right to protest.

Go along with the majority or pay the price.

Strange how you seem to want to equate the private sector with the very clear word "Congress" in the Bill of Rights. The whole Constitution is written to limit government, not the People. But let a baker refuse to bake a cake that she doesn't want to and see just how fast your story changes.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

What makes them Anti American?

They haven't renounced their citizenship like the Confederates. 

They haven't taken up arms against the country like the Confederates.

They haven't killed thousands of Americans like the Confederates.

And, unless you believe equality in law enforcement is inconsistent with American ideals, they haven't advocated for anything Anti American like the Confederates.

Yet self righteous conservatives like yourself revere the Confederates while having the gall to wrap yourselves in the American flag to castigate the players.

  If the players succeed in their protests, the "worst" that happens is that more criminal suspects of color will actually make it to trial instead of being shot by police and those acting like police under dubious rationales.  If the Confederates succeeded, the American flag would have at least thirteen fewer stars and the country would be a fraction of its current size and strength, and the anti American ideals they blatantly admitted to would have prevailed.  Yet conservatives, from Trump on down, jump on the proverbial grenades to protect icons of the Confederacy from removal or criticism.

It has NOTHING to do with Anti-American thoughts or deeds on the part of the players.


It has everything to do with more pernicious motives of the conservatives that bash the players.

1.  The debate about confederate symbols is about opposition to editing history, not reverence for the confederacy or sedition.  Moreover a large number of confederate monuments were erected in celebration of the actions taken by the confederates in the post war era to foster unity among parts of the country that had literally been at war with each other.  

2.  And equality of law enforcement is an American ideal.  Within the arena of ideas if one is going to propose that there is widespread systemic racism then there should be some factual statistical basis for that argument.  Instead, in this discussion not only is evidence not presented, it's not even asked for.  The reality of the situation shows that both black and white people are shot in direct proportion to their interactions with police.  Their interactions with police are in direct proportion to the amount of crimes reported.  The major premise that in some way America has an unspoken institutional conspiracy to deprive people of color of basic due process doesn't pass any level of real scrutiny.  Instead we cherry pick one or two cases, write a bumper sticker and kneel to the ground.  

3.  Most importantly the idea of players who control roughly 4 billion dollars of annual revenue having to PROTEST for anything is laughable at best.  This isn't the Jim Crow south where blacks were denied the right to vote and had a DP suppressed by legitimate external impediments to upward mobility.  These players should be the economic and political epicenters of their community.  If they want to advance a certain candidate for Mayor, police chief, DA, public defender or any of the like then they are more than capable of doing so.  In fact if they themselves decided to pursue a career in politics then they have the name ID to make that happen.  Either way, there is no reason that we should be looking at a symbolic proxy from a bunch of college educated millionares that are free to pursue any real course of action that they see fit.

4.  But real action would require real solutions.  Real solutions would require a real examination of the facts that don't support the narrative advanced by the MSM or pop culture.  In Ferguson you had black witnesses coming before a Grand Jury testifying that the whole HANDS UP DON'T SHOOT narrative was a lie.  You had the initial witnesses recant their testimony.  You had concurrent forensic examination lead by the DOJ (Headed by Eric Holder, appointed by Barrack Obama) that confirmed this.  But when the DA who the people of Ferguson THEMSELVES ELECTED presented the FACTS OF THE CASE where were Tavon Austin and the other Rams players who protested Michael Brown's shooting to stop the looters from destroying part of a city?  In Baltimore again, you had a Black President, a black Attorney General, a Black Mayor, a Black (fine as all get out) District attorney and three black officers perpetrating institutional racism?  In the city of Milwaukee you had a BLACK OFFICER have to shoot a suspect that he knew from school.  INSTITUTIONAL RACISM!  In Dallas you had a madman open fire and kill 5 police officers in a department that was lead by a black Sheriff.  These are all instances where not only was a baseless accusation made, but national coverage went along with massive violence and even death!

5.  When you get outside the echo chamber you realize how silly this is.  Just because some drug dealer doesn't want to go to Jail and decides to try and duke it out with 5-0 doesn't mean that the country as a whole is actively trying to disenfranchise people of color.

