Oh no, I'm not anywhere close to the level of intellectual heights you guys attained. Philosophy students the world over for generations to come will ponder the minutiae of your pontifications to find ever greater clarity and wisdom on the very meaning of all existence. I forsee that your birth shall be marked and revered along with, nay, even to superceed the giants of our history, men known by merely their first name like Jesus, Elvis, Abraham, Martin, and John. Men who by their lives left us great inspiration and by  their deaths left us all simply a little less. Press onward with your quest young knight, greatness and conquest shall be yours in the Great Message Board Crusade. Honor and Glory!

You have many contacts among the lumberjacks
To get you facts when someone attacks your imagination
But nobody has any respect, anyway they already expect you to all give a check
To tax-deductible charity organizations  

You've been with the professors and they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read it's well known.
But there's something happening here but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Ballad of A Thin Man
  Bob Dylan

If Bob Dylan knew that you were using his lyrics to discuss politics, he'd probably tell you that you were taking his music way too seriously.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Sorry, but this is mostly nonsense.

Trump has done no damage to the country so far, unless you count the insane Democrat response as his fault, and considering how they treated Bush and Romney (and Kavanaugh), an insane response was probably waiting for any Pub president. Warren wants to start a race war by promising reparations, and a shooting war by confiscating guns. She voted to allow hospitals to let babies die without trying to keep them alive (and yes, some states now allow that, so it wasn't an unnecessary bill). I think your equating the two is deeply flawed.

You want the government to do things that work. Great. I want to win the lottery. I think my odds are better than yours.

Open minded? What leftist idea should we be open minded about? Destroying the economy through socialism? Destroying the economy through "Green" totalitarian laws? Letting babies die after they are born? Maybe you wan to defend open borders?

I have not joined a team. I was opposed to Trump. But I have seen him do a lot of good for the country, more than I would have hoped from any Pub candidate. I am a fan of Trump because his policies so far, not because he's a Pub, or because of MAGA, or for any other reason.

So I'm going to take my own advice, and instead of counterattacking your post, instead just ask a few questions.  

1. What, in your opinion, is the reason some people adopt a "left-wing" political position?  

2. Are you at all concerned about the federal budget deficit?  

3. Do you think there was ever a case where "liberals" were right and "conservatives" were wrong?   In other words, have liberals ever done anything good?   

4. When you post in this message board, do you care about whether you can actually change anyone's mind about anything?   Do you think it's possible to change anyone's mind?   Why do you post political arguments here?   What's the point?

Good questions. Note that my response to Sammy was to ask him what particular policies of Trump he considered "right wing." I still haven't got an answer, but that in itself is a telling response.

1. Two reasons. First are a contingent of people who consider themselves victims and want someone to use force to redress their suffering. The other group are the elitist experts who know better than the "deplorables" who just want to run their own lives. Basically, the Left wants to use the guns of government to force people to do what they deem correct behavior.

2. Absolutely. However, there is no one electable who will do anything about it. It's as if I were dying of an incurable disease. Complaining about it solve nothing.

3. The clean air and clean water acts were good. There are still a few environmental issues where I think the Left is right. The problem here is that 95% of the current environmentalist alarmism is wrong. DeSantis claims to be for the environment. I hope he addresses the problems with the Everglades and Florida springs.

4. SOMETHING SAID ON THE INTERNET WAS WRONG! I certainly don't expect to change the mind of the person I'm replying to, but maybe others will view things differently after reading what I wrote. Also, others who agree with me might find my arguments useful in their later discussions.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

You have many contacts among the lumberjacks
To get you facts when someone attacks your imagination
But nobody has any respect, anyway they already expect you to all give a check
To tax-deductible charity organizations  

You've been with the professors and they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read it's well known.
But there's something happening here but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Ballad of A Thin Man
  Bob Dylan

If Bob Dylan knew that you were using his lyrics to discuss politics, he'd probably tell you that you were taking his music way too seriously.

My dear boy, your philosophical discourse transcends mere politics. Why, it is the very essence of being! I dare to ask, without it could we in fact exist at all? A matter for the great minds indeed.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

If Bob Dylan knew that you were using his lyrics to discuss politics, he'd probably tell you that you were taking his music way too seriously.

My dear boy, your philosophical discourse transcends mere politics. Why, it is the very essence of being! I dare to ask, without it could we in fact exist at all? A matter for the great minds indeed.

Why don't you just hit the ignore button on him. You two clearly are in some kind of lovers quarrel and can't even seem to stay on topic for one second when replying to each other.

---

If Bob Dylan knew that you were using his lyrics to discuss politics, he'd probably tell you that you were taking his music way too seriously.

My dear boy, your philosophical discourse transcends mere politics. Why, it is the very essence of being! I dare to ask, without it could we in fact exist at all? A matter for the great minds indeed.

Attached Files

  XgtJTMj_d.jpg (Size: 43.79 KB / Downloads: 118)

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

My dear boy, your philosophical discourse transcends mere politics. Why, it is the very essence of being! I dare to ask, without it could we in fact exist at all? A matter for the great minds indeed.

Why don't you just hit the ignore button on him. You two clearly are in some kind of lovers quarrel and can't even seem to stay on topic for one second when replying to each other.

You uhhh, did see the name a' dis here thread?

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Why don't you just hit the ignore button on him. You two clearly are in some kind of lovers quarrel and can't even seem to stay on topic for one second when replying to each other.

You uhhh, did see the name a' dis here thread?

I was kinda obligated to reply as I was named by the person starting the thread.  What about you?

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

You uhhh, did see the name a' dis here thread?

I was kinda obligated to reply as I was named by the person starting the thread.  What about you?

The question was directed at me.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I think you may have been whooshed by the pun.

Poe's Law.

Ah yes, Poe's Law. The last defense for those who insist their whooshing was unfair and doesn't count.

---

Poe's Law.

Ah yes, Poe's Law. The last defense for those who insist their whooshing was unfair and doesn't count.

It's cool, I just deal with other folks who actually took the position that the best way for peace is for the USA to destroy its nuclear arsenal. "America First" after all.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Except I have actually seen him take this approach. It may have been your intent to use the same thought process in the beginning but you definitely do not post with this so called shared mindset. Your posts used to be well thought out with two sided viewpoints that you seem to straddle, albeit very long winded. Now your posts are anti-Republican and anti-Trump with no room for discussion.

Right.  I tried being more Socratic and tried to present both sides but it didn't seem to be changing anyone's mind or telling anyone things they didn't already know. I didn't get any positive feedback for it.  So now I figure I should just speak from the gut more. And my gut hates Trump's guts, rationally or not.

This is like beating your head against a brick wall. Most here are set in their ways and are unwilling to listen to a POV that deviates from theirs. I have learned a lot from folks here. I may not agree with them but I have had my eyes opened to things I wouldn't have had I not been willing to at least listen (or in this case, read). Most here are not willing to listen. I've made my peace with it and just try to enjoy the discussion.

---

I don't know why you wouldn't consider Obama's overtures to both Cuba, and Iran as negotiating with a hostile country. They have been, and still are.

To be blunt, I think Trump is trying to one-up Obama's Iran Nuclear deal by pursuing an even bolder North Korea Nuclear deal.  Good, the less Nuclear rouge states the better off we all are. Get this, I recognize Obama was as far left as Trump is right. I see it, but you have to be able to look from the middle to recognize it. Most people can't do that, and it doesn't make them bad people ... They are far more normal than I am.

Trump is not "far right," he's a centrist. It's the center that has moved away from his policy. Is supporting Israel "far right" now? Is defending the border? Is putting originalist judges in SCOTUS? Is pulling troops out of Syria and Afghanistan "far right"? Passing the first Step act? The only thing you could say about Trump in that direction is that he won't submit to the blackmail of the Left like Bush did.

Trump is not center, left or right. He is not consumed with ideology, he's consumed only with himself. What drives him is adoration and applause, and to that end he's found a group of people that are willing to give him an endless supply of both when he says the things they want to hear.

---

Trump is not "far right," he's a centrist. It's the center that has moved away from his policy. Is supporting Israel "far right" now? Is defending the border? Is putting originalist judges in SCOTUS? Is pulling troops out of Syria and Afghanistan "far right"? Passing the first Step act? The only thing you could say about Trump in that direction is that he won't submit to the blackmail of the Left like Bush did.

