As if this wasn't going to happen anyway.  What in depth reporting.

Agreed.  It seems like some reporter drew the short straw and landed a Jacksonville story, and rather than doing research, he just found an John O column from the website and repurposed it.

Yan had a chance to take $19m per and turned it down.  He and his agent have overvalued him, but there are teams out there flush with cap space that would be more than willing to meet his demands.  The team will get some value for him.  I don't think they'll get a 1st, but if some front office is silly enough to offer that up for him, they should take it and run.  Seems like a package deal with a 2 and possibly a 4 seems more likely.

He's 24. Plays a premium position. Hasn't hit his prime yet and you think they get a 2nd and 4th for him?

The worst case scenario here is starting to happen and yet you can't see the writing on the wall. The Jags finally hit on a pass rusher and now it's "well we will just trade him for a 2nd".... Then next season you will say "pass rusher is one of our top needs. Can't have just Allen."

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With just a month until the "legal tampering period" it's looking increasingly increasingly likely...

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Yan still seems pretty adamant that he's out.

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Agreed.  It seems like some reporter drew the short straw and landed a Jacksonville story, and rather than doing research, he just found an John O column from the website and repurposed it.

Yan had a chance to take $19m per and turned it down.  He and his agent have overvalued him, but there are teams out there flush with cap space that would be more than willing to meet his demands.  The team will get some value for him.  I don't think they'll get a 1st, but if some front office is silly enough to offer that up for him, they should take it and run.  Seems like a package deal with a 2 and possibly a 4 seems more likely.

He's 24. Plays a premium position. Hasn't hit his prime yet and you think they get a 2nd and 4th for him?

The worst case scenario here is starting to happen and yet you can't see the writing on the wall. The Jags finally hit on a pass rusher and now it's "well we will just trade him for a 2nd".... Then next season you will say "pass rusher is one of our top needs. Can't have just Allen."

Bingo!! Never ending cycle. We were locked in with Ramsey and Bouye, now we need a CB in the draft. Its like we are never going to keep the players we draft, even though they turn out to be good. Its starting to seems like they like the mock drafts or being very active in the draft because that's how it has always been.

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Yan still seems pretty adamant that he's out.

Wouldn't you?

All these players who were worse than him got paid. Ramsey bolted. You have to play another game in London and this franchise looks like it has zero clue what it's doing.

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He's 24. Plays a premium position. Hasn't hit his prime yet and you think they get a 2nd and 4th for him?

The worst case scenario here is starting to happen and yet you can't see the writing on the wall. The Jags finally hit on a pass rusher and now it's "well we will just trade him for a 2nd".... Then next season you will say "pass rusher is one of our top needs. Can't have just Allen."

Bingo!! Never ending cycle. We were locked in with Ramsey and Bouye, now we need a CB in the draft. Its like we are never going to keep the players we draft, even though they turn out to be good. Its starting to seems like they like the mock drafts or being very active in the draft because that's how it has always been.

You see the analytics say a guy in his prime that plays rush end isn't worth keeping because they didn't stop the run.  Nevermind that we didn't play in pin your ears back mode all year and didn't have a way to leverage our few bright spots.  We must be mediocre and continue to be other teams developmental roster.

Yes making fun of analytics if we don't retain a young talented person.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

Guys, kiss the Yan years good bye. It’s over. It’s all about Allen now, and possibly adding more depth in the draft.

Campbell will have another Paul Spicer type year, and our slime will be just fine.

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I can't wait to see all the whining going on when it's Allen and Smoot starting at DE in 2 years, when we could/should have Ngakoue and Allen for the next 4-5+ years.

I [BLEEP] swear if we lose Ngakoue, I'm [BLEEP] done.

I honestly can't believe there's people in this fan base that actually want to, or are even entertaining the thought of trading him... You guys act like players like him grow on trees or something.. 

We straight up fluked into getting Allen at #7.. Good luck having that happen again any time soon.

edit: Also can't wait to see the drop off from Allen when he's being asked to do it all by himself very soon.

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I can't wait to see all the whining going on when it's Allen and Smoot starting at DE in 2 years, when we could/should have Ngakoue and Allen for the next 4-5+ years.

I [BLEEP] swear if we lose Ngakoue, I'm [BLEEP] done.

I honestly can't believe there's people in this fan base that actually want to, or are even entertaining the thought of trading him... You guys act like players like him grow on trees or something.. 

