Well I don't think you need to do that.

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That's your right and it's my right to ignore you and do what I want. It's great living in a free country. 

Difference being that I'm not trying to legislate away your right to ignore me, which is what happens every time a sentence starts with, "There ought'a be a law..."

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

That's your right and it's my right to ignore you and do what I want. It's great living in a free country. 

Difference being that I'm not trying to legislate away your right to ignore me, which is what happens every time a sentence starts with, "There ought'a be a law..."

I've never written "There ought'a be a law....." on this board.

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Anyone watch the brothers interview? I mean I expected the guy to be pretty off but Jesus was he crazy. Talked about all kinds of stuff.

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Anyone watch the brothers interview? I mean I expected the guy to be pretty off but Jesus was he crazy. Talked about all kinds of stuff.

If you're talking about his initial interview I think we need to give him a pass on that one.  He just found out his wealthy brother committed the worst mass shooting in US history.  His 90 year old mom is in the house, his now dead brother will go down as one of the most evil persons in the US, and he's gotta carry that with him (via his last name) for the rest of his life.

I think he was a bit in shock and most likely will be for quite a long time.

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And Suppressors for the adults.

Nobody needs suppressors unless they're performing a "hit." There are other options for hearing protection.

This is funny stuff.  You've clearly never actually been around guns, particularly those using suppressors.  You're buying into the Hollywood narrative of what they sound like.  A suppressor doesn't eliminate the sound.  I read an article today that did a good job of describing what it sounds like with a suppressed AK47 or AR15.  It reduces the sound from a gunfire explosion to the sound of a jackhammer.  

I'm not even sure why we're debating suppressors to begin with considering they had absolutely nothing to do with this potential false flag in Vegas.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

For all of those calling for more gun control, this article reasonably addresses the subject after some extensive research, and it's not some conservative writer or website.  It's written by someone who supports more gun control.

The more information we see about this incident, the more it seems like we're simply not being told the entire story about what has been found so far in the hotel room, with the girlfriend, and with the affiliations of the shooter/girlfriend.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I have never subscribed to the notion of a false flag, but there's just a lot of information coming out right now that leaves a lot of questions and not a lot of answers.  I had initially dismissed the notion that there could be a conspiracy here that was bigger than a lone gunman who went on a deluded rampage.  I'm not so sure of this now as we learn a little more about Paddock, and gain more insight into his background. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Anyone watch the brothers interview? I mean I expected the guy to be pretty off but Jesus was he crazy. Talked about all kinds of stuff.

If you're talking about his initial interview I think we need to give him a pass on that one.  He just found out his wealthy brother committed the worst mass shooting in US history.  His 90 year old mom is in the house, his now dead brother will go down as one of the most evil persons in the US, and he's gotta carry that with him (via his last name) for the rest of his life.

I think he was a bit in shock and most likely will be for quite a long time.

Yeah as I said I expected him to be off , anyone would be in that situation , just wasn't expecting him to be like that.  

The father is an interesting figure.

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For all of those calling for more gun control, this article reasonably addresses the subject after some extensive research, and it's not some conservative writer or website.  It's written by someone who supports more gun control.

The more information we see about this incident, the more it seems like we're simply not being told the entire story about what has been found so far in the hotel room, with the girlfriend, and with the affiliations of the shooter/girlfriend.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I have never subscribed to the notion of a false flag, but there's just a lot of information coming out right now that leaves a lot of questions and not a lot of answers.  I had initially dismissed the notion that there could be a conspiracy here that was bigger than a lone gunman who went on a deluded rampage.  I'm not so sure of this now as we learn a little more about Paddock, and gain more insight into his background. 

There's no clear motive in this shooting. The police did not enter the room until 80 minutes after the shooting stopped. The suspect was dead when they entered. A lot of modification of the crime scene can take place in 80 minutes. Until this makes sense I think all possibilities should be considered, including false flag. That doesn't mean the prevailing story is wrong, but the prevailing story doesn't make sense without a whole lot of other information pointing to the suspect, including a plausible motive.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

For all of those calling for more gun control, this article reasonably addresses the subject after some extensive research, and it's not some conservative writer or website.  It's written by someone who supports more gun control.

The more information we see about this incident, the more it seems like we're simply not being told the entire story about what has been found so far in the hotel room, with the girlfriend, and with the affiliations of the shooter/girlfriend.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I have never subscribed to the notion of a false flag, but there's just a lot of information coming out right now that leaves a lot of questions and not a lot of answers.  I had initially dismissed the notion that there could be a conspiracy here that was bigger than a lone gunman who went on a deluded rampage.  I'm not so sure of this now as we learn a little more about Paddock, and gain more insight into his background. 

There's no clear motive in this shooting. The police did not enter the room until 80 minutes after the shooting stopped. The suspect was dead when they entered. A lot of modification of the crime scene can take place in 80 minutes. Until this makes sense I think all possibilities should be considered, including false flag. That doesn't mean the prevailing story is wrong, but the prevailing story doesn't make sense without a whole lot of other information pointing to the suspect, including a plausible motive.

And yet Trump said the police were so fast......

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For all of those calling for more gun control, this article reasonably addresses the subject after some extensive research, and it's not some conservative writer or website.  It's written by someone who supports more gun control.

The more information we see about this incident, the more it seems like we're simply not being told the entire story about what has been found so far in the hotel room, with the girlfriend, and with the affiliations of the shooter/girlfriend.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I have never subscribed to the notion of a false flag, but there's just a lot of information coming out right now that leaves a lot of questions and not a lot of answers.  I had initially dismissed the notion that there could be a conspiracy here that was bigger than a lone gunman who went on a deluded rampage.  I'm not so sure of this now as we learn a little more about Paddock, and gain more insight into his background. 

There's no clear motive in this shooting. The police did not enter the room until 80 minutes after the shooting stopped. The suspect was dead when they entered. A lot of modification of the crime scene can take place in 80 minutes. Until this makes sense I think all possibilities should be considered, including false flag. That doesn't mean the prevailing story is wrong, but the prevailing story doesn't make sense without a whole lot of other information pointing to the suspect, including a plausible motive.

Agreed.  There's much left to discover about this story.  There's a lot of evidence starting to come out that could give credence to this being more than just a crazed lunatic snapping, and potentially a situation where there were at least 2 shooters.  Other stories indicate there was stuff found in the room that actually indicates a motive.  When the sheriff comes out and says they're looking at the possibility of radicalization, that certainly supports the leaks about what was found in the room.

The fact that they're not releasing any details at this point makes it look like the investigation is more involved, and not as straight forward as some previous mass shootings.  It's an active investigation, and there are some peculiar links that are starting to come into focus in the Philippines and the Middle East that should be cause for concern.

I'd love to see the real autopsy report to indicate when Paddock actually died.  He could have been dead well before the shooting actually started.

There's no clear motive in this shooting. The police did not enter the room until 80 minutes after the shooting stopped. The suspect was dead when they entered. A lot of modification of the crime scene can take place in 80 minutes. Until this makes sense I think all possibilities should be considered, including false flag. That doesn't mean the prevailing story is wrong, but the prevailing story doesn't make sense without a whole lot of other information pointing to the suspect, including a plausible motive.

And yet Trump said the police were so fast......

At least he didn't say they acted stupidly.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

80 minutes .... i have no problem with that.

1) you need to identify the location of the gunman (or gunmen)
2) you don't know how many gunmen there are
3) you don't know if there are explosives
4) you need to secure the hotel (e.g. get guests out of harms way)
5) other tasks that i'm now aware of ......


.

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Yeah as I said I expected him to be off , anyone would be in that situation , just wasn't expecting him to be like that.  

The father is an interesting figure.

it was actually my 1st thought as well ....

the brother's orlando neighbors are probably securing their homes right now with those family genetics next to them.

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The multiple shooters angle is suspicious to me. When it all kicked off their was reports of multiple shooters in different locations and the police scanners indicate that. There was reports of muzzle flash in different areas too initially.

Granted there is a ton of confusion when something like that happen but it certainly seemed like there was more than one shooter in Vegas that night.

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I've never written "There ought'a be a law....." on this board.

Oh? Do tell...

As far as the issue of silencers, ownership of guns by people on the no-fly list and people with mental issues, you're completely right. This should be a no-brainer. They should all be banned,

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The multiple shooters angle is suspicious to me. When it all kicked off their was reports of multiple shooters in different locations and the police scanners indicate that. There was reports of muzzle flash in different areas too initially.

Granted there is a ton of confusion when something like that happen but it certainly seemed like there was more than one shooter in Vegas that night.

I posted about this somewhere in this thread, but I had some distant relatives there staying in Caesar's palace who said there were also shooters in Caesar's palace and that it was absolute mayhem.  He continues to share on his facebook page other people claiming the same thing.

Also reports of shooters in Aria.

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I've never written "There ought'a be a law....." on this board.

Oh? Do tell...

As far as the issue of silencers, ownership of guns by people on the no-fly list and people with mental issues, you're completely right. This should be a no-brainer. They should all be banned,

Well....he didn't use the term "there ought'a be a law....", right?  That's completely different from saying they should all be banned.  I mean, c'mon!  The difference is clear as day, right?

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Even the sheriff is skeptical that Paddock acted alone.  We should start to see more information coming out that supports the notion that, at a minimum, this was an attack that required logistical support to some extent.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Nobody needs suppressors unless they're performing a "hit." There are other options for hearing protection.

This is funny stuff.  You've clearly never actually been around guns, particularly those using suppressors.  You're buying into the Hollywood narrative of what they sound like.  A suppressor doesn't eliminate the sound.  I read an article today that did a good job of describing what it sounds like with a suppressed AK47 or AR15.  It reduces the sound from a gunfire explosion to the sound of a jackhammer.  

I'm not even sure why we're debating suppressors to begin with considering they had absolutely nothing to do with this potential false flag in Vegas.