Trump is not center, left or right. He is not consumed with ideology, he's consumed only with himself. What drives him is adoration and applause, and to that end he's found a group of people that are willing to give him an endless supply of both when he says the things they want to hear.

You could very well be right about Trump, although claiming to know exactly how he thinks is absurd. 

What he says is meaningless. He's a salesman first, and I treat anything he says the same way I would treat a car salesman. But I will applaud him for his policy decisions and results, which have been better than any recent former president's first two years (going back at least to Kennedy).

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

So I'm going to take my own advice, and instead of counterattacking your post, instead just ask a few questions.  

1. What, in your opinion, is the reason some people adopt a "left-wing" political position?  

2. Are you at all concerned about the federal budget deficit?  

3. Do you think there was ever a case where "liberals" were right and "conservatives" were wrong?   In other words, have liberals ever done anything good?   

4. When you post in this message board, do you care about whether you can actually change anyone's mind about anything?   Do you think it's possible to change anyone's mind?   Why do you post political arguments here?   What's the point?

Good questions. Note that my response to Sammy was to ask him what particular policies of Trump he considered "right wing." I still haven't got an answer, but that in itself is a telling response.

1. Two reasons. First are a contingent of people who consider themselves victims and want someone to use force to redress their suffering. The other group are the elitist experts who know better than the "deplorables" who just want to run their own lives. Basically, the Left wants to use the guns of government to force people to do what they deem correct behavior.

2. Absolutely. However, there is no one electable who will do anything about it. It's as if I were dying of an incurable disease. Complaining about it solve nothing.

3. The clean air and clean water acts were good. There are still a few environmental issues where I think the Left is right. The problem here is that 95% of the current environmentalist alarmism is wrong. DeSantis claims to be for the environment. I hope he addresses the problems with the Everglades and Florida springs.

4. SOMETHING SAID ON THE INTERNET WAS WRONG! I certainly don't expect to change the mind of the person I'm replying to, but maybe others will view things differently after reading what I wrote. Also, others who agree with me might find my arguments useful in their later discussions.

So I know Trump has repealed a lot of regulations.   Are there any regulations in particular that he has repealed that are your favorites?   I mean, what regulations do you most appreciate his repealing?  

Also, what do you think will be the end result of our running trillion dollar deficits?   How do you see the end game there?   My opinion: we will eventually have to monetize the debt, and that will cause hyperinflation.  

From your answer to #4, it seems like you see your role here as bolstering your fellow conservatives, and definitely not changing anyone's mind.  I would encourage you to go over to the liberal echo chamber at the Huffington post, and talk to those extreme left wing socialist progressives in the comments.  They are really clueless, and in dire need of some basic facts.  We need to defend capitalism.  I think you'd do a lot more good over there than you can do here.  Do it gently.  On this message board, you are only bolstering half a dozen people.  You're wasting your horsepower.  Over there, you can actually engage with thousands of extreme left wing progressives.    

I really miss William F Buckley.  He brought an intellectual rigor to the political debate.  Now, it's all just low-grade simplistic talking points.

---

Good questions. Note that my response to Sammy was to ask him what particular policies of Trump he considered "right wing." I still haven't got an answer, but that in itself is a telling response.

1. Two reasons. First are a contingent of people who consider themselves victims and want someone to use force to redress their suffering. The other group are the elitist experts who know better than the "deplorables" who just want to run their own lives. Basically, the Left wants to use the guns of government to force people to do what they deem correct behavior.

2. Absolutely. However, there is no one electable who will do anything about it. It's as if I were dying of an incurable disease. Complaining about it solve nothing.

3. The clean air and clean water acts were good. There are still a few environmental issues where I think the Left is right. The problem here is that 95% of the current environmentalist alarmism is wrong. DeSantis claims to be for the environment. I hope he addresses the problems with the Everglades and Florida springs.

4. SOMETHING SAID ON THE INTERNET WAS WRONG! I certainly don't expect to change the mind of the person I'm replying to, but maybe others will view things differently after reading what I wrote. Also, others who agree with me might find my arguments useful in their later discussions.

1. So I know Trump has repealed a lot of regulations.   Are there any regulations in particular that he has repealed that are your favorites?   I mean, what regulations do you most appreciate his repealing?  

2. Also, what do you think will be the end result of our running trillion dollar deficits?   How do you see the end game there?   My opinion: we will eventually have to monetize the debt, and that will cause hyperinflation.  

3. From your answer to #4, it seems like you see your role here as bolstering your fellow conservatives, and definitely not changing anyone's mind.  I would encourage you to go over to the liberal echo chamber at the Huffington post, and talk to those extreme left wing socialist progressives in the comments.  They are really clueless, and in dire need of some basic facts.  We need to defend capitalism.  I think you'd do a lot more good over there than you can do here.  Do it gently.  On this message board, you are only bolstering half a dozen people.  You're wasting your horsepower.  Over there, you can actually engage with thousands of extreme left wing progressives.    

4. I really miss William F Buckley.  He brought an intellectual rigor to the political debate.  Now, it's all just low-grade simplistic talking points.

1. I'm not familiar with every regulation that Trump has overturned, but I do applaud his overturning the regulations that would force the shutdown of coal-fired power plants. With the lower cost of natural gas those plants will eventually be replaced anyway, but it should be done so in a sane manner by just replacing plants at the end of their life cycle. I also applaud the overturning of the power grab that claimed every drainage ditch and flood-control pond as Federal water. Add in kudos for overturning of the assumption of guilt of male students required by the previous Dept. of Education.

In general, I oppose any regulation that was not specifically passed by congress, since "regulation" is almost always a Newspeak way of saying "law that makes something that was legal yesterday into a crime." Turning someone into a criminal should not be a purview of the unelected bureaucracy. So consider my position as blanket approval of any action by anyone who overturns a regulation that was not passed into law.

2. I'd guess that it would be a combination of your theory of inflating the money supply to pay for unfunded mandates along with just not paying the creditors. I believe as you seem to that it will end up as a disaster. Note that there are economists who claim the debt is no big deal. I hope I'm wrong and they're right.

3. Do you really think the posters at the leftist echo chamber would ever admit to a fact they disagree with? I enjoy posting here because the posters are invested in football first, and politics second. No way I'd go to argue with a strident leftist.

4. There are such people still around. They are shouted down by the social media mob and the leftist press, so one rarely hears them.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Good questions. Note that my response to Sammy was to ask him what particular policies of Trump he considered "right wing." I still haven't got an answer, but that in itself is a telling response.

1. Two reasons. First are a contingent of people who consider themselves victims and want someone to use force to redress their suffering. The other group are the elitist experts who know better than the "deplorables" who just want to run their own lives. Basically, the Left wants to use the guns of government to force people to do what they deem correct behavior.

2. Absolutely. However, there is no one electable who will do anything about it. It's as if I were dying of an incurable disease. Complaining about it solve nothing.

3. The clean air and clean water acts were good. There are still a few environmental issues where I think the Left is right. The problem here is that 95% of the current environmentalist alarmism is wrong. DeSantis claims to be for the environment. I hope he addresses the problems with the Everglades and Florida springs.

4. SOMETHING SAID ON THE INTERNET WAS WRONG! I certainly don't expect to change the mind of the person I'm replying to, but maybe others will view things differently after reading what I wrote. Also, others who agree with me might find my arguments useful in their later discussions.

So I know Trump has repealed a lot of regulations.   Are there any regulations in particular that he has repealed that are your favorites?   I mean, what regulations do you most appreciate his repealing?  

Also, what do you think will be the end result of our running trillion dollar deficits?   How do you see the end game there?   My opinion: we will eventually have to monetize the debt, and that will cause hyperinflation.  

From your answer to #4, it seems like you see your role here as bolstering your fellow conservatives, and definitely not changing anyone's mind.  I would encourage you to go over to the liberal echo chamber at the Huffington post, and talk to those extreme left wing socialist progressives in the comments.  They are really clueless, and in dire need of some basic facts.  We need to defend capitalism.  I think you'd do a lot more good over there than you can do here.  Do it gently.  On this message board, you are only bolstering half a dozen people.  You're wasting your horsepower.  Over there, you can actually engage with thousands of extreme left wing progressives.    