We straight up fluked into getting Allen at #7.. Good luck having that happen again any time soon.

edit: Also can't wait to see the drop off from Allen when he's being asked to do it all by himself very soon.

Dave already said he wants to keep Yan and he is the number 1 priority so if he we dont keep him its because he dont want to be here

---

I can't wait to see all the whining going on when it's Allen and Smoot starting at DE in 2 years, when we could/should have Ngakoue and Allen for the next 4-5+ years.

I [BLEEP] swear if we lose Ngakoue, I'm [BLEEP] done.

I honestly can't believe there's people in this fan base that actually want to, or are even entertaining the thought of trading him... You guys act like players like him grow on trees or something.. 

We straight up fluked into getting Allen at #7.. Good luck having that happen again any time soon.

edit: Also can't wait to see the drop off from Allen when he's being asked to do it all by himself very soon.

Dave already said he wants to keep Yan and he is the number 1 priority so if he we dont keep him its because he dont want to be here

You give him $66-67m guaranteed and $21-22m per and I bet his tone changes and he signs that deal real quick.

He don't want to be here cause hes watched this stupid franchise throw boat loads of cash at terrible players, all while trying to low ball the ones who actually earned it.

---

I can't wait to see all the whining going on when it's Allen and Smoot starting at DE in 2 years, when we could/should have Ngakoue and Allen for the next 4-5+ years.

I [BLEEP] swear if we lose Ngakoue, I'm [BLEEP] done.

I honestly can't believe there's people in this fan base that actually want to, or are even entertaining the thought of trading him... You guys act like players like him grow on trees or something.. 

We straight up fluked into getting Allen at #7.. Good luck having that happen again any time soon.

edit: Also can't wait to see the drop off from Allen when he's being asked to do it all by himself very soon.

Dave already said he wants to keep Yan and he is the number 1 priority so if he we dont keep him its because he dont want to be here

Well if Dave said it...

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Agreed.  It seems like some reporter drew the short straw and landed a Jacksonville story, and rather than doing research, he just found an John O column from the website and repurposed it.

Yan had a chance to take $19m per and turned it down.  He and his agent have overvalued him, but there are teams out there flush with cap space that would be more than willing to meet his demands.  The team will get some value for him.  I don't think they'll get a 1st, but if some front office is silly enough to offer that up for him, they should take it and run.  Seems like a package deal with a 2 and possibly a 4 seems more likely.

He's 24. Plays a premium position. Hasn't hit his prime yet and you think they get a 2nd and 4th for him?

The worst case scenario here is starting to happen and yet you can't see the writing on the wall. The Jags finally hit on a pass rusher and now it's "well we will just trade him for a 2nd".... Then next season you will say "pass rusher is one of our top needs. Can't have just Allen."

The problem for the acquiring team is that they not only have to give up the draft pick, they also have to give him a big money contract.   So if they have to give up a first round pick in the deal, that's probably too expensive for the acquiring team.  

I want to keep the guy, because for one thing I'm tired of the rebuilding.  But I wouldn't be heart broken if they trade him for something like a 2nd and a 4th.

---

I can't wait to see all the whining going on when it's Allen and Smoot starting at DE in 2 years, when we could/should have Ngakoue and Allen for the next 4-5+ years.

I [BLEEP] swear if we lose Ngakoue, I'm [BLEEP] done.

I honestly can't believe there's people in this fan base that actually want to, or are even entertaining the thought of trading him... You guys act like players like him grow on trees or something.. 

We straight up fluked into getting Allen at #7.. Good luck having that happen again any time soon.

edit: Also can't wait to see the drop off from Allen when he's being asked to do it all by himself very soon.

Completely agree, though at this stage I have no faith in the ability of this FO to keep Yan.

Do people remember how long we went without a credible pass rusher after Brackens?

Hugh Douglas?
Bobby McCray?
Reggie Hayward?
Aaron Kampman?
Derrick Harvey?
Quentin Groves?
Tyson Alualu?

With a one year hiccup of Bobby McCray (whom we promptly got rid of), that's 2003-2015-a DOZEN YEARS-without having a viable pass rusher.

Rinse and repeat at WR.  In fact, this team had never drafted anything close to a dominant WR in team history until Blackmon, but he had such severe chemical dependence issues, he lasted about a season in total before he washed out of the league.  Next was Allen Robinson, and he walked away from the organization.

Remember Soward?  Williams?  Matt Jones?  We went from 2006-2014-that's NINE SEASONS-without a 1000 yard receiver.  Nearly a decade without competence and sobriety for a position that so many say is a dime a dozen.

Glad you mentioned fluking into Allen.  That's one of many reasons why I disliked Ketchman's oversimplified "picks not players" philosophy so much.  You utilize picks in the hopes of getting players like Yannick Ngakoue and Jalen Ramsey.  Those players are the exception league wide, not the rule.  When you get them, you keep them as long as possible and as long as they are young, healthy and productive.  You don't trade them away or let them walk away at the first sign of success or disagreement like we did.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I can't wait to see all the whining going on when it's Allen and Smoot starting at DE in 2 years, when we could/should have Ngakoue and Allen for the next 4-5+ years.

I [BLEEP] swear if we lose Ngakoue, I'm [BLEEP] done.

I honestly can't believe there's people in this fan base that actually want to, or are even entertaining the thought of trading him... You guys act like players like him grow on trees or something.. 

We straight up fluked into getting Allen at #7.. Good luck having that happen again any time soon.

edit: Also can't wait to see the drop off from Allen when he's being asked to do it all by himself very soon.

XD

Allen is a much better pass rusher than Yan, he even got more sacks in like half the playing time. Heck Smoot got like 6 sacks in a third of Yan's playing time. You act like Ngakoue is elite, he is nowhere near elite and he is at best vs the run.

All this crying for a guy with 8 sacks in a whole season lol.

---

I can't wait to see all the whining going on when it's Allen and Smoot starting at DE in 2 years, when we could/should have Ngakoue and Allen for the next 4-5+ years.

I [BLEEP] swear if we lose Ngakoue, I'm [BLEEP] done.

I honestly can't believe there's people in this fan base that actually want to, or are even entertaining the thought of trading him... You guys act like players like him grow on trees or something.. 

We straight up fluked into getting Allen at #7.. Good luck having that happen again any time soon.

edit: Also can't wait to see the drop off from Allen when he's being asked to do it all by himself very soon.

Dave already said he wants to keep Yan and he is the number 1 priority so if he we dont keep him its because he dont want to be here

Caldwell also said Ramsey wasn't going to be traded.

They had time to get the deal done and they didn't do it.

Question:  Who was the last stud player-a Pro Bowl caliber player-the Jaguars drafted and actually signed to a second contract?

Hint:  You have to go back to the Shack Harris era to find him. 

That speaks volumes.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Dave already said he wants to keep Yan and he is the number 1 priority so if he we dont keep him its because he dont want to be here

Question:  Who was the last stud player-a Pro Bowl caliber player-the Jaguars drafted and actually signed to a second contract?

Hint:  You have to go back to the Shack Harris era to find him. 

That speaks volumes.

Telvin Smith, so there was the one under Caldwell, but your point still stands.

---

I can't wait to see all the whining going on when it's Allen and Smoot starting at DE in 2 years, when we could/should have Ngakoue and Allen for the next 4-5+ years.

I [BLEEP] swear if we lose Ngakoue, I'm [BLEEP] done.

I honestly can't believe there's people in this fan base that actually want to, or are even entertaining the thought of trading him... You guys act like players like him grow on trees or something.. 

We straight up fluked into getting Allen at #7.. Good luck having that happen again any time soon.

edit: Also can't wait to see the drop off from Allen when he's being asked to do it all by himself very soon.

XD

Allen is a much better pass rusher than Yan, he even got more sacks in like half the playing time. Heck Smoot got like 6 sacks in a third of Yan's playing time. You act like Ngakoue is elite, he is nowhere near elite and he is aaverage at best vs the run.

All this crying for a guy with 8 sacks in a whole season lol.

Even taking your comparative assessment of the abilities of Yan and Allen at face value, Allen becomes less effective if he is the only pass rushing threat the team offers.  If the Jaguars allow Yan to walk and don't adequately replace him, Allen will face far more attention from opposing offenses.  He will get more double teams and teams will be able to scheme to reduce his impact.

History shows the best times in Jaguars history-and the best performers in the history of the league-happened when teams have multiple threats at a position.

in Jaguars history, in the early TC years, our passing game was great because we had two stud Ts in Boselli and Searcy (and a good swing T in Ben Coleman) and two stud WRs in Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell.  We had our strongest run defense during the JDR era when we had two stud DTs in Stroud and Henderson.  We had our strongest rushing attack when we had two stud RBs in FT and MJD.  In most of those cases, when one of each of those pairs left, the productivity fell off.

The same holds true for teams around the league.  Tom Brady's best statistical season was when he had two good WRs at his disposal in Randy Moss and Wes Welker.  Their DL was the best when they had studs along their front three in Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork.  The Chiefs won it all this year because they had four blazing fast WRs and another threat at TE.  The Ravens won their first Super Bowl by having two stud run stuffing DTs in Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa, who enabled Ray Lewis to roam freely at MLB.  That defense also offered three good pass rushers in DEs McCrary, Rob Burnett, and OLB Peter Boulware.  The Giants won their first Super Bowl in the Parcells era with two stud OLBs in Lawrence Taylor and Carl Banks, and Super Bowls in the Coughlin era with good pass rushers in Jason Pierre Paul and Michael Strahan and later Justin Tuck.  The Raiders won their last Super Bowl with a pair of stud CBs in Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes.  The examples are endless.  Amassing quality talent at a position makes that position a matchup advantage.

Finally, the fact Yan had only eight sacks does not tell the entire story about his ability.  First, he had a hamstring injury that hindered him for 4-5 games, even though he missed only one game.  Secondly, the team's run defense completely collapsed.  If teams decided to simply run the ball for a stretch of five weeks, you won't get too many sacks during that time.  Finally the team did not play with many leads.  The fact is, since he was drafted in 2016, he has been one of the most productive pass rushers in the league.  If you think Smoot is anywhere near Yannick Ngakoue, I'm not sure where else this conversation can go.

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Question:  Who was the last stud player-a Pro Bowl caliber player-the Jaguars drafted and actually signed to a second contract?

Hint:  You have to go back to the Shack Harris era to find him. 

That speaks volumes.

Telvin Smith, so there was the one under Caldwell, but your point still stands.

Forgot about him.  Mea culpa.

But where is he now?

Why don't the most productive players want to remain with this team?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I can't wait to see all the whining going on when it's Allen and Smoot starting at DE in 2 years, when we could/should have Ngakoue and Allen for the next 4-5+ years.

I [BLEEP] swear if we lose Ngakoue, I'm [BLEEP] done.

I honestly can't believe there's people in this fan base that actually want to, or are even entertaining the thought of trading him... You guys act like players like him grow on trees or something.. 

We straight up fluked into getting Allen at #7.. Good luck having that happen again any time soon.

edit: Also can't wait to see the drop off from Allen when he's being asked to do it all by himself very soon.

Rinse and repeat at WR.  In fact, this team had never drafted anything close to a dominant WR in team history until Blackmon, but he had such severe chemical dependence issues, he lasted about a season in total before he washed out of the league.  Next was Allen Robinson, and he walked away from the organization.

Remember Soward?  Williams?  Matt Jones?  We went from 2006-2014-that's NINE SEASONS-without a 1000 yard receiver.  Nearly a decade without competence and sobriety for a position that so many say is a dime a dozen.

Bad drafting doesn't mean WRs aren't a dime a dozen though.
In that span of us sucking at so many positions like pass rush and WR, other teams had plenty of playmakers at those positions.

Shack, Gene, and Caldwell have not done well. Although Caldwell drafted better than Gene and about on par with Shack, the Coughlin led FO made massive mistakes in retaining good selections and doubled down on bad ones.

Every year some team ends up drafting a really good WR, not always first rounders either.
Hell... we've been in QB purgatory forever too. Because of poor evaluation, scouting, and drafting.

It starts at the top. I still think WRs are a dime a dozen.

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Please everyone with your good arguments....  It is easy to draft QBs, Pass Rushers, Corner Backs and Offensive Lineman.  Now unfortunately, it is franchise ruining to not get the right ones and debilitating to watch them walk out the door for comp picks.

Edit:

And real salt on the wound is coming when just blaming Tom Coughlin for our woes doesn't work out.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

Please everyone with your good arguments....  It is easy to draft QBs, Pass Rushers, Corner Backs and Offensive Lineman.  Now unfortunately, it is franchise ruining to not get the right ones and debilitating to watch them walk out the door for comp picks.

Edit:

And real salt on the wound is coming when just blaming Tom Coughlin for our woes doesn't work out.

What's going to really sting is when the Jags let Yan walk and he signs with the Colts.

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