Man, do I have you fooled. If you only knew...... Message boards are not the place to say what you own or don't own though, so I'll leave it at that. As for the suppressors, I knew they don't totally eliminate sound. I've been around guns all my life and I even field stripped and cleaned one last night while I was watching television. Silencers are like a muffler. It just reduces the noise, but is far from eliminating it. I'm just saying there are alternatives to suppressors, therefore they are not needed. 

If you even insinuate this event was a "false flag" you lose all credibility.

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I've never written "There ought'a be a law....." on this board.

Oh? Do tell...

As far as the issue of silencers, ownership of guns by people on the no-fly list and people with mental issues, you're completely right. This should be a no-brainer. They should all be banned,

Your point? That's two different statements. Fake news!

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Even the sheriff is skeptical that Paddock acted alone.  We should start to see more information coming out that supports the notion that, at a minimum, this was an attack that required logistical support to some extent.

Whether or not he worked alone or with someone, that is a totally different thing from a "False Flag". I tend to believe he did work alone, given the fire power he had and the fact that mental issues ran in his family, but if he did have help, that wouldn't surprise me either. As for the potential of this being a "False Flag," no way.

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This is funny stuff.  You've clearly never actually been around guns, particularly those using suppressors.  You're buying into the Hollywood narrative of what they sound like.  A suppressor doesn't eliminate the sound.  I read an article today that did a good job of describing what it sounds like with a suppressed AK47 or AR15.  It reduces the sound from a gunfire explosion to the sound of a jackhammer.  

I'm not even sure why we're debating suppressors to begin with considering they had absolutely nothing to do with this potential false flag in Vegas.

Man, do I have you fooled. If you only knew...... Message boards are not the place to say what you own or don't own though, so I'll leave it at that. As for the suppressors, I knew they don't totally eliminate sound. I've been around guns all my life and I even field stripped and cleaned one last night while I was watching television. Silencers are like a muffler. It just reduces the noise, but is far from eliminating it. I'm just saying there are alternatives to suppressors, therefore they are not needed. 

If you even insinuate this event was a "false flag" you lose all credibility.

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Oh? Do tell...

Your point? That's two different statements. Fake news!

Fooled me? You're suggesting alternatives to buying suppressors like using a soda bottle as a "ghetto" silencer. Actual shooters don't use them just to suppress the sound of the gunfire. In most cases, that's just an added benefit. They use them to increase the accuracy of their weapons. Congratulations on field stripping a gun. We're all impressed. Still, doesn't give you any more credibility in saying suppressors should be illegal as if they're some nefarious device used for evil doing because that's the Hollywood stereotype.

LOL - My credibility?  There are several reports out there indicating the possibility of a false flag.  I didn't call it a false flag.  I simply said the potential does exist, and based on some of the affiliations that are starting to bubble up, the various reports I've seen run the gamut from a blown sting operation to a possible terrorist act involving multiple shooters.  

We're not hearing any real details from law enforcement, so there's all sorts of speculation, including the false flag discussion.  Pump the brakes and let's wait to see if we ever get the real story before you start declaring someone losing their credibility over a story we know almost nothing about because of the lid they're keeping on this.  

If you're not even remotely curious about why details haven't been released on a motive, or the connection he had through his girlfriend in the Philippines, that's fine.  You're more than welcome to keep your head buried in the sand on that one.

Even the sheriff is skeptical that Paddock acted alone.  We should start to see more information coming out that supports the notion that, at a minimum, this was an attack that required logistical support to some extent.

Whether or not he worked alone or with someone, that is a totally different thing from a "False Flag". I tend to believe he did work alone, given the fire power he had and the fact that mental issues ran in his family, but if he did have help, that wouldn't surprise me either. As for the potential of this being a "False Flag," no way.

Not necessarily.  At the end of the day, he could have ended up being nothing more than a patsy for others who intended to do the maximum amount of damage possible using him as the shell man to get them the weaponry they needed.  The guy could have been dead before the gunfire even started for all we know.  

You sure are getting yourself worked up into quite the lather over a false flag reference.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Paddock was down playing games that same night. Brother initially said dude can't even shoot, then changed with interview on CBS that false as can be as had an ear piece in with someone telling him what to say. A video from a Uber/Cabby and you can hear shots but from close to far away...saying it sounded like coming from the 10th floor, another video showing flashes from the 4th floor. A security officer was supposedly killed around 1019 or so when he approached the door. Then this guy offs himself??? This whole narrative that the cops are pushing is suspect. Another video shows a cop behind a wall and he clearly states more than one shooter. How do you break out tempered glass windows without alarming people? How did he supposedly get 42 guns into the hotel when they have metal detectors? The hotel was booked too. This screams of pros doing it and this guy wasn't one. Just an unlucky sap IMO. Another thing. A video there with a guy walking around trying to find live people and they had turned the lights out then. He asks a guy to turn them on and the response was "why they are all dead". Callous disregard for life. The response was "no they are not, there is people out there trying to help. Stinks big time IMO.

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