I still dont understand how you dont draft the guy that broke Barry Sanders record? McCaffrey would be the best back in the league behind a good oline. If the running game is not working, spread him out

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They wanted toughness. I do feel LF will have a bounce back year if he can stay healthy, a big if

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unfortunately this is spot on

when richardson was coming out I was adamant he was going to bust.. I could tell he had 0 lateral ability, and was just playing behind an NFL line in college

sadly, I was wrong on Leonard.. I thought I saw on tape enough lateral agility and cut back ability that he was different.. he was massive, with crazy speed, and I thought he had enough of the other stuff

having said that, I maintain our style on offense from top to bottom is TRASH and hard to evaluate anyone (except bortles who is easy to evaluate)

I would like to see Leonard in a zone block scheme where he can make 1 cut and go, and then we would really find out if he is a bust, but right now, it certainly looks bad

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I’m constantly amazed by people who discount the important interdependency between certain positions on a football team. For example, an average defensive secondary can suddenly become stellar when the front seven improves its pressure on the QB .In similar fashion,  an average running back can be made to look all-Pro if he has an outstanding offensive line. Sometimes, though rarely, a generational running back can overcome deficiencies in his OL simply due to his exceptional talent. TheJags OL is not now, nor was at the beginning of the season, an exceptional group. Injuries further degraded them as the season progressed. I think that LF is a very talented RB when he gets adequate blocking. But the same argument can be made about backs who get chosen in later rounds of the draft. For my money, I would focus on shoring up the OL first, because once that’s accomplished, LF or another RB chosen later in the draft will succeed.

But yet Yeldon can average 4.0 YPC behind the same line. Gotcha.

In the last 7 games Yeldon has had a total of only 25 carries for 87 yards, a 3.5 average, about the same as Fournette’s 3.4 Y.T.D. average. So the inference you make that Yeldon has somehow been able to achieve superior results with the same blocking falls flat on its face.
Interestingly, among the top 12 rushers this year in terms of yards per carry, only 4 were first round selections in the draft. An equal number were UFA’s, and 3 were second round selections. My point is that a quality running back can be found later than round one, and that by focusing more on obtaining quality offensive linemen, at a cheaper price, you can achieve better results.
Another interesting fact is that 10 of the 12 rushing leaders were 2017 or 2018 draftees.

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I’m constantly amazed by people who discount the important interdependency between certain positions on a football team. For example, an average defensive secondary can suddenly become stellar when the front seven improves its pressure on the QB .In similar fashion,  an average running back can be made to look all-Pro if he has an outstanding offensive line. Sometimes, though rarely, a generational running back can overcome deficiencies in his OL simply due to his exceptional talent. TheJags OL is not now, nor was at the beginning of the season, an exceptional group. Injuries further degraded them as the season progressed. I think that LF is a very talented RB when he gets adequate blocking. But the same argument can be made about backs who get chosen in later rounds of the draft. For my money, I would focus on shoring up the OL first, because once that’s accomplished, LF or another RB chosen later in the draft will succeed.

But yet Yeldon can average 4.0 YPC behind the same line. Gotcha.

You've got to look at more than a single stat. Are both RBs averaging what they average on 1st and 10? 2nd and 3?

I haven't dug, but most of the time I see Yeldon in on the long-yardage downs, as he is the better pass-catching back. Running a 7-yard draw on 3rd and 13 is great for the average, but still results in a punt.

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Todd Gurley averaged 3.7 yrs career his sophomore year. I think Fournette will have a much better season next year when Cam comes back and we also add a couple other pieces to the oline in the offeeason.

And if Fournette averaged 4.8 ypc as a rookie like Gurley did that would change the outlook quite a bit perhaps.

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I still dont understand how you dont draft the guy that broke Barry Sanders record? McCaffrey would be the best back in the league behind a good oline. If the running game is not working, spread him out

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They wanted toughness. I do feel LF will have a bounce back year if he can stay healthy, a big if

Oh well if they wanted toughness they should have looked straight to McCaffrey too. Dude is the premier workhorse in the league. And it's not even remotely close.
(And this wasn't hard to see in advance either, McCaffrey had gigantic snap counts and a huge between the tackle % in college too)

https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/1075068026876256256

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Todd Gurley averaged 3.7 yrs career his sophomore year.  I think Fournette will have a much better season next year when Cam comes back and we also add a couple other pieces to the oline in the offeeason.

And if Fournette averaged 4.8 ypc as a rookie like Gurley did that would change the outlook quite a bit perhaps.

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I still dont understand how you dont draft the guy that broke Barry Sanders record? McCaffrey would be the best back in the league behind a good oline.  If the running game is not working, spread him out

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They wanted toughness.  I do feel LF will have a bounce back year if he can stay healthy, a big if

Oh well if they wanted toughness they should have looked straight to McCaffrey too. Dude is the premier workhorse in the league. And it's not even remotely close.
(And this wasn't hard to see in advance either, McCaffrey had gigantic snap counts and a huge between the tackle % in college too)

https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/1075068026876256256

I know, McCaffrey is who I wanted.

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I can’t believe people are already trying to say he’s a best. Dude is the best pro style HB in the league. If he was on a conptent team he would be MVP

Just curious.. what the hell is a "pro style HB"?

..and what makes Fournette the "best pro style HB in the entire league" over everyone else (why aren't they "pro style HBs" too, but Fournette is.. what's the difference?)

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And if Fournette averaged 4.8 ypc as a rookie like Gurley did that would change the outlook quite a bit perhaps.

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Oh well if they wanted toughness they should have looked straight to McCaffrey too. Dude is the premier workhorse in the league. And it's not even remotely close.
(And this wasn't hard to see in advance either, McCaffrey had gigantic snap counts and a huge between the tackle % in college too)

https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/1075068026876256256

I know, McCaffrey is who I wanted.

Yup, he is a stud. Such a terrific player.

Although, with a workhorse load like that in addition to the amount of "mileage" he put in at college, it won't be too long before he's worn out (similar to what happened to MJD). 

But man, what a player to have for a few seasons while he still has some "tread" left!

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I know, McCaffrey is who I wanted.

Yup, he is a stud. Such a terrific player.

Although, with a workhorse load like that in addition to the amount of "mileage" he put in at college, it won't be too long before he's worn out (similar to what happened to MJD). 

But man, what a player to have for a few seasons while he still has some "tread" left!

This right here is the sole reason you don't spend a 1st rounder on a RB. CMac, Gurley, Zeke and Barkley are all great talents but it's rare for RBs to produce at a high level for as long as WRs and QBs do on offense.

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So now we're two years in and Fournette's stats are right about where Richardson's were. Anyone still feeling good about taking a running back in the top five?

Will we see Leonard playing for the AAF or XFL soon?

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Trent Richardson's first 2 years:

455 attempts, 1513 yards, 14 TDs, 3.3 YPA
683 receiving yards, 2 TDs
2196 total yards and 16 TDs

Leonard Fournette's first 2 years

401 attempts, 1479 yards, 14 TDs, 3.7 YPA
487 receiving yards, 2 TDs
1966 total yards, 16 TDs


Fournette has missed more games, but the attempts are very similar to it's a pretty fair comparison.

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Trent Richardson's first 2 years:

455 attempts, 1513 yards, 14 TDs, 3.3 YPA
683 receiving yards, 2 TDs
2196 total yards and 16 TDs

Leonard Fournette's first 2 years

401 attempts, 1479 yards, 14 TDs, 3.7 YPA
487 receiving yards, 2 TDs
1966 total yards, 16 TDs


Fournette has missed more games, but the attempts are very similar to it's a pretty fair comparison.

It's a fair comparison as football players. I think some people are basing their feelings about him on how they'd compare as track runners.

It's hard for top end speed to matter when you need a lot of runway to reach it and you have mediocre vision.

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unfortunately this is spot on

when richardson was coming out I was adamant he was going to bust.. I could tell he had 0 lateral ability, and was just playing behind an NFL line in college

sadly, I was wrong on Leonard.. I thought I saw on tape enough lateral agility and cut back ability that he was different.. he was massive, with crazy speed, and I thought he had enough of the other stuff

having said that, I maintain our style on offense from top to bottom is TRASH and hard to evaluate anyone (except bortles who is easy to evaluate)

I would like to see Leonard in a zone block scheme where he can make 1 cut and go, and then we would really find out if he is a bust, but right now, it certainly looks bad

I disagree, I think Leonard needs a GAP scheme. One of the weaknesses he had coming out of college was he had a tendency to tunnel and play through a straw. If that's the case, just have a FB lead block, Pull a Guard, and throw blocks at a gap to manufacture space for him to get up to speed. People complain about his "vision", a zone scheme is all vision and making a cut/decision. I don't want LF27 thinking and hesitating, I want him running downhill with a full head of steam and punishing a would be tackler in the hole. It's hard to run a gap scheme with backup olinemen and thats why we saw far more zone towards the end of the season to meh results (also explains David Williams "running better" as he played in a zone running scheme in college and in Denver through training camp).

Most of Leonard's big plays last year like the 90 yard run against the Steelers, the long run against LA etc. we're GAP scheme playcalls. Just call the types of plays that cater to the strengths of the players on offense. Our coaching staff is too inept to do that. #feelsbadman

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Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

unfortunately this is spot on

when richardson was coming out I was adamant he was going to bust.. I could tell he had 0 lateral ability, and was just playing behind an NFL line in college

sadly, I was wrong on Leonard.. I thought I saw on tape enough lateral agility and cut back ability that he was different.. he was massive, with crazy speed, and I thought he had enough of the other stuff

having said that, I maintain our style on offense from top to bottom is TRASH and hard to evaluate anyone (except bortles who is easy to evaluate)

I would like to see Leonard in a zone block scheme where he can make 1 cut and go, and then we would really find out if he is a bust, but right now, it certainly looks bad

I disagree, I think Leonard needs a GAP scheme. One of the weaknesses he had coming out of college was he had a tendency to tunnel and play through a straw. If that's the case, just have a FB lead block, Pull a Guard, and throw blocks at a gap to manufacture space for him to get up to speed. People complain about his "vision", a zone scheme is all vision and making a cut/decision. I don't want LF27 thinking and hesitating, I want him running downhill with a full head of steam and punishing a would be tackler in the hole. It's hard to run a gap scheme with backup olinemen and thats why we saw far more zone towards the end of the season to meh results (also explains David Williams "running better" as he played in a zone running scheme in college and in Denver through training camp).

Most of Leonard's big plays last year like the 90 yard run against the Steelers, the long run against LA etc. we're GAP scheme playcalls. Just call the types of plays that cater to the strengths of the players on offense. Our coaching staff is too inept to do that. #feelsbadman

Most of our stuff is GAP

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I believe it actually says more about the QBs on each team than the running backs, but take from it what you will.

If Leonard Fournette falls off the same cliff of complete uselessness that Richardson did, then get back in here, resurrect your pet thread, and pat yourself on the back till the cows come home. I'll celebrate your victory and deprecate my own posts with great fervor. 

Until then...  bad comp.

So does Robinson's year so far and Leonard's backup status in Tampa change anyone's mind about Fournette, or is it still the rest of the team's fault that he was constantly shoving his head up Linder's butt?

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If Leonard Fournette falls off the same cliff of complete uselessness that Richardson did, then get back in here, resurrect your pet thread, and pat yourself on the back till the cows come home. I'll celebrate your victory and deprecate my own posts with great fervor. 

Until then...  bad comp.

So does Robinson's year so far and Leonard's backup status in Tampa change anyone's mind about Fournette, or is it still the rest of the team's fault that he was constantly shoving his head up Linder's butt?

Still a stupid comparison. 

I led the charge of the "buyer beware brigade" before LF was drafted. 
I said his tape vs Alabama was what he'd look like vs most NFL defenses most weeks and that's exactly what happened. 

However, the Richardson comp is stupid, because LF has produced meaningful stats and has proven he can still be useful in the right offense. Didn't work out that way for Richardson. 

I'm just glad Caldwell was able to rid the team of that particular Coughlin draft mistake before he was fired.

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

So does Robinson's year so far and Leonard's backup status in Tampa change anyone's mind about Fournette, or is it still the rest of the team's fault that he was constantly shoving his head up Linder's butt?

Still a stupid comparison. 

I led the charge of the "buyer beware brigade" before LF was drafted. 
I said his tape vs Alabama was what he'd look like vs most NFL defenses most weeks and that's exactly what happened. 

However, the Richardson comp is stupid, because LF has produced meaningful stats and has proven he can still be useful in the right offense. Didn't work out that way for Richardson. 

I'm just glad Caldwell was able to rid the team of that particular Coughlin draft mistake before he was fired.

They had almost the same stats through the first couple of seasons. The difference was Fournette had a couple of long runs that didn't impact a game.

You don't have to agree, but the stats aren't particularly on Fournette's side.

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Trent Richardson's first 2 years:

455 attempts, 1513 yards, 14 TDs, 3.3 YPA
683 receiving yards, 2 TDs
2196 total yards and 16 TDs

Leonard Fournette's first 2 years

401 attempts, 1479 yards, 14 TDs, 3.7 YPA
487 receiving yards, 2 TDs
1966 total yards, 16 TDs


Fournette has missed more games, but the attempts are very similar to it's a pretty fair comparison.

I like how you conveniently left off year 3 when Fournette had a total of 1,700 yards whereas Richardson only had 750 total yards.  

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Trent Richardson's first 2 years:

455 attempts, 1513 yards, 14 TDs, 3.3 YPA
683 receiving yards, 2 TDs
2196 total yards and 16 TDs

Leonard Fournette's first 2 years

401 attempts, 1479 yards, 14 TDs, 3.7 YPA
487 receiving yards, 2 TDs
1966 total yards, 16 TDs


Fournette has missed more games, but the attempts are very similar to it's a pretty fair comparison.

I like how you conveniently left off year 3 when Fournette had a total of 1,700 yards whereas Richardson only had 750 total yards.  

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Getting hung up on stats like that is why some people can't see the forest for the trees.

He's bad, he had 1700 yards that lead to 3 TDS and a 6-10 record. Fournette's stats are the product of a regime trying to manufacture stats for a guy that was a massive draft bust. That no one was willing to trade for him going into this season (after his super awesome 1700 yards), and he's just a backup now says all you need to know. He was a Trent Richardson level bust.

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