I really miss William F Buckley.  He brought an intellectual rigor to the political debate.  Now, it's all just low-grade simplistic talking points.

That would never work.  The extremes on both sides have their minds made up and nothing is going to change that.  I have attempted to discuss things in a civil matter on sites like that, most recently the Covington Catholic incident.  Even with video evidence dispelling the "kid taunts native American" notion there was no changing their minds.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

My dear boy, your philosophical discourse transcends mere politics. Why, it is the very essence of being! I dare to ask, without it could we in fact exist at all? A matter for the great minds indeed.

I don't know whats in that there attachment. But I ain't downloading nothing. Trying to give my computer the trap with all your 'open border, anti-virus free' downloads.

---

Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 

Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.

 

I don't know whats in that there attachment. But I ain't downloading nothing. Trying to give my computer the trap with all your 'open border, anti-virus free' downloads.

sorry I'm still learning how this thing works to my first time trying to post an image in a long time.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

So I know Trump has repealed a lot of regulations.   Are there any regulations in particular that he has repealed that are your favorites?   I mean, what regulations do you most appreciate his repealing?  

Also, what do you think will be the end result of our running trillion dollar deficits?   How do you see the end game there?   My opinion: we will eventually have to monetize the debt, and that will cause hyperinflation.  

From your answer to #4, it seems like you see your role here as bolstering your fellow conservatives, and definitely not changing anyone's mind.  I would encourage you to go over to the liberal echo chamber at the Huffington post, and talk to those extreme left wing socialist progressives in the comments.  They are really clueless, and in dire need of some basic facts.  We need to defend capitalism.  I think you'd do a lot more good over there than you can do here.  Do it gently.  On this message board, you are only bolstering half a dozen people.  You're wasting your horsepower.  Over there, you can actually engage with thousands of extreme left wing progressives.    

I really miss William F Buckley.  He brought an intellectual rigor to the political debate.  Now, it's all just low-grade simplistic talking points.

That would never work.  The extremes on both sides have their minds made up and nothing is going to change that.  I have attempted to discuss things in a civil matter on sites like that, most recently the Covington Catholic incident.  Even with video evidence dispelling the "kid taunts native American" notion there was no changing their minds.

I don't think you can change anyone's mind right off the bat, but you can plant a seed that will lead them to a more reasonable position in the future.  Especially if you approach them in a mild manner.   

Obviously, you never change anyone's mind by opposing and attacking them.   All you do is back them into a corner and make them defensive.  There's an old saying, "No one ever wins an argument."  

I think if we're ever going to overcome the polarization in this country, we have to be willing to engage each other in a polite, open-minded way.  I don't mean that you have to try to adopt the other person's viewpoint.  What I mean by "open-minded" is that we give the other person credit for sincerity, and try to understand why they feel the way they do.

---

That would never work.  The extremes on both sides have their minds made up and nothing is going to change that.  I have attempted to discuss things in a civil matter on sites like that, most recently the Covington Catholic incident.  Even with video evidence dispelling the "kid taunts native American" notion there was no changing their minds.

I don't think you can change anyone's mind right off the bat, but you can plant a seed that will lead them to a more reasonable position in the future.  Especially if you approach them in a mild manner.   

Obviously, you never change anyone's mind by opposing and attacking them.   All you do is back them into a corner and make them defensive.  There's an old saying, "No one ever wins an argument."  

I think if we're ever going to overcome the polarization in this country, we have to be willing to engage each other in a polite, open-minded way.  I don't mean that you have to try to adopt the other person's viewpoint.  What I mean by "open-minded" is that we give the other person credit for sincerity, and try to understand why they feel the way they do.

Unfortunately, technology has irrevocably changed that. We can now anonymously denigrate someone from the palm of our hand, from anywhere in the world. We are provided the tool to attack, and echo chamber safe spaces in which to retreat, at the touch of a finger. The art of debate and the spirit of magnanimity are forever lost. Snot face.

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