(Numbering and emphasis added.  Answers given will correspond accordingly with the numbered paragraphs.)

1.  With all due respect, that is male bovine excrement.  I have been involved with a fight over a vestige of the Confederacy in an actual controversy (the renaming of the school formerly named after that bigoted [BLEEP]-stain known as Nathan Bedford Forrest-confederate general and founder of the Ku Klux Klan).  Most of the debates we had over the issue involved Confederate apologists desperately trying to rehab the reputation of that man.  They painted romanticized notions of this "great leader of men" who was known to have "held enlightened racial views for his time," who founded the KKK as a benevolent organization, only to leave in disillusionment when people from outside took the Klan in a direction he didn't want.  Even cursory thought shows that narrative doesn't pass the straight face test.  If he were well known for "enlightened racial views," why would the organization he founded attract virulent racists?  If he were this "great leader of men" why couldn't he control the direction of the very group he founded?  As for the Confederate statues being a "peace offering" of sorts to foster unity?  There is the brink of insanity and then there is the abyss.  Confederate statues being a unifying factor for people at war, to say nothing of the vast numbers of African Americans oppressed by Confederate policy, is a concept dredged up from deep within the abyss.

2.  A protest, especially one where players either silently kneel during the national anthem is not an avenue to present evidence.  That said, even direct video evidence showing disparate treatment/impact is minimized/ignored by those of you on the right.  When the video from South Carolina showed the man fleeing and not threatening the officer, the officer shooting him, then going back to plant the weapon on him, there were many on the right still saying the officer was justified.  We hear the familiar refrain from those on the right that compliance is the key to surviving police encounters.  Yet we see video evidence showing 12 year old Tamir Rice had no chance to comply in the roughly two seconds it took for the police car to arrive, the officer exiting the car and shooting the boy.  Once again, the right piled on the 12 year old boy, who was armed with a BB gun in an open carry state.  We see video evidence showing the man in Minnesota (Castille ?), who was legally permitted to carry a weapon, who informed the officer he had the weapon on him, went for his wallet as the officer instructed him, and he still got shot.  Yet you have those of you on the right yammering about how he should have complied.  We see video evidence of the Miami man with the autistic patient next to him, lying on the ground with hands up, complying with the police mandate.  The officer shot him, and later said he didn't know why he shot, and that he was actually aiming for the autistic man.  Nary a shrug from the conservatives about the constitution.  We also have video evidence of an overwhelmingly white Bundy militia with guns drawn and aimed at federal law enforcement (the epitome of a non compliant imminent threat), the cops did not shoot, and the right hailed them as heroes.  We also have evidence of Dylan Roof being taken alive after killing nine blacks.  He was treated to Burger King by the cops.  The overwhelming evidence suggests police have carte blanche to do whatever to blacks and it is applauded by conservatives when they take it beyond the force necessary.

3.  So again, because they are wealthy, they somehow forfeit their rights to protest?  That flies in the face of every dynamic in this country where the wealthy have the right to influence policy. There is no "millionaire's exception" to the first amendment. Their status as millionaires doesn't make them immune from the things they are protesting about (see:  Bennett, Michael).  Yes, they do have the financial means and name recognition to run for public office if they so choose.  But why restrict/mandate how they use their fame and fortune?  None of you righties told Glen Beck he couldn't have his march on Washington because he was wealthy.  Why restrict this particular group of wealthy people?

4.  Sadly, blacks are capable of perpetuating anti-black racism just as whites.  That's the very nature of institutional racism.

5.  No, a black drug dealer that scraps with the police and loses does not equate, standing alone, to an entire system aligned against blacks.  However, this scenario does not happen in a vacuum.  We have documented history of police malfeasance against African Americans long before the recent controversies, including the Jim Crow period you cited above.  But here's the thing.  Conservatives yammer on about how ours is the best system in the world (and, for the record, I agree).  So why not let the system work?  Why so fast to applaud police action that precludes the best system in the world from processing black defendants instead of depriving them of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness on the spot?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

"There is no "millionaire's exception" to the first amendment. Their status as millionaires doesn't make them immune from the things they are protesting about (see:  Bennett, Michael)."

Of all the stuff you said you're really gonna make a case for that liar?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato