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Colin Kaepernick and the NFL reach settlement
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(02-20-2019, 07:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:And Tebow actually tried to get back in the NFL, while Kap just uses it for his image(02-20-2019, 02:19 PM)JackCity Wrote: huh,Bortles has looked like a bottom 5 QB in 3 different seasons, Kap has looked like a starter in all but one, even when he didn't have anything around him in 2016. That isn't comparable. Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(02-20-2019, 08:14 PM)p_rushing Wrote:That's true, we see who the real victim is. Tebow is just man and he don't whine, cry, and throw a fit about it and say poor pitiful me. He just goes on to his next number of jobs(02-20-2019, 07:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Lol, sure is funny all the love you have for Kap but talked trash about the guy that is better and got blackballed from the league just like Kap did.. Hmmmmm. Everything you hated about Tebow Kap was pretty much the same just not as good. Kind of ironicAnd Tebow actually tried to get back in the NFL, while Kap just uses it for his image (02-20-2019, 07:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:(02-20-2019, 02:19 PM)JackCity Wrote: huh,Bortles has looked like a bottom 5 QB in 3 different seasons, Kap has looked like a starter in all but one, even when he didn't have anything around him in 2016. That isn't comparable. Tebow better than Kaep?!? Using what standard?!? Completion percentage? No. Kaepernick's completion percentage is a whopping 12 points higher than Tebow's. TD-INT ratio? No. Kaepernick has a career 72-30 TD-INT ratio (over 2-1). Tebow has a 17-9 TD-INT ratio. Career yards? Kaepernick has 12,271 yards, Tebow has 2422. Yards per attempt? Kaepernick has a 7.3 yards per attempt. Tebow has a 6.7 yards per attempt. Biggest NFL accomplishment? Kaepernick reached the Super Bowl and was within a TD of winning it all. Tebow beat the Steelers in a wild card round on a cover zero, and was promptly beaten the next week. In short, he never sniffed the Super Bowl. I've heard of false equivalencies, but jeez! By the way, Kaepernick's detractors trumpet kaepernick's benching as an argument against him. But why does Chip Kelly, of all people, get the benefit of the doubt for making that decision in the first place? First off, he permanently reversed the decision 6 games into the season. Secondly, after his first year in Philadelphia, he's done nothing but fail in football. He ran the Eagles into the ground, and they promptly rebounded once they fired him. When he went to the 49ers, he guided them to a 2-14 record and was one and done. Then he went to UCLA, where he promptly ran that program into the ground. You'd think as cliche' as it is for fans to second guess the coach when it comes to QB decisions, a guy with Chip Kelly's record would be loaded with scrutiny for that decision. Yet, because people don't like Kaepernick's stance on police brutality-NOT anti military/vet/country/flag/anthem-somehow Kelly is immune from second guessing on that move. Unreal! Worst to 1st. Curse Reversed!
(02-20-2019, 08:22 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:(02-20-2019, 08:14 PM)p_rushing Wrote: And Tebow actually tried to get back in the NFL, while Kap just uses it for his imageThat's true, we see who the real victim is. Tebow is just man and he don't whine, cry, and throw a fit about it and say poor pitiful me. He just goes on to his next number of jobs But there is no evidence whatsoever his faith was a reason he was denied job opportunities. Everyone knew his faith when he was drafted by the Broncos. Every team knew his faith when he was traded to the Jets. His faith was no secret to NFL teams when the Patriots gave him one last shot. He is out of football because he sucked, period. Worst to 1st. Curse Reversed!
(02-20-2019, 08:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote:Just like Kap(02-20-2019, 08:22 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: That's true, we see who the real victim is. Tebow is just man and he don't whine, cry, and throw a fit about it and say poor pitiful me. He just goes on to his next number of jobs Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (02-20-2019, 08:46 PM)p_rushing Wrote:(02-20-2019, 08:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: But there is no evidence whatsoever his faith was a reason he was denied job opportunities.Just like Kap Please elaborate. I already provided a statistical comparison of the two players, and it wasn't even close. Kaepernick spectacularly outclassed Tebow has a player. Do you assert there are no Christians in the NFL? Tell that to Calais Campbell and Phillip Rivers. Worst to 1st. Curse Reversed!
(02-20-2019, 08:26 PM)Bullseye Wrote:Tebow has accomplished more on a football field than Kap has ever thought about except when he went to the league that blackballed him, Shocker. Im not gonna get into what he accomplished before on a field before Manning came to Den and no team wanted anything to do with Tebow mania and his christian believes. His early career he was putting up better stats than John Elway and many other greats. Kap failed to lead a team with the best roster in the league to a championship, one that Alex Smith was on the trail to do before the injury. Getting benched for Blaine Gabbert is another one of his great accomplishments. Oh and you mean the Chip Kelly that helped take Foles to a 27 TD and 2 Int season? As bad as you think Kelly is, what does that say about Foles? Oh yeah, the Foles that didnt fail his team like Kap and led them to their first NFL Championship(02-20-2019, 07:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Lol, sure is funny all the love you have for Kap but talked trash about the guy that is better and got blackballed from the league just like Kap did.. Hmmmmm. Everything you hated about Tebow Kap was pretty much the same just not as good. Kind of ironic (02-20-2019, 08:50 PM)Bullseye Wrote:(02-20-2019, 08:46 PM)p_rushing Wrote: Just like Kap Did nobody else kneel like kap? Please tell that to half the league (02-20-2019, 07:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:(02-20-2019, 02:19 PM)JackCity Wrote: huh,Bortles has looked like a bottom 5 QB in 3 different seasons, Kap has looked like a starter in all but one, even when he didn't have anything around him in 2016. That isn't comparable. Whew boy theres a lot to breakdown here. First off, I honestly think you need to let the Tebow stuff go man, it's a really weird look for you. Just because he's went to your college doesn't mean you need to be in love years after his football career finished. Secondly no Tim Tebow wasn't a better NFL QB than Kap. Kap had multiple seasons where he was a good starting QB. More accomplished college QB for sure. I don't hate Tebow, he's just not a good NFL QB and that's why he's not in the league (02-20-2019, 08:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:(02-20-2019, 08:26 PM)Bullseye Wrote: Tebow better than Kaep?!?Tebow has accomplished more on a football field than Kap has ever thought about except when he went to the league that blackballed him, Shocker. Im not gonna get into what he accomplished before on a field before Manning came to Den and no team wanted anything to do with Tebow mania and his christian believes. His early career he was putting up better stats than John Elway and many other greats. Kap failed to lead a team with the best roster in the league to a championship, one that Alex Smith was on the trail to do before the injury. Getting benched for Blaine Gabbert is another one of his great accomplishments. Oh and you mean the Chip Kelly that helped take Foles to a 27 TD and 2 Int season? As bad as you think Kelly is, what does that say about Foles? Oh yeah, the Foles that didnt fail his team like Kap and led them to their first NFL Championship You sound like a teenage girl talking about her favourite band. "His early stats were better than John Elway and many greats early on" Eh yeah Elway was absolutely miserable as a rookie QB so that means very little , he also played in the 80s. Let it go man
(02-20-2019, 08:58 PM)JackCity Wrote:He might not be as good as i think he was but he was a good bit better than some of the starters. Gabbert and butt fumble to name a few. If Rex Ryan wasnt so busy getting a tatto of Sanchez he would of gave Tebow a chance(02-20-2019, 07:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Lol, sure is funny all the love you have for Kap but talked trash about the guy that is better and got blackballed from the league just like Kap did.. Hmmmmm. Everything you hated about Tebow Kap was pretty much the same just not as good. Kind of ironic If Kap was a Gator, maybe I would of liked him more but when you sit back and look at their pro days, Tebow and Kap were very similar like the great Joe Montana stated. 2 running QBs with accuracy issues We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (02-20-2019, 09:10 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:(02-20-2019, 08:58 PM)JackCity Wrote: Whew boy theres a lot to breakdown here.He might not be as good as i think he was but he was a good bit better than some of the starters. Gabbert and butt fumble to name a few. If Rex Ryan wasnt so busy getting a tatto of Sanchez he would of gave Tebow a chance He definitely wasn't good. I think there are specific gameplans you could make with Tebow at QB (similar to what the Ravens did this year but would be less dynamic) and win a game or two. But having a QB that poor at throwing isn't sustainable. Gabbert may not be good but he can at least throw the ball pretty well. Tebow should have done what Burton did and became a full on TE. Yeah no Tebow was much less accurate than Kap was. Kap was more in the Cam Newton range (up until this year) where his accuracy was spotty but he had amazing placement on difficult passes. Tebow really struggled to throw anything with accuracy (02-20-2019, 08:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [quote pid='1194625' dateline='1550708791'] Quote:Tebow has accomplished more on a football field than Kap has ever thought about except when he went to the league that blackballed him, Shocker. Im not gonna get into what he accomplished before on a field before Manning came to Den and no team wanted anything to do with Tebow mania and his christian believes. His early career he was putting up better stats than John Elway and many other greats. Kap failed to lead a team with the best roster in the league to a championship, one that Alex Smith was on the trail to do before the injury. Getting benched for Blaine Gabbert is another one of his great accomplishments. Oh and you mean the Chip Kelly that helped take Foles to a 27 TD and 2 Int season? As bad as you think Kelly is, what does that say about Foles? Oh yeah, the Foles that didnt fail his team like Kap and led them to their first NFL Championship (02-20-2019, 08:50 PM)Bullseye Wrote: Please elaborate. Did nobody else kneel like kap? Please tell that to half the league [/quote] 1. I'm talking NFL accomplishments, not college. If you want to debate football accomplishments below the NFL level, there are any number of college and high school boards. 2. Why would Denver pursue an expensive and near retirement age Peyton Manning if they already had "Tebow the great" on the roster, having expended a first round pick on him? 3. Early in his career?!? The stats I posted are Tebow's CAREER totals! After three years, Elway already had a vastly better record as a starter (27-13 vs Tebow's 8-6), almost four times as many more yards (8152 vs Tebow's 2422), almost 6 times as many TDs (47 to Tebow's 8), a higher completion percentage (52.6 vs 47.9), and more 4th quarter comebacks (9-6). 4. Alex Smith had the same team kaepernick did, and didn't take it to the Super Bowl. Kaepernick took that team to the Super Bowl. 5. It doesn't say anything bad about Foles. Foles succeeded under Kelly and under Pederson. 6. What in blazes are you talking about with your last point? 7. Please, I beg you, stop saying Tebow outperformed Kaepernick, not to mention a first ballot Hall of Famer like John Freaking Elway. There is ZERO objective factual basis for you to make that claim. Worst to 1st. Curse Reversed!
(02-20-2019, 09:18 PM)Bullseye Wrote:(02-20-2019, 08:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [quote pid='1194625' dateline='1550708791']Tebow has accomplished more on a football field than Kap has ever thought about except when he went to the league that blackballed him, Shocker. Im not gonna get into what he accomplished before on a field before Manning came to Den and no team wanted anything to do with Tebow mania and his christian believes. His early career he was putting up better stats than John Elway and many other greats. Kap failed to lead a team with the best roster in the league to a championship, one that Alex Smith was on the trail to do before the injury. Getting benched for Blaine Gabbert is another one of his great accomplishments. Oh and you mean the Chip Kelly that helped take Foles to a 27 TD and 2 Int season? As bad as you think Kelly is, what does that say about Foles? Oh yeah, the Foles that didnt fail his team like Kap and led them to their first NFL Championship 1. I'm talking NFL accomplishments, not college. If you want to debate football accomplishments below the NFL level, there are any number of college and high school boards. 2. Why would Denver pursue an expensive and near retirement age Peyton Manning if they already had "Tebow the great" on the roster, having expended a first round pick on him? 3. Early in his career?!? The stats I posted are Tebow's CAREER totals! After three years, Elway already had a vastly better record as a starter (27-13 vs Tebow's 8-6), almost four times as many more yards (8152 vs Tebow's 2422), almost 6 times as many TDs (47 to Tebow's 8), a higher completion percentage (52.6 vs 47.9), and more 4th quarter comebacks (9-6). 4. Alex Smith had the same team kaepernick did, and didn't take it to the Super Bowl. Kaepernick took that team to the Super Bowl. 5. It doesn't say anything bad about Foles. Foles succeeded under Kelly and under Pederson. 6. What in blazes are you talking about with your last point? 7. Please, I beg you, stop saying Tebow outperformed Kaepernick, not to mention a first ballot Hall of Famer like John Freaking Elway. There is ZERO objective factual basis for you to make that claim. [/quote] Im not trying to hurt you feelings but https://bleacherreport.com/articles/9710...nfl-starts http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/...than-elway https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/john-...in-denver/ ![[Image: tim-tebow-john-elway.jpg]](https://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/tim-tebow-john-elway.jpg)
(02-20-2019, 09:18 PM)Bullseye Wrote:(02-20-2019, 08:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [quote pid='1194625' dateline='1550708791']Tebow has accomplished more on a football field than Kap has ever thought about except when he went to the league that blackballed him, Shocker. Im not gonna get into what he accomplished before on a field before Manning came to Den and no team wanted anything to do with Tebow mania and his christian believes. His early career he was putting up better stats than John Elway and many other greats. Kap failed to lead a team with the best roster in the league to a championship, one that Alex Smith was on the trail to do before the injury. Getting benched for Blaine Gabbert is another one of his great accomplishments. Oh and you mean the Chip Kelly that helped take Foles to a 27 TD and 2 Int season? As bad as you think Kelly is, what does that say about Foles? Oh yeah, the Foles that didnt fail his team like Kap and led them to their first NFL Championship 1. I'm talking NFL accomplishments, not college. If you want to debate football accomplishments below the NFL level, there are any number of college and high school boards. 2. Why would Denver pursue an expensive and near retirement age Peyton Manning if they already had "Tebow the great" on the roster, having expended a first round pick on him? 3. Early in his career?!? The stats I posted are Tebow's CAREER totals! After three years, Elway already had a vastly better record as a starter (27-13 vs Tebow's 8-6), almost four times as many more yards (8152 vs Tebow's 2422), almost 6 times as many TDs (47 to Tebow's 8), a higher completion percentage (52.6 vs 47.9), and more 4th quarter comebacks (9-6). 4. Alex Smith had the same team kaepernick did, and didn't take it to the Super Bowl. Kaepernick took that team to the Super Bowl. 5. It doesn't say anything bad about Foles. Foles succeeded under Kelly and under Pederson. 6. What in blazes are you talking about with your last point? 7. Please, I beg you, stop saying Tebow outperformed Kaepernick, not to mention a first ballot Hall of Famer like John Freaking Elway. There is ZERO objective factual basis for you to make that claim. [/quote] 1. Of course you dont want to discuss prior accomplishments before he goes to the league he got blackballed in. It wouldnt be a contest 2. Why would they persue Peyton when they did? You mean the guy that set the TD record in Den and won MVP? Yeah, why would they do that lol 3. Just posted his earlier stats above where he beat Elway in every catagory 4. Kap failed the job that Smith was set to do before he got hurt 5. Agreed, just shows the talent of Foles and a guy that can get the job done when taking over for an injured QB unlike Kap 6. which point? 7. Kap cant hold Tebows jock strap. No seriously though, similar playing styles but he just wasnt on Tebows level We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
John Elway had one of the worst rookie seasons of all time, so I don't know why doing better than that is some great achievement lmao
[quote pid='1194641' dateline='1550712314']
Bullseye (02-20-2019, 09:18 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Tebow has accomplished more on a football field than Kap has ever thought about except when he went to the league that blackballed him, Shocker. Im not gonna get into what he accomplished before on a field before Manning came to Den and no team wanted anything to do with Tebow mania and his christian believes. His early career he was putting up better stats than John Elway and many other greats. Kap failed to lead a team with the best roster in the league to a championship, one that Alex Smith was on the trail to do before the injury. Getting benched for Blaine Gabbert is another one of his great accomplishments. Oh and you mean the Chip Kelly that helped take Foles to a 27 TD and 2 Int season? As bad as you think Kelly is, what does that say about Foles? Oh yeah, the Foles that didnt fail his team like Kap and led them to their first NFL Championship 1. I'm talking NFL accomplishments, not college. If you want to debate football accomplishments below the NFL level, there are any number of college and high school boards. 2. Why would Denver pursue an expensive and near retirement age Peyton Manning if they already had "Tebow the great" on the roster, having expended a first round pick on him? 3. Early in his career?!? The stats I posted are Tebow's CAREER totals! After three years, Elway already had a vastly better record as a starter (27-13 vs Tebow's 8-6), almost four times as many more yards (8152 vs Tebow's 2422), almost 6 times as many TDs (47 to Tebow's 8), a higher completion percentage (52.6 vs 47.9), and more 4th quarter comebacks (9-6). 4. Alex Smith had the same team kaepernick did, and didn't take it to the Super Bowl. Kaepernick took that team to the Super Bowl. 5. It doesn't say anything bad about Foles. Foles succeeded under Kelly and under Pederson. 6. What in blazes are you talking about with your last point? 7. Please, I beg you, stop saying Tebow outperformed Kaepernick, not to mention a first ballot Hall of Famer like John Freaking Elway. There is ZERO objective factual basis for you to make that claim. [/quote] Im not trying to hurt you feelings but https://bleacherreport.com/articles/9710...nfl-starts http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/...than-elway https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/john-...in-denver/ [/quote] You aren't hurting my feelings at all. You are hurting my sides from laughing so hard at your ridiculous premise. The sites you offer make theri arguments after 8 games. EIGHT. That's half a season...or half of Tebow's total career starts. Played during an era where defenses are neutered, as opposed to Elway, where defenses were actually allowed to hit. I didn't even bother to click the CBS sports link, because the title speaks to the ridiculousness of the premise. If only Peyton Manning could have replaced Tebow in Denver (forget Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers or many others), then couldn't Tebow have replaced every other QB in the league not named Peyton Manning? Did he? Just stop! P.S.-To the mods: The quote feature is reversing the names in the event of multiple quotes quoted. At least it did in this post before I switched them using the edit feature. Worst to 1st. Curse Reversed!
Oh for crying out loud. Tebow and Kap are exactly the same; neither is talented enough for a team to put up with their circus.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato
(02-20-2019, 09:42 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Oh for crying out loud. Tebow and Kap are exactly the same; neither is talented enough for a team to put up with their circus. Thats pretty much what the great Joe Montana said. I guess ill just have to take his word for it. Im sure he knows more about QB play than anyone on this board We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today! (02-20-2019, 09:46 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:(02-20-2019, 09:42 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Oh for crying out loud. Tebow and Kap are exactly the same; neither is talented enough for a team to put up with their circus. You ever heard Terry Bradshaw talk about football? (02-20-2019, 09:33 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:(02-20-2019, 09:18 PM)Bullseye Wrote: Tebow has accomplished more on a football field than Kap has ever thought about except when he went to the league that blackballed him, Shocker. Im not gonna get into what he accomplished before on a field before Manning came to Den and no team wanted anything to do with Tebow mania and his christian believes. His early career he was putting up better stats than John Elway and many other greats. Kap failed to lead a team with the best roster in the league to a championship, one that Alex Smith was on the trail to do before the injury. Getting benched for Blaine Gabbert is another one of his great accomplishments. Oh and you mean the Chip Kelly that helped take Foles to a 27 TD and 2 Int season? As bad as you think Kelly is, what does that say about Foles? Oh yeah, the Foles that didnt fail his team like Kap and led them to their first NFL Championship Quote:1. Of course you dont want to discuss prior accomplishments before he goes to the league he got blackballed in. It wouldnt be a contest[/quote] 1. I am only concerned about NFL accomplishments on an NFL board. If were talking about college accomplishments, I'm sure we could bring such stalwarts like Johnny Manziel, Andre Ware, and Archie Griffin into the discussion. But since we are talking about the NFL, and since those guys, like Tebow, accomplished jack [BLEEP] in the NFL, they aren't worth discussing, just like Tebow if you didn't insist on bringing him into a discussion that did not mention him. 2. That is precisely my point! Denver had just spent a 1st round pick on Tebow two years earlier. If Tebow were performing like a competent NFL QB, they wouldn't have bothered bringing in Manning. They would have let Tebow continue to develop. Instead, they saw first hand what just about everyone else could see: Tebow sucks. Let's put this in more contemporary terms. Why would Kansas City bother trading away Mahomes for Phillip Rivers? 3. No...you didn't. Not even close. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...waJo00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...boTi00.htm 4. Failed to do the job?!? Three points from winning a Super Bowl as opposed to never getting there? Okay...?!? 5. What in the world does Foles have to do with this conversation? You have introduced two QBs completely irrelevant to the discussion. If it will satisfy you, I will concede that Kaepernick is not as good as Foles on the basis of not being able to win a Super Bowl. Of course, if you apply that logic to the population of QBs as a whole, you would get some questionable results, like Trent Dilfer being a better QB than Dan Marino and Brad Johnson being better than Jim Kelly. 6. The point about players other than Kaepernick kneeling. (02-20-2019, 09:42 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Oh for crying out loud. Tebow and Kap are exactly the same; neither is talented enough for a team to put up with their circus. So quarterbacking a team to the Super Bowl is not talented enough for a player who has not violated any laws or league rules? Worst to 1st. Curse Reversed!
(02-20-2019, 09:53 PM)Bullseye Wrote:(02-20-2019, 09:33 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: 1. I'm talking NFL accomplishments, not college. If you want to debate football accomplishments below the NFL level, there are any number of college and high school boards.1. Of course you dont want to discuss prior accomplishments before he goes to the league he got blackballed in. It wouldnt be a contest 1. I am only concerned about NFL accomplishments on an NFL board. If were talking about college accomplishments, I'm sure we could bring such stalwarts like Johnny Manziel, Andre Ware, and Archie Griffin into the discussion. But since we are talking about the NFL, and since those guys, like Tebow, accomplished jack [BLEEP] in the NFL, they aren't worth discussing, just like Tebow if you didn't insist on bringing him into a discussion that did not mention him. 2. That is precisely my point! Denver had just spent a 1st round pick on Tebow two years earlier. if Tebow were performing like a competent NFL QB, they wouldn't have bothered bringing in Manning. They would have let Tebow continue to develop. Instead, they saw first hand what just about everyone else could see: Tebow sucks. 3. No...you didn't. Not even close. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...waJo00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...boTi00.htm 4. Failed to do the job?!? Three points from winning a Super Bowl as opposed to never getting there? Okay...?!? 5. What in the world does Foles have to do with this conversation? You have introduced two QBs completely irrelevant to the discussion. If it will satisfy you, I will concede that Kaepernick is not as good as Foles on the basis of not being able to win a Super Bowl. Of course, if you apply that logic to the population of QBs as a whole, you would get some questionable results, like Trent Dilfer being a better QB than Dan Marino and Brad Johnson being better than Jim Kelly. 6. The point about players other than Kaepernick kneeling. (02-20-2019, 09:42 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Oh for crying out loud. Tebow and Kap are exactly the same; neither is talented enough for a team to put up with their circus. So quarterbacking a team to the Super Bowl is not talented enough for a player who has not violated any laws or league rules? [/quote] 1. Exactly, we are talking about 2 guys and you want to bring in 3 other guys irrelevant to the discussion. Oh wait 2. Why would a team want to bring in a top 5 QB all time, just cleared healthy, and still in his prime? The guy that set the TD record, MVP, and helped lead them to 2 SBs and win one. Is this really a question? 3. Already posted above where he was outdoing Elway in the same amount of games early in their respected careers 4. Yes failed to do the job that 2 guys you brought up did. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson 5. But apply even more logic, did those guys win SB MVP? 6. Whoosh ![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7qDSOvfaCO9b3MlO/giphy.gif